Fees on shipping charges rip off

[dutchman48]

How do people interpret this:

If you list on eBay.com

If you list on eBay.com and a US buyer purchases your item, your final value fee for shipping is calculated using the shipping service that the buyer chooses.

If you list on eBay.com and a Canadian or international (non US) buyer purchases your item, your final value fee for shipping is calculated using whichever service is less expensive, either:

• The first US shipping service in your listing that isn't express, or

• Your Canadian or express shipping service

  I think we are being overcharged by Ebay

[dutchman48]

Final value fees on shipping

Final values fees on shipping charges are calculated using the shipping service the buyer chooses.

However, when you offer an international or one-day shipping service and it's selected by your buyer, your final value fee for shipping is calculated using whichever service is less expensive, either:

• The first domestic service in your listing that isn't one-day, or

• Your international or one-day shipping service

  This is different from my shipping quote from policy in my original post.

[cumos55]

Calculating FVF on shipping internationally other then the US.

Part of the problem might relate to the following

(1) Seller lives in Canada.

(2) Seller lists on eBay.com

(3) Selling to US buyers is domestic

(4) Selling to Canadian buyers is international.

If shipping to Canadian buyers is $10  and to US buyers is $15 

If a sellers lists on eBay.com FVF on shipping is calculated using $15 as a base unless shipping is to a Canadian buyer.

If a seller lists on eBay.ca  FVF on shipping is calculated using $10 as a base

When a Canadian sellers lists on eBay.com .....For shipping to an international buyer   not the US or Canada,  the FVF on shipping  is based on the cost for domestic shipping which would be higher if one lists on eBay.com compared to eBay.ca

[cumos55]

Some buyers know how to deal with multiple purchases and not pay shipping as a total for each individual item paid.

Some buyers have problems....

and the problems may relate to whether a Canadian seller lists on eBay.com or eBay.ca

We have heard about multiple purchase glitches  and the determination of shipping cost....  buyers end up paying shipping as the sum of shipping for each item in the multiple purchase.

My approach is to refund.... as required.

Shipping is flat rate shipping   for Canadian purchases  and for US purchases.

Within Canada buyers that live close to me get a refund.

If a buyer pays shipping as a total for each item in a multiple purchase..... A refund is given.

Buyers ....in total....  that is all buyers.... pay more for shipping than the actual cost.... refunds come out of this total.... and situations where actual postage is more than postage... flat rate shipping... paid by a buyer....

With some buyers paying less than the actual shipping.

Shipping to Nunavut is an example.....  these buyers get a deal on shipping, while other buyer pay for this Nunavut deal.... Fortunately I have very few situations similar to this Nunavut situation... and that included remote locations in Newfoundland and British Columbia... and sometimes other provinces...

I do not worry about  problems relating ....to refunds .....  to a shipping cost higher than paid by a buyer.... or.. to refunds with total shipping on multiple purchases.

The bottom-line is that I have learned how to adjust and live with these ... eBayisms

[dutchman48]

I am sorry, but I would like to know why everyone is discussing shipping charges and not the subject at hand which is how Ebay calculates the FVF on the shipping charges and why it varies between the US and other international locations.

[cumos55]

The answer is most likely here...

One has to follow  the many routes identified.

(1) eBay has its rules as to how FVF is calculated.

(2) You are a Canadian seller.

(3) If you list on eBay.com... then, for a Canadian seller,  shipping to the US  is domestic.....  and this applies even though a seller lives in  Canada.... shipping within Canada,   is international

(4) If you list on eBay.ca... then shipping within Canada is domestic .... and all other countries, the US and elsewhere are international shipping

(5) If the cost of shipping outside of the domestic area  is lower than domestic shipping  then FVF is calculated using the lowest cost for shipping.

----------------------------------------------------

I have looked at many listings where a Canadian seller is listing on eBay.com.... and everything is presented in a non-logical manner..  with respect to shipping...

and even something as simple  as free shipping with a local pickup...  where a seller lives in Canada,  and local pickup is somewhere in the US.

