Quebec Court of Appeal rules against eBay in favour of sellers

[art-in-the-making]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-brothers-suing-ebay-over-cancelled-sneaker-sale-1.2421...

The case hasn't progressed to the point of arguing the specific merits.

In dispute at present is the right of Quebec residents to sue eBay in Quebec, essentially in contravention of the eBay user agreement, which would have suits tried in California.

So far two Quebec rulings have confirmed that eBay sellers are considered "consumers" and therefore are covered by the consumer protection provided in the Quebec Civil code.

interesting.

[mr.elmwood]

This came up down south. The Knight Errant on SC dot com was screaming that eBay had better watch out as they has lost in court.

Maybe not.

This is an appeals court that can say what ever it wants as it simply goes to a higher court. Plus, a Quebec decision is only valid in Quebec. Civil law VS common law.

Oh fer, there is no "decision". The "decision" is only to allow it to go to court.. "it's unclear when the actual case involving the shoes will actually go before a judge."

All they were arguing, apparently, was the right to go to court. The brothers were deemed to be "consumers" While they were selling?

I "think" that this is a non-starter.

[widgetc]

"The brothers were deemed to be "consumers" While they were selling?"

I see nothing contradictory about that. While selling they were consumers of eBay services. No different than a retail store still being a consumer of say advertising. electricity, etc.

[cumos55]

Recent rules on eBay.com indicate that if a seller has a problem... they must sue eBay as individuals, and not as a class action suit.

Other interesting situations  as occurring..

This must occur in specific jurisdictions...  states...

eBay cannot come to Canada and follow the same principles....  Things are very different here

Something we can see here with this court case.

and... Above all Quebec  has a uniquely different approach to law than other provinces in Canada.....  all based on history...

[anguscoinshop]

 No private organization will ever be allowed to be above the law.

I've always said that Canadian(Provincial) laws supersede ebay rules, agreements and policies.

Organization like this one will always learn the hard way.

[pierrelebel]

"No private organization will ever be allowed to be above the law."

???

I do not see where anyone suggested anyone else should be "above the law".

The question facing the Quebec Court was and remains: which jurisdiction should govern a contract between residents of Quebec (consumers presumably) and a foreign corporation when the contract stipulates jurisdiction would be in a foreign country, specifically California USA in this case.

While the Court of Appeal has ruled that Quebec should be the jurisdiction should this case proceed, there is no pending case.

It will be interesting to see what eventually happen but I suspect.... nothing as usual.

[pierrelebel]

On the subject of court case, how are you proceeding with your lawsuit against the buyer who left you negative feedback?

[mr.elmwood]

Pierre? Is it your opinion that a seller can go to a public court for an opinion about FB which is deemed by eBay to be the buyer's opinion? Must be nice to be above the law and use it against mere opinion.

[pierrelebel]

"Is it your opinion that a seller can go to a public court for an opinion about FB which is deemed by eBay to be the buyer's opinion?"

It is not really a question of opinion.

A seller may go to court against a buyer for any reason whatsoever.  Will the seller win such case?  I do not expect any Canadian or American court to find in the favour of the seller based on the information provided earlier by the seller.  However, that does not change the fact a seller may wish to spend his time and money anyway he wishes.

The court decision - assuming one were to proceed with it - would make for interesting reading.

However, we all know the guy was blowing smoke as usual and nothing will ever happen.

[cumos55]

If opinion, specifically feedback and ratings, are used to prevent a business from continuing to sell on eBay.

Does it not mean that the opinions upon which that ruling was made can be challenged in a court of law.

Or how those opinions en mass were used.

The questions we must ask relate to differences in business law between Canada and the US, as well as among provinces.

Things can get messy if this situation ... a sale of something such as indicated by OP...specifically the termination of an auction...... actually goes to court.

There are many questions.... and too many complications to conclude anything ....

Here we have a new seller on eBay  listing something of great value,  with that sale terminated before completion...

This has happened before..... when there was a question of a fraud.....

eBay may eventually be forced to allow the transaction to go to completion but under very strict controls... or maybe  not.....

[mr.elmwood]

There is also the value of the court's time which is funded purely by the taxpayer. The courts take a very dim view of trivial cases. Judges tend to dismiss the case with no reasons. The vast majority of cases never get out of the starting gate as the system simply refuses to hear them.

The only ones making anything off of these cases are the ambulance chasers.

[anguscoinshop]

Well the op is a very strong hint to me,

i'm in pq(i'm not)

I sue ebay

they dispute the jurisdiction

MAAAAAAAAAAA, denied

Consumer protection provided in the Quebec Civil code.

its a very strong hint from the court, ebay will have to go play in pq's backyard.

[reallynicestamps]

Quebec has very different consumer laws than the rest of Canada.

For example, as I understand it, if a Quebec merchant is selling stolen merchandise, the original owner, from whom it was stolen, must prove that the merchant knew it was stolen, before he can reclaim it.

In the rest of Canada, a merchant selling stolen products will have them seized and returned to the original owner,whether the merchant was innocent of the theft or not.

Again, I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is based on tales of why stolen stamp collections often showed up in Montreal shops and auctions, rather than in the larger Toronto or Halifax auctions with larger clienteles and higher hammer prices.

The brothers were selling brand name sneakers, I believe.

[pierrelebel]

"The brothers were selling brand name sneakers, I believe."

The brothers listed shoes they claimed were "brand name" prior to actually acquiring them (preselling).

[cumos55]

The shoes were collectable, limited production..... total production unknown

From the news article

The shoes in question are a pair of Nike Foamposite One Galaxy running shoes which they bought in February 2012 for $316, including taxes.

The shoes were purchased at a store in Montreal and are one of an unknown number produced and sold in a handful of locations.

The shoe was created to mark the 2012 National Basketball Association's all-star game.

The brothers have said bidding on the shoes was up to $96,750 when the online giant decided to pull the plug just hours into the auction. They argue they would never be able to fetch that amount now.

Seller's lawyer has the shows that were being sold.

--------------------------------------------

eBay's concerns ...

(1) New seller

(2) high priced auction.

(3) potential for fraud

[pierrelebel]

The summary you offer from that article does not mention that the shoes were apparently listed on eBay prior to having been purchased by the brothers.  That may have been an important part of eBay's decision to withdraw the listing.

[nuvistors]

If this frivolous  case is found  in favour of the Quebec seller ebay will have only one option.

  The simple solution would be to not allow any sellers from Quebec.

The overall impact to ebay would be very small.

[cumos55]

Cannot find any reference to the fact that the auction was placed on eBay before  the shoes were bought.

I must be missing  something...

and if that is so... another reason for cancelling the auction...

[cumos55]

Found reference

When the brothers signed up for the account, they didn't have the shoes, which they snagged three days later. 

(1) Signed up

(2) Bought the shoes  three days later.

From this I would say they listed the shoes after the were purchased....

[mr.elmwood]

Sounds more and more like a test of definitions. What constitutes a consumer? The brothers were renting space on a web site to attempt to sell something. They did not actually purchase anything from eBay. They had, perhaps, an implied contract.  A contract requires offer and acceptance. eBay offered the space with a slew of conditions. The brothers accepted. eBay then said "You violated the conditions". The brothers disagreed and thus the court case.

I would not be fooled by the exorbitant sums mentioned in the link. We can be pretty sure they were all phony bids.

This will never see the inside of a real court.