Invoicing - where to add GST and PST numbers.

[dipmicro]

I have one buyer who wants a proper invoice on the company letterhead with GST and PST numbers.

While in Ontario/Canada I don't think we are required to maintain company letterhead (so I am going to deny this portion of their request to keep it simple), we need to provide tax numbers on invoices/receipts.

I checked eBay invoicing and cannot find a place where to add this information.

Perhaps it would be possible to add them to the address but unbfortunately eBay address is not a free form but has a predefined sections with no space to add the tax numbers.

Perhaps I am missing something, can someone recommend? I really do not want to start creating separate invoices when eBay already does such a great job.

[dipmicro]

I just added my BN and Vendor Permit # to the shipping info on the bottom of the listing (e.g. 330254518336). I am curious if that is enough together with invoices eBay and PayPal generate.

We use QuickBooks for invoices but only for contract customers. Our online sales including collected taxes are tracked in the accounting spreadsheet, so at the end of the particular tax period I only create a filter and get a summary of required field.

I am not going to manually create invoice for every customer, is there a Revenue Canada sales receipt requirement that the information needs to be provided in some tangible form or electronic format is sufficient? Can I charge additional fee for issuing paper invoice if required? I have seen somewhere on the web that some small business do that, but I am not sure if such practice would be legal in Canada.

[lina-mallows]

While GST (BN) numbers MUST be provided- where is the same provision for supplying a PST number, for the Province of ONTARIO?

[recped]

I have one buyer who wants a proper invoice on the company letterhead with GST and PST numbers.

I am not going to manually create invoice for every customer

But it's not every buyer it's this one, just give them what they want.

Do you not include any kind of invoice/packing slip with your orders? That's where you GST number goes (For amounts in excess of $20), Ontario PST numbers are not required and I don't know if consumers are permitted to request it.

[lina-mallows]

recped- We have a pre-inked/self inking rubber stamp- the kind purchased at STAPLES for about $10, with our GST number on it.

I simply stamp the PayPal packing slip, next to the TOTAL, and write INCLUDED.
Regs permit inclusion of GST taxes, and there is no requirement to express them separately. I believe that PST must in these cases must be expressed separately, and we do for ONTARIO- but we would never consider providing our PST number.

If the buyer, ir any buyer is seeking EXEMPTION from PST (ONTARIO)- let them provide you with THEIR information, on the proper BLANKET EXEMPTION FORM.

[dipmicro]

This buyer of my item 330254518336 (also buyer of 310076604019) is a troublemaker, he just requested that unless I provide him with more "official" invoice, he wants his taxes refunded. I have been to several tax seminars run by Revenue Canada and seems RC is more tolerant than some customers can be.

Most small businesses in the area including big chain computer stores just print the invoice with the default QuickBooks template. The receipt from any department store is just a bloody piece of thin paper. The close-by Dolarama (a chain) does not even bother setting the date in their cash register so the date on the receipt is the random date from 20 years back. They have been running like this for at least a year (since I moved here).

How "official" does it have to get ???

Do you not include any kind of invoice/packing slip with your orders? That's where you GST number goes (For amounts in excess of $20)

Yes, I provide PayPal packing slip (which has all the attributes of the receipt I think) with almost every purchase. So I guess I could either create a stamp like Lina does (btw. good suggestion, Lina).

[axe_n_gear_music]

Yes by law in Canada, you must include your GST # on every invoice.
What I do is simple. (Keep in mind I only use the Paypal shipping tool about 10% of the time, as my local guy at Can. Post gives me a better rate.)

MY SHIPPING PROCESS:

1. Go to the eBay payment summary, copy and paste the shipping details of the customer to Word, and print. (This is what I affix to the package). (I also affix my return address label that also includes my website address at the bottom)

2. Next click on printer version, and print 2 copies in grayscale, one for my records, and one for the customer.
Before I click print here, I load my letterhead blank into the printer, which has my full colour logo, and all of my info in about a business card size in the top right hand side of the paper.
This info includes:
- business name (AXE 'N GEAR MUSIC)
- return address
- toll free phone number
- GST #
- website address - www.axengearmusic.com

(My logo is the one that I use on my website.)

My invoice for the customer looks pro, it is very consistent, I never need to use colour ink, and I find it very easy to do. It also fits the page well, with the eBay logo in black to the left of my colour logo/info at the top.

Now, I know not everybody does this, but it works well for me - Lastly, I also include a business card, and a page with a brief explanation of feedback, etc, that I learned from Monique quite a while ago. (I'm lucky my wife has a great job at the largest printing co. in Canada!! LOL)

Once the item is shipped, I mark the item as shipped, I send the buyer an email with the details, and leave them feedback right away.