Set up a few listings for eBay.ca  and then take the very same listings and set them up for eBay.com... be very careful and critical of what you are doing...

Now ask ... what is the cost for shipping when someone buys....    and then how does eBay determine the final FVF

and finally you may be close to understanding what happened in your situation....

[dutchman48]

What I am trying to find out is why Ebay charges FVF on shipping differently for international and domestic so it costs more for international. I have been listing on both for years and only started selling outside the US and Canada recently, hence my question and concern. It is not the shipping that is the issue as that is all set up properly on both sites as are the discounts.

I have a severe problem as stated earlier that on a domestic sale in the US and listed on .com, FVF on shipping are not charged per item on multiple purchases but on an international sale they charge the FVF on each individual item shipping, hence collecting more fees on shipping. That is a rip off and even the  CS billing supervisor can't explain it too me so it makes sense according to their policies.

The shipping costs are NOT the issue and work fine, it is the FVF on shipping that is the only issue. If I sell three items in the US and listed on .com, I pay 18¢ FVF on shipping. If I sell the same 3 items to Poland, I get charged 54¢ FVF on shipping even though it should be on the lowest domestic rate. It just does not take multiple purchases into consideration for the lowest domestic rate. That is my issue and no where in policy does it stste that that I could find or that the CS supervisor could find.

I don't know how much plainer I can put this.

[recped]

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@dutchman48 wrote:

I am sorry, but I would like to know why everyone is discussing shipping charges and not the subject at hand which is how Ebay calculates the FVF on the shipping charges and why it varies between the US and other international locations.

---

I've been trying but you haven't been elaborating on exactly what the problem is.

I fully understand you don't like the way eBay does it, neither do I but the way they do it is the way they do it. Unless they are calculating yours in a way which is different than everyone else I'm not clear what the problem is.

Maybe if you can give a specific example I can figure it out, something that shows the issue as you see it. The example you gave seems to be correct, correct in that eBay are charging the way they state they will be charging. The two policies that you quoted, one from .com and one from .ca also seem to do the calculations in the same way.

I must be missing something?

[cumos55]

Could the problem relate to how the discounts were set up in a listing  for a sale to a country such as Poland?

[dutchman48]

No

[dutchman48]

Show me where in policy it says international FVF on shipping will be calculated per item when domestic is not.

[recped]

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@dutchman48 wrote:

Show me where in policy it says international FVF on shipping will be calculated per item when domestic is not.

---

Are you sure Domestic sales are calculated differently? I'm not sure that they are.

In your original example you made a sale of three items and were charged fvf's on 3 x $3 shipping but you actually charged $10.

If that was a domestic sale how would the fvf on shipping be calculated?

[jjohnson48sd]

Regardless .... the fact that ebay is charging a FVF on the shipping is ABSURD.  Here we try to compete with Asian countries to give the lowest possible shipping charges and yet we get dinged even more with this fee which often times you end up shipping at a loss.  Frankly, I am on the edge of the wall and am about to give up on ebay altogether.  Have been on ebay for several years  but is just not profitable anymore especially against the FREE shipping other countries are able to offer.

[dutchman48]

Does nobody read any more.

Lets try again.

I sold 4 notes to someone in the US who paid $3 shipping, not $12 as I combine shipping. I paid 24 ¢ TOTAL FVF on shipping or 6¢ per note.

I sold 3 notes to someone in Poland who Paid $10 shipping as I combine shipping as all notes after the first ship free. I paid 54¢ FVF on shipping or 18¢ per notes for a total of 54¢

I paid 3X the FVF on international sale per note than I pay on a domestic sale, so they are not using the lowest domestic rate to calculate FVF on shipping outside the US.

Is that clear now?

I want to know why they are not using the combined domestic rate for FVF on shipping and using the rate per note and adding it up.

I also want to know where it states that in policy.

And yes, it is getting tiring explaining the same thing over and over again

[pierrelebel]

Trying again.

Both listings were on .com; the problem does not occur on .ca

Is it possible that "shipped from an international location" overrules the policy of using the lower "domestic (USA)" rate for "FVF on shipping" calculation for an international destination?

