Buyer Request Full Refund Before Returning iPhone 5

[beng182]

Hi,

I've sold an iPhone 5 that was supposed to be unlocked. However, the phone was still blocked for some reasons with Bell.

It is my mistake and I totally assume it. I have already offered excuses to the buyer and I asked her to return the phone, then I would give her a full refund. I have 759 positive feedback (100%) and she only has 19 (83.3% due to a complaint of one buyer).

But, she requested the refund before returning the iPhone. She said that if I don't do that, she would ask PayPal to resolve the case.

As a seller, I know PayPal always take the buyer part. I was worried they would just take the money from me (again), and that I would also lose the phone. I felt like I had no choice so I decided to give the money back and to trust her.

The transfer process from my bank started yesterday. And the buyer no longer answer to me since then. I asked for a tracking number and so on.

I don't know if I did the right thing. What can I do about this situation?

Can you give me some advices please?

Thank you,

Geneviève

[recped]

You did the wrong thing!

PayPal or eBay would NEVER require you to issue a refund prior to receiving a return.

[beng182]

I do not trust eBay or PayPal a lot.

I had almost the same problem last year, and they took the money from me without warning.

They seem to be always on the buyer side.

That's why I felt stressed about the whole situation and prefered to trust the buyer but now I have doubt about her...

Do you know what could I do to correct this?

[cumos55]

The only words that protect a seller in such a situation is......

Return for Refund

[rose-dee]

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@bg182 wrote:

I do not trust eBay or PayPal a lot.

I had almost the same problem last year, and they took the money from me without warning.

They seem to be always on the buyer side.

That's why I felt stressed about the whole situation and prefered to trust the buyer but now I have doubt about her...

Do you know what could I do to correct this?

---

Well, I think it would be better to have trusted Paypal's procedures than to have immediately refunded, even if you made the error regarding the item. 

I know it doesn't help you now, but it might have been a good idea to tell the buyer that, because you made the mistake, you would reimburse her for the return shipping (or buy the label yourself).  At least you would be more likely to get the item back.  The buyer may not have the money to pay for tracking to return the phone, and now that she's got her refund, she has no incentive to follow through. 

It may be worth calling Paypal, to advise them that you refunded the buyer in full but that the buyer is now completely unresponsive and you have not been given any tracking information.  See what they suggest. 

If Paypal can't assist, continue to email the buyer through eBay messages, and if you get no response after a week or so, report the buyer to eBay and try that route. 

It seems you have nothing more to lose at this point, since you're already out the purchase price, you no longer have the item itself, and the refund you made will be counted as a defect anyway.  So you might as well see if Paypal or eBay can be of any help.

[recped]

---

@bg182 wrote:

I do not trust eBay or PayPal a lot.

I had almost the same problem last year, and they took the money from me without warning.

They seem to be always on the buyer side.

That's why I felt stressed about the whole situation and prefered to trust the buyer but now I have doubt about her...

Do you know what could I do to correct this?

---

They took the money from YOU but they did not give it to the buyer until the buyer could prove they returned the item. If the buyer was unable to do that then the funds would be returned to you.

What to do? Be VERY careful not to give this buyer any ideas, appealing to their honesty might work or it might just confirm to them they they now have the phone and the money and there is little if anything you can do about it.

[mr.elmwood]

---

@bg182 wrote:

Hi,

I've sold an iPhone 5 that was supposed to be unlocked. However, the phone was still blocked for some reasons with Bell.

It is my mistake and I totally assume it. I have already offered excuses to the buyer and I asked her to return the phone, then I would give her a full refund. I have 759 positive feedback (100%) and she only has 19 (83.3% due to a complaint of one buyer).

But, she requested the refund before returning the iPhone. She said that if I don't do that, she would ask PayPal to resolve the case.

As a seller, I know PayPal always take the buyer part. I was worried they would just take the money from me (again), and that I would also lose the phone. I felt like I had no choice so I decided to give the money back and to trust her.

The transfer process from my bank started yesterday. And the buyer no longer answer to me since then. I asked for a tracking number and so on.

I don't know if I did the right thing. What can I do about this situation?

Can you give me some advices please?

Thank you,

Geneviève

---

Paypal does NOT always take the buyers side.

Take the money and also lose the phone? You have done that on your own.

IF you had let this go to Paypal, they would have required the buyer to return it to you with tracking. Paypal would have been on your side to make sure you got the phone back.

I sure hope this works out the way you are doing it.

[beng182]

I noted the Serial and IMEI of the phone before selling it.