I hope this helps someone out there, but again, everyone has their own methods that they like, but perhaps you can incorporate some of these ideas yourself.

Cheers,
AXE.

[pierrelebel]

Hi dipmicro

You will find many invoice templates in MS-Excel

Easy to add your name/address on top and GST/HST registration number at bottom

PST Vendor number should NOT be included on invoices going to customers. That number is meant for the government when filing your return and to get PST exemption from your suppliers if purchasing taxable goods for resale. It cannot be used for supplies. .

[dipmicro]

Thanks guys.

I really do not want to create a separate invoice for every order since the tools we already use are doing that. I always thought the eBay invoice and PayPal receipt had everything required, especially since eBay "knows" our GST numbers, we needed to provide it when changing to Business Account type.

This guy must be some kind of ***** or a good provocateur. I told him I would be sending him the proper documentation shortly and that I cannot refund the taxes but he would be welcome to return the product for a full refund.

Now he goes:


Hello Roman,

I have asked for a proof that you are a registered business authorized to
collect the GST and PST because you have collected those taxes from me on
my purchase.

I am happy with the item and would like to keep it, but being charged
Taxes on a Person-2-Person transaction on eBay is silly.

If this was a Business-2-Person transaction then you have to provide me
with the valid GST and PST numbers on an invoice/receipt.

If you did not mean to charge the collected taxes, or are not registered
to do so, issuing a partial refund through PayPal is possible.


Please advise,


On one side there is Revenue Canada pushing us to charge taxes on everything, then there is customer pushing us not to pay taxes. I had one customer not long ago who also complained that he did not expect to pay taxes.

We are not even allowed to absorb the tax (at least not PST):

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90r31_e.htm#BK55

(section: Tax not to be absorbed by vendors)

[lina-mallows]

dipmicro- Tell the customer as we would- they are free to shop elsewhere.
YOU- dipmicro- will follow the applicable rules/laws/regulations, as you are obligated to- and the customer should be told this.

AND- you will not give in to buyer 'extortion'.
When the buyer writes- "I am happy with the item and would like to keep it, but being charged Taxes on a Person-2-Person transaction on eBay is silly." they are saying that the rules don't, or shouldn't apply to them.

IF THEY WANT THEIR MONEY BACK- RETURN THE ITEM- AT THEIR EXPENSE (as per eBay/PayPal rules), AND YOU WILL HAPPILY REUND THEIR MONEY.
OR- pay the tax, as owed, and shut up!

DON'T LET THEM HAVE BOTH WAYS.

You cannot prevent the lousy rating they will leave you anyway.
If they do, they do.
Stand your ground- provide what is necessary- and nothing more.
The buyer can complain all they want, and they likely will, but you know that you have been following the rules.

WRITE your GST number on the form.
Split out the PST and note it.
STATIONARY- give me a break! Anyone can print anything today with a laser printer, and a good programme! A hand written receipt has as much validity as a printed one. And, I wouldn't go our of may to provide anything beyond what YOU think is appropriate!

[jakeeangel]

We can't see the buyer ID because you've kept it private.

The buyer is half wrong. You are not to provide anyone but the gov't and suppliers with your PST number. You must however provide your GST number on all invoices to customers.

I don't think a PayPal packing slip is sufficient as an invoice personally. I use MS Works or use MS Excel as Pierre suggested. If the buyer is expecting you to have a form preprinted from Nebs or Staples or whoever with your full name & address etc they're wrong. An invoice from Excel or Works is perfectly acceptable.

I don't see where you've detailed in your listings that you charge tax. You should. It'll let buyers know upfront & save headaches afterwards. Some people may think you're just trying to pocket extra money.

Dear Buyer,

I am a registered business in the province of Ontario. In accordance with the GST rules & regulations, my GST registration number is ..... which I will be including on my invoice to you. My Retail Sales Tax number is not to be given out to consumers. It is only for suppliers and gov't purposes. My GST registration number should be sufficient proof that I am a registered business. Please feel free to contact the GST office to confirm that it is a valid number.

[axe_n_gear_music]

I would contact this guy, preferably by phone, and direct him to call the government phone number associated with referencing your GST # and it's validity. In the meantime, send him an invoice right away with your GST number ONLY on it. Your PST # is none of his business.
Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. Also, your listings only show in small letters, your GST # and PST #. First, (just my suggestion), I would remove both from your listings, and add in more visible writing, that "CANADIANS WILL PAY APPLICABLE TAXES" or something to that effect. Then, be sure to include your GST # on every invoice, not in your listing.
I find that charging the taxes right up front, and being very open about it, gives the buyer the info he needs to make an informed decision prior to making the purchase. No grey area. If he doesn't want to pay tax, then he can go somewhere else. Also, by charging the tax up front like this, it is easy to keep my spreadsheets up to date on the GST by having it already separated from the sale amount, and easier then to calculate how much you may or may not owe the feds twice a year.