[pierrelebel]

The policy on eBay.com reads:

"If you're a seller from one of the following countries (China, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Israel, Japan, Macau, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, or Vietnam) and your item isn't located in the US, final value fees on shipping charges are always calculated using the shipping option your buyer selects."

I wonder if that sentence is in fact the problem.  Maybe eBay only looks at "your item isn't located in the US, final value fees on shipping charges are always calculated using the shipping option your buyer selects." instead of your location (Canada).

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/insertion-fee.html#fvf

The policy on eBay.ca reads:

"If you list on eBay.com and a Canadian or international (non US) buyer purchases your item, your final value fee for shipping is calculated using whichever service is less expensive, either:

• The first US shipping service in your listing that isn't express, or

• Your Canadian or express shipping service"

  I could not find anything anywhere about calculation of FVF when shipping discounts were involved.

[rose-dee]

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@dutchman48 wrote:

I want to know why they are not using the combined domestic rate for FVF on shipping and using the rate per note and adding it up.

I also want to know where it states that in policy.

---

If I may, it seems to me everybody who has responded to your original post is so focused on the shipping issues and shipping policies that they're overlooking a possible obvious explanation. 

I don't list on .com, but if I did, I'd be encountering precisely the same FVF overcharges as you do.  Why?  I think your problem is the good old "cart disconnect" that I've been complaining about for months and months to everybody who would listen at eBay -- and who are now no longer interested in hearing about it, sadly for Canadian sellers. 

Let me try to explain what I think is happening, and please bear with the rather long explanation -- this isn't a simple issue, and it has many faces.  

If you're listing on eBay.com and have your combined shipping rules set up to provide shipping discounts on multi-item orders: 

1)  A buyer on .com making a multi-item purchase from you will get your shipping discounts properly applied, and you will only be charged FVFs on the actual shipping paid by the buyer.  All is well. 

2)  A buyer on another eBay site (just about any other than .com), making a multi-item purchase from your .com listings will not get your combined shipping discount properly applied by the eBay system, but will have each individual shipping charge included, and you will pay FVFs on the total of all those shipping charges, even if you revise the invoice manually, or refund the excess shipping to your buyer after the fact.  

Why?  I believe it is because the .com cart is incompatible with many, if not most, other eBay sites and does not work seamlessly as it does for U.S. (.com) buyers.  

The one thing I don't recall your mentioning is whether your discounts are being properly and automatically applied to international multi-item orders from your .com listings, or if you're manually adjusting those orders or refunding.  If the discounts are being properly applied, it may still be quite possible that the .com cart/checkout process is unable to properly assign FVFs as it does domestically (i.e. with .com listing orders). 

I am actually having exactly the same problem in reverse, since I list only on eBay.ca.  If you were listing on .ca, you'd run into this issue, not with international, but with U.S. multi-item orders.  Since you're working from .com, the .com "cart/checkout" applies and is not fully compatible with other sites.  If you were listing solely from .ca, as I do, the problem would be with .com shoppers.  I have no problems with Canadian or international orders combining properly and applying my shipping discounts, since the eBay Canada cart/checkout process is pretty much functional and compatible with most international sites.  

To be precise, on multi-item orders from my U.S. (.com) customers, my shipping discounts are not being properly applied and I end up -- no matter what I do -- paying FVFs on the total of all the individual shipping charges.  So if a .com customer who would normally pay, let's say, $4.00 shipping on one item, buys 4 items, I get stuck with paying FVFs on 4 x $4.00 shipping, rather than on the actual, reduced shipping I charge my customer.  That occurs even if I refund the customer's shipping, partly or entirely!

And yes, it is a colossal rip-off for Canadian sellers in my view.  It has nothing whatever to do with policy, shipping or otherwise.  It has to do with eBay programming dysfunction and a complete lack of interest by eBay in Canadian problems.  

