PayPal Chargeback Problem

[alero0]

Hi gang,
I'm looking for a bit of advice.
On Feb. 17 I shipped a parcel to Flordia using CP Expedited.
March 2nd I received a notice from paypal that the buyer never received his parcel and was claiming his money back so paypal would freeze those funds until they investigated the matter. I fowarded them the tracking number to prove that the package was shipped.
March 3rd I emailed CP explaining the situation asking them to look into where the package may be.
March 7th CP emailed me saying they were in touch with USPS and they said a delivery notice was left in the recipients PO Box and the package could be picked up at their local post office.
I emailed this info. to the buyer and also called long distance and spoke to the buyer's wife explaining what happened. She claimed they never got the notice but will check with the post office.
March 8th I received notification that the package was successfully delivered.
That night I emailed the buyer to get in touch with Paypal to advise them that they got their package.
Long story short, I never heard a word from the buyer and today I received notification from paypal that the buyer was rewarded his money and I had to pay an additional $10.00 service charge.
Throughout all this time I've been fowarding all the CP corespondences and tracking info. to Paypal but never got a reply from them.
Today I emailed the buyer saying:

Brandon,

I have just received notice that paypal refunded your money and charged me for it. It is my belief that you have received your covers and made a false claim. In doing so I will proceed in making a report to Canada Post and USPS reporting your actions. You should be warned that it is a Federal offence in the US for mail fraud. Should you have in fact picked up your covers at your post office there will be records of it and you may in fact be prosecuted. The total costs to me by your actions are $62.00 for the speaker covers + S+H and an additional service charged which I had to pay of $10.00. Should you wish to settle this matter please contact me.

Harvey

Is there anything else that I can do or am I just fighting a losing battle? I do plan on contacting CP about this to see what they can do.
Any suggestions?

Harvey

[alero0]

Another Update

I got a notice from USPS a few days ago saying they're going to investigate the matter.

The FBI Internet Fraud people didn't get back to me yet.

Now here's the suprize....I also filed the complaint with Canada Post and today I just received a call from one of their agents and he said he's going to refund my money. He said after reading the report he decided to claim it as a stolen or misdirected package. He said I'll have a check in about 2 wks.

Now here's the million dollar question... I have an appeal going on with Paypal and if I should win my case and get my money back would I be the only person on earth to return the money back to CP that they're sending me???

Harvey

[multidistributor]

Harvey CP will refund you but forget about PayPal giving you a dime they didn't in any of my cases keep in touch i'm interested to see if they would.

[auctionslady]

Hi guys,

I had a chargeback from an US buyer before. I shipped the item of course. Thru the tracking page on www.usps.com, the result showed that the mail was received by that buyer. However, paypal did not take it as reference... or they didn't investigate anything.

On the other hand, the tracking function on paypal seems to be disabled... until last week, I could input the shipping details such as tracking number and shipper info on the payment page. Now, most of the payment pages do not show that function anymore... anyone knows what is going on?

As paypal doesn't allow seller to input the tracking info, I know more people will take this "buyers' protection" advantage to make charge backs. Sellers can say nothing to prove that they have shipped the items on time... and it is always difficult to prove to paypal that you have shipped something. Last time I said I could send them a scanned jpeg of the actual shipment slip, however, paypal rejected my request as they said they cannot receive any email with any attachment!

If I don't get it wrong, sellers' protection only applies to sellers who ship their items to "confirmed" shipping address. Honestly, if we only ship to confirmed address, we will lose 90% of our business. Agree? ?:| Why paypal doesn't ask all buyers to confirm their address first?

Thanks guys for reading 🙂

[cambam0]

Hi auctionslady
I read your post and was wondering how you could track a parcel on www.usps.com if it was shipped from Canada? I thought you could only track it with Canada Post. Am I missing something?

[auctionslady]

Hi cambam0,

Usually my items are shipped from Hong Kong to the US. Mail tracking is also available on usps.com with the tracking no. provided by post office in Hong Kong. usps.com also shows international incoming items to the US. For example, tracking no. RR848370571HK, item shipped from Hong Kong to the US. You can see the status on usps.com - track & confirm - input the tracking no. - press go.

Ever tried your tracking no. provided by Canada post there?

[llee2]

It works for CP as well (Expedited USA, Xpresspost).

When I last talked to Paypal rep, they told me that regardless of what "proof" you have, there is always a way a buyer can do a chargeback. If a buyer does a credit card chargeback, Paypal WILL take the funds from you as the seller regardless of proof of shipment/tracking. They then leave it to the seller to file a fraud complaint with the proper authorities.

Bottom line is that Paypal will not take a loss in any transaction if the buyer does a CC chargeback. You are always at risk by accepting a Paypal payment, regardless of the bogus "protection" spin Paypal likes to put on it. Luckily in my situation, the buyer made an honest mistake and paid me by another means. No thanks and certainly no help from Paypal.

Lincoln

[wrightcomputes]

Seller Protection is only against "unauthorized transactions" and claims of non-receipt.

Under the Seller Protection, PayPal will dispute credit card chargebacks on the seller's behalf. One has to wonder how good a job they'd do when they have nothing to lose.