AXE

[pierrelebel]

"I always thought the eBay invoice and PayPal receipt had everything required"

That is incorrect. The rules require you supply your GST/HST registration number on invoices or receipt for taxable transactions within Canada.

"since eBay "knows" our GST numbers"

??? They never asked me for mine. .

[fatdane]

I believe that a seller in Ontario is allowed to offer a price that includes both GST and PST, and I think a noted Eastern Ontario stamp dealer does this. The GST number would still have to go onto the invoice sent to the customer een if it is a tax paid price, and the GST due on the sale must still be remitted to the government. A simple formula is GST = Price time 5 divided by 105. On Ontario it would be GST= Price times 5 divided by 113. I believe these formulas are on the Canada Revenue Agency Website.

On occasion I get a customer that huffs and puffs about the GST and PST and want an "official" invoice. I simply point out that the Ebay or Auction Tamer invoice already sent to them has the GST/HST number if they would bother to read it, and so far that seems to end the demands for an "Official" invoice. Some Ontario dealers get upset about the PST but if they do not supply me with an exemption certificate then they have to pay the tax - and if they are in business they darn well know that. No one enjoys paying the GST, and I certainly find it a pain in the butt to collect, but I do enjoy the cheque from the goverment when I oay more GST than I collect - easy to do when selling ourside Canada.

[recped]

Just send the picky bugger an invoice and be done with it!

[axe_n_gear_music]

Recped

Just thought I would point out that your sales tax table in your listings shows 5% for Ontario.
Cheers,
AXE

[dipmicro]

Hi Everyone,

thank you for responses.

Lina, I am not going to get militant with this customer especially since he is right. I do have to provide GST number. However, for all the pestering (3 emails so far), I prefer not to deal with him anymore. A single email with simple "btw." would do the trick instead of silly demands of letterhead on $26 purchase. He brought our defficiency to my attention, it's just the way he chose to do that not in line with me. For that he is on the BBL already but I am not going to advertise that to him like you suggested.

jakeangelWe can't see the buyer ID because you've kept it private. My current settings hide the buyers, but above I gave another item # that does not keep the buyer ID private.

pierrelabel"since eBay "knows" our GST numbers" ... ??? They never asked me for mine. - if your account type is Business (under My Account -> Business Information), check your Registration Address under My Account -> Addresses. It only shows when you going to change it, but eBay "knows" this number.


Currently (since 2 days ago) I am display Business Number (which is also GST number) and Ontario Vendor permit at the bottom of my listings. It is part of the image, so cannot be easily harvested by bots.

After reading these posts, I will remove Vendor Permit but leave BN/GST# and mailing address at the bottom of the listing. And will also explicitly state the buyers may be subject to Canadian taxes or non-Canadian duties.

Not because of this buyer, but because it is part of today's company image, I am thinking of the way to implement a letterhead, but do not want to pay $100 for every 250pcs to VistaPrint.

[dipmicro]

Just send the picky bugger an invoice and be done with it!

Recped, of course I will. The point of this discussion is is how to implement it so is efficient do it for every customer.

Letterhead stock is actually not so bad idea. The only additional work I need to do is to order/create it and once a month preprint a stock in the printer. Once I have a template and do 200pcs a month, it will only cost me 0.1min/pc and we can continue doing everything like before. VistaPrint is more costly - it comes to some $0.36/pc 😞

[ampurtle]

If you are printing in colour, it's going to cost, go see your local printer

[lina-mallows]

Why need letter head be in colour?

Some of the nicest letterhead out there, is nothing more than an engraved black line of text- OR an embossed LOGO.

Maybe- just maybe, if you want to go really overboard- but with almost infinite use, buy an embosser.

There are several versions, mostly used for envelope flaps, but work on stationary, by reversing the die.

The best part of the embosser concept, is that it is very difficult to photocopy, or duplicate. It looks good, doesn't use ink- and is very environmentally friendly. We have an embosser, with a graphic tree, with a plane flying overhead, that we used to use on the back of envelopes.
We switched to a rubber stamp, when Canada Post started to demand more CN-22 Custom's forms for LIGHT Packet.

Checking around- these are pretty easy to find, look for "Pocket Reversible Stationery " models.