Meanwhile, consider this:  for every Canadian seller who encounters this problem, eBay is collecting 3, 4, 5 times the normal FVFs.  It may be a relatively small amount per seller per multi-item order, but multiply a buck or two every week or so by thousands, and it's a pretty big gob of money.  What incentive does eBay have to fix the problem if they're making "hidden" money that nobody complains about. 

I've been meaning to bring this particularly nasty little by-product of the ".com cart disconnect" to the attention of the eBay.ca staffers for a while, but I had to miss the last two Wed. board hours.  I still intend to bring it up, for whatever good it will do.  Raphael is sick and tired of hearing from me about the "cart disconnect", eBay HQ have apparently no interest or plans to deal with the "cart disconnect" (because the .com cart works just fine for U.S./.com buyers, thank you very much), and so it goes on, we're on our own.  

The one thing I have done occasionally (especially if the wrongly-charged FVFs are significant), is that when refunding my buyers' excess shipping on a multi-item order, I first deduct the amount of excess FVFs I've paid.  I don't always do this, because I feel it's unfair to buyers, but on the other hand I can't continue to lose even more money on multi-item orders when I'm already reducing shipping.  

If I'm dead wrong about this, someone can try to convince me, but frankly I've discovered so many negative facets of the "cart disconnect" that this is the only thing that makes sense.  

By the way, 'dutchman', do you recall if you were having this FVF over-charge problem prior to early 2013?  If not, the "cart disconnect" is the most likely culprit I'd say.  

[rose-dee]

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@dutchman48 wrote:

I have been listing on both for years and only started selling outside the US and Canada recently, hence my question and concern. It is not the shipping that is the issue as that is all set up properly on both sites as are the discounts.

---

I re-read your post above, and I think this answers my question about whether you were getting over-charged prior to early 2013.  Obviously if you were not selling internationally until recently, you wouldn't have seen this FVF problem.  I've been dealing with it since mid-2013, so I guess I've been over-paying eBay for quite some time.  Raphael's best suggestion was for me to list everything on .com, but then I'd have the FVF overcharge problem on my international (and probably also Canadian) orders.  

Incidentally, if the majority of your buyers are Canadians, you could go back to listing on .ca (where the cart actually works for all buyers except those on .com).  The problem there is that many Canadians (and other international buyers) log on to eBay.com to buy. 

It's a very significant problem for Canadian sellers, with no foreseeable solution.  Believe me, I've spent a lot of time and effort trying to get some action, or even recognition of it, from eBay.  To (mis)quote Rhett Butler, "My dear, they just don't give a d______". 

[pjcdn2005]

"If you're a seller from one of the following countries (China, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Israel, Japan, Macau, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, or Vietnam) and your item isn't located in the US, final value fees on shipping charges are always calculated using the shipping option your buyer selects."

I wonder if that sentence is in fact the problem.  Maybe eBay only looks at "your item isn't located in the US, final value fees on shipping charges are always calculated using the shipping option your buyer selects." instead of your location (Canada).

If that was the case then this would be happening on all international transactions, not just for multiple orders. I know that I am not getting charged fvf on international shipping when my domestic shipping is free or less than international.

I could not find anything anywhere about calculation of FVF when shipping discounts were involved.

Exactly. There is really nothing that spells out how it works with multiples but as recped said earlier, eBay has been doing it the same way for quite a while.  I suspect that it is figured out exactly the same way on .ca except that a Canadian buyer is domestic on .ca of course. 

[pjcdn2005]

I sold 4 notes to someone in the US who paid $3 shipping, not $12 as I combine shipping. I paid 24 ¢ TOTAL FVF on shipping or 6¢ per note.

I think that you mean you paid .18 cents total fvf, not .24?

[dutchman48]

2)  A buyer on another eBay site (just about any other than .com), making a multi-item purchase from your .com listings will not get your combined shipping discount properly applied by the eBay system, but will have each individual shipping charge included, and you will pay FVFs on the total of all those shipping charges, even if you revise the invoice manually, or refund the excess shipping to your buyer after the fact.

Rose

My buyer in Poland got the shipping discount properly and only paid for 1 shipping charge.