I have the option to declare it stolen if she doesn't send it back.

Then the IMEI would be blacklisted and phone would be unusable with almost no resale value.

At this point, I think I should let her know that.

What do you think?

[reallynicestamps]

Sounds like a bad idea to me.

Is it possible for you to send a prepaid shipping label 'to make return easier'?

[beng182]

Sorry about my ignorance, but do I buy this directly through PayPal and then ship it to her?

How does it work exactly?

[rose-dee]

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@bg182 wrote:

Sorry about my ignorance, but do I buy this directly through PayPal and then ship it to her?

How does it work exactly?

---

Normally I'd say that buying a prepaid label would be a decent idea, but you do need a buyer who is willing to communicate and to co-operate, and it sounds as if you have neither. 

The problem I can see with a prepaid label in this situation is that you might pay for it, only to find that you never hear from your buyer again (I assume she still hasn't contacted you?).  Then you'll have lost the phone, the money for the phone, and the money for the return shipping.  

I believe there is a way to buy a Paypal label but not have the cost debited from your account until the buyer gets it scanned at the Post Office (i.e. until the parcel is actually on its way).  I'm sorry, but I don't know the precise steps to do that.  However, that could still be a rather dubious proposition if you have an unresponsive buyer to begin with.  Your label may be floating around out there forever, with no action on her part. 

Personally, I'd phone Paypal first and see if they have any suggestions for getting the buyer to cooperate in returning the phone.  Who knows -- they may even try to contact her directly by email or telephone.  

Or if you're very, very lucky, they could decide to reverse the refund, and hold it until the buyer goes through the proper steps before releasing it to her.  If I were in your situation, that's what I'd suggest to Paypal, since they have all of the buyer's account information and personal/contact data and could debit her again (if she has a credit card or a balance in her Paypal account).

As I said earlier, you have nothing to lose at this point by trying Paypal, and I'd do this as soon as you possibly can.  The later you leave it, the harder it may be for Paypal to do anything for you.  Don't forget to emphasize the value of the item involved -- make sure they understand this isn't a minor loss. 

[pjcdn2005]

The transfer process from my bank started yesterday.

Have you asked your bank if they can stop the transfer?

[beng182]

Thank you to all of you for those informations.

The package is on it's way. I just got the tracking number. I hope it won't be an empty box LOL!

I just wrote to the girl again this morning.

I told her about the eBay rules (Return for refund).

I also told her that both eBay and PayPal were aware of the situation.

Finally I told her that I would take more serious actions if she wouldn't cooperate, since I have the serial number and IMEI (aka legal actions).

She responded to me more quickly than ever and went to the post office.

[steveyboy1969]

You're very lucky you had the phone returned an d the buyer was honest, but you shouldn't have refunded before the phone was in your hands. I did the same thing to avoid feedback extortion and lost my money and the item to a buyer who knew full well how to play the system, which is in the buyer's favour for certain. I had emails from the buyer specifically stating in plain English how she intended on keeping the item and getting her money back or else. Ebay did nothing, despite solid proof right on their very email system. I often wonder if getting the negative feedback would have been worth the anger I have over the buyers fraudulent purchase. I really don't know why Ebay is so hit-or-miss with their quality of service and their application of their rules. The have let me down in situations that should have been quite cut and dried while they helped out in situations that were not so clear.

[beng182]

I totally agree with you with all that you've said...

[recped]

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@steveyboy1969 wrote:

You're very lucky you had the phone returned an d the buyer was honest, but you shouldn't have refunded before the phone was in your hands. I did the same thing to avoid feedback extortion and lost my money and the item to a buyer who knew full well how to play the system, which is in the buyer's favour for certain. I had emails from the buyer specifically stating in plain English how she intended on keeping the item and getting her money back or else. Ebay did nothing, despite solid proof right on their very email system. I often wonder if getting the negative feedback would have been worth the anger I have over the buyers fraudulent purchase. I really don't know why Ebay is so hit-or-miss with their quality of service and their application of their rules. The have let me down in situations that should have been quite cut and dried while they helped out in situations that were not so clear.

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If you had stood your ground on this eBay would have removed any negative feedback given the apparent clear evidence of feedback extortion. Once you voluntarily refunded the money you can't expect eBay to bail you out, they make it quite clear that sellers should not issue refunds until after an item has been returned.

[jezannie369]

Why, in your heart, would any decent honest person make the buyer pay return shipping for an item that is not as decribed by the seller's fault? Sorry but I think this is DISGUSTING.