[esellerauction]

And the list goes on, Paypal is not on the sellers side at all, but with profits up for ebay, who gives a crap about us. I am using other methods for payment.
Paypal will end up being its own worst enemy, I have had a few routing number holds on funds, and buyers getting a refund on crap they broke, 44 days after a sale and I get a brokrn useless item back. Its like going to Walmart, everyone gets a refund no matter what.
I personally am feed up with PP.
I can see why sellers dont accept it as form of payment. Our only protection is going to be by bocotting PP.
IMHO, Kevin

[mrarmbo]

i had a case of a stolen credit card and 3 months later the chargeback came and money was harvested from my account...called paypal and asked them if i am supposed to wait 6 months to deliver my items so that i can be safe from chargebacks and paypal can properly authorize a credit cards use....they told me you are never ever safe from chargebacks...however my logic seemed to move this rep into giving me a courtesy refund and i got all my funds back in 3 days...i really think it depends on the rep though...if you get a non creative or helpful rep best thing to do is say thank you, hang up and try to get a better rep...eventually you will find a competetent or compassinate one...bottom line is that chargebacks are a cost of doing business and selling high end items on ebay is extremely risky


Richard

[alero0]

Hi gang,
Here's my final update on my Paypal Chargeback situation. Paypal just notified me that despite their efforts (???) in trying to get my money back from the buyers credit card co. I lost my appeal. So much for Paypal's seller protection. We are at the buyer's mercy. Valid tracking numbers and delivery confirmations mean nothing. If a buyer wants to screw us over, we're sitting ducks. Anyway, life goes on.

Harvey

[sunset_sports_cards]

Your right Harvey, I was trolling the other user boards here on e-Bay.ca and the buyers there on those boards seem to think Paypal and Ebay are for the sellers. I chuckled when I seen that.

[bh542]

Harvey,

I would recommend you call PayPal asking for an explaination. I fought with a few eBay customer service reps for for a little problem(about $32 credit). They finally decided to resubmit a credit (it was searchable but never appeared in any invoice) to me after 3 months dealing with 4 reps. Don't give up, it's not just about money.

Andrew

[shoplineca]

Harvey
I would argue it as well, even if you have to talk to 20 reps at PayPal.

It wasnt the buyer's credit card company that took your money, it was PayPal therefore they errored and have the full responsibility to fully refund you including the $10 service charge.

I would also write to the USPS Postmaster General as this is mail fraud. The customer is denying receipt of the product and USPS does not put up with tat kind of fraud at all. They have a large internal police force that will send an armed investigator out to the Buyer's house and they will investigate this and may even look towards PayPal as an acomplice.

The USPS investigators are Federally legistlated so they carry alot of power.

Malcolm

[alero0]

I've already filed a complaint with USPS Mail Fraud and I was notified about 6 or 8 wks ago that they will look into the matter. I also filed a complaint with the FBI's Internet Fraud division. They have not yet got back to me. I filed a complaint with CP and they were the only ones who understood the obvious situation and they refunded my money so if I do continue with this matter and should possibly get my money back from Paypal I would morally be obliged to return the money to CP. Hopfully USPS & the FBI carry out their obligations and make this guy's life miserable. That'll be worth the $10. service charge I paid to Paypal. I know it should be a matter of principal but I really don't have the free time to pursue it any longer.

Thank you all for your advice,

Harvey

[skywalker0172]

How do you file with the FBI Internet Fraud Division? I have similar problem too!

[torontotimmy]

I too have a similar problem, almost identical to Cambam0 Paypay were uttely frustrating on a claim from a buyer who requested surface for a package sent to England in the first week of December. Paypal refunded the buyers money in 4 weeks & 1 day from the date of postage, if Paypal understood geography & logistics they would know that the parce;l would not make the trip in that time........but Paypal has the upper hand as always and we are screwed.
I wonder if buyers are catching on to this scam, ordering goods, not requesting tracking, then denying reciept & making claim backs, seems an easy way to make money?

[grade_a_consignments]

Well I say that after the election we declare war on the US, then immediately surrender and all go on welfare.

[citywidedeals4u]

Hi Fellow Members,

I had same situations few times, seems no one from Paypal or from Ebay not realizing the serious impact on sellers. I had shipped an expensive Xbox game to UK and item was delivered according to CP tracking system. Within 3 days of winning the item customer filed a claim and got his money back and paypal never investigated this matter further. Recenly another customer bought an expensive Car Deck who initially requested for cheapest shipping to Australia filed a claim 3 weeks prior to estimated arrival time via ground shipping, and got his money back. I provided tracking number to paypal and to the customer, but paypal didn't care and refunded customers payment without further investigation. If paypal continue this type of actions against growing sellers like me and many others have to move with other alternative methods to sell our merchandise.Hope someone wake up from those insititutions and take some reasonable decessions for sellers like us.

citywidedeals4u

[nancyschina]

In the 7 years I have been on ebay, I have never accepted Paypal. It is reading these kinds of posts that keeps me from accepting it as a payment method. However, now that Bidpay has "bit the dust" I am going to have to consider Paypal ... damn.
Nancy

[gifts_of_elegance]

It was bound to happen and it has happened. Charge backs from PayPal.

We all work for the money and its painful to loose it when we did no wrong, but I find the biggest problem is not so much the money, but the affect it has on you. It stresses you out, you waste valuable time trying to rectifiy the situation and in the end the frustration burns you out.

I know better, I know I have to chalk it up to "cost of doing business" and go on, but it still affects my performance. My record-breaking sales came to a screeching halt because of all the time I wasted trying to defend myself.