What legal right does Ebay have to charge me tax (duty) on goods going to Canada when the goods are

[needabid]

What legal right does Ebay have to charge me tax (duty) on goods going to Canada when the type of goods are not taxable according to Canadian law? There is supposed to be no tax on silver coins over 99.99% silver (silver eagles) and yet I was charged a tax of roughly $10. To the best of my knowledge the Canadian government has not given Ebay this right and the USA government does not have the authority to give Ebay this right. Where can this money go, but into the pockets of Ebay. They cannot forward this money to the Canadian government because they cannot state an official valid reason for collecting it in the first place. The same sort of thing takes place when purchases under $20 are taxed. The Canadian government does not charge tax (duty) on objects under $20 and yet I have Ebay took tax from me in this situation. Once again what is done with with this money?  Ebay cannot go to the Canadian government and give them this money because the Canadian government has no right to collect to in the first place. If any of it is ever given to the Canadian government it must be mislabeled for the Canadian government to accept it.

I have no doubt that Ebay would fall back on the fact that in paying for the tax I agreed to it. The problem is that they did not have the authority to issue it in the first place. The whole situation seems to be totally illegal and a cause for legal action.

[i*m-still-here]

I suppose they have a lot of things to work out, don't they?

The GSP isn't yet fine-tuned enough to discriminate how it taxes us, but give them time and they'll probably get it right.

It seems like the program is here to stay.  Not a thing we can do about it and no one cares if we don't love it.

Experienced buyers will learn to make it work for them.  I know I am.  For example, items using the GSP sell for less at auction but when asked these sellers are willing to ship without the GSP.  So arrange shipping the normal way and bid away.

New buyers, on the other hand, will continue to be angry and come here to vent.

They're not sticking around to listen to explanations about how the government collects taxes ............ (they already know), or how the GSP works for heavy items (they don't care).

The obvious danger is that new Canadian buyers will leave eBay altogether.  One bad buying experience for a newbie is usually all it takes.

Buyer after buyer is posting that they'll never buy here again because of the GSP, and IMO we should believe them.

It might not matter that much to Canadian sellers........... but it might to eBay.ca.

Time will tell.

[i*m-still-here]

needabid........... you can probably file to recover the taxes you paid if you think  it's worth the effort.

Doing that is very difficult and time consuming when you have paid via the CPO.

The paperwork when going the GSP is probably more than anyone wants to deal with, but it's an option if there's a lot of $ involved.

[marnotom!]

Needabid, I'm confused as to why you seem to be using the terms "tax" and "duty" interchangably as they're two different things, but that's neither here nor there, I suppose.

Technically speaking, it's not eBay that's charging you taxes but an agent of the Global Shipping Program, whose terms and conditions one presumably agrees to when you commit to purchasing the item.  There's links to these terms and conditions on the listing page and the checkout page:

http://pages.ebay.ca/shipping/globalshipping/buyer-tnc.html

A rough idea of the fees involved for buyers is included in those terms and conditions.  In the case of your sub-$20 item, I would imagine that the import fees you paid did not include taxes or even duty, but were simply a processing fee levied by Pitney Bowes, the main agent for the Global Shipping Program.  Since I can't see the listing for the other item, I can't make much of a guess as to where that $10 charge went, particuarly as I don't know the value of the coin.

As *I'm-Still-Here* points out, there isn't a particularly good algorhythm for sorting out when an item shipped through the Global Shipping Program is taxable and when it isn't.  Shipments of coins and paper money are actually not supported by the GSP right now, so I suspect the seller of the item miscategorized it and taxes were calculated based on the category that the seller used.  If you've just recently purchased the item, I wouldn't be surprised if the item gets caught by the carrier responsible for shipping it from the Global Shipping Center in Kentucky and it gets returned to the seller.

As for the "legality" of the GSP, all commercial carriers are responsible for collecting taxes (and duty, if applicable) on goods imported to Canada.  It is what it is.  If your coin did/does get through customs, I'd think that Canada Border Services would just happily take that tax and remit it to the Canada Revenue Agency.  I doubt any fat-cat businessman would line his pockets with it.

[femmefan1946]

Your invoice should include the phone number for the Canadian Border Services Agency.

Call them and ask to have the duty refunded. You'll probably have to educate the clerk about what part of the customs and excise book to look in, but since you are knowledgeable about the exemption I'm guessing you also know what to quote at them,

Politely.

You will catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

If the items are also not taxable, I think the CBSA agent can probably arrange to have those refunded as well.
 If not you'll be calling your provincial revenue offices. Same deal, have the relevant part of the tax code available.

A fax machine is also handy.

[dipmicro]

I never used this GSP program myself, but I don't think they do actually. Ebay or Pitney Bowes requires Power Of Attorney of every single person and I don't think they have it.

This program is built on a thin ice and with disrespectig Canadian classifications and rates, it's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Speaking of lawsuits, 3 pernament residents who hold grudge against royal family, filed dispute against citizenship oath and so far they are winning. http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/09/20/citizenship-oath-to-the-queen-violates-free-speech-but-isnt-...

If people can succesfully dispute her majesty and her rules, there is definitely room to dispute Ebay and their scammy sidekick company 🙂

[marnotom!]

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@dipmicro wrote:

Ebay or Pitney Bowes requires Power Of Attorney of every single person and I don't think they have it.

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Do you give Power of Attorney to the checkout clerk who collects sales tax on your purchases at a store?

Do you think companies who have goods shipped in this manner have to give Power of Attorney to the shipper or logistics company that collects taxes and duties owing on the shipment?

Has anyone had to give Power of Attorney to Canada Border Services when they've assessed and collected taxes due on an item imported by mail?

[ut.babe]

Actually, no point in calling the Border Services Agency for a refund... they will just direct you to the website to download and fill out the forms to submit.

You can get them and find out the process and where to send here :

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/postal-postale/dispute-contestation-eng.html

Note that it says though that Canada Post charges of $9.95 will only be refunded if it is found the entire tax and/or duty charged was invalid.  And that there are instances like EMS or Priority Post shipments where it is not refunded under any circumstances.

They also will not refund any other shippers processing fees.  Hope the link helps.

[dipmicro]

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@marnotom! wrote:

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@dipmicro wrote:

Ebay or Pitney Bowes requires Power Of Attorney of every single person and I don't think they have it.

---

Do you give Power of Attorney to the checkout clerk who collects sales tax on your purchases at a store?

Do you think companies who have goods shipped in this manner have to give Power of Attorney to the shipper or logistics company that collects taxes and duties owing on the shipment?

Has anyone had to give Power of Attorney to Canada Border Services when they've assessed and collected taxes due on an item imported by mail?

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Obviously you have no idea what you are babbling about. I will spend a minute nonetheless. You are welcome.

Collecting taxes does not require POA. Representing you in front of CBSA, court or police (aka acting as your agent) - does. When importing goods, you or your agent have to make an entry. Pitney Bowes acts as your agent.

CBSA is almost ultimate authority for assessing imports, they are not representing you, ever. They represent the government.

[marnotom!]

Okay, here's a better response.

From the GSP terms and conditions page for buyers:

Your Role as Importer of Record; Power of Attorney. You hereby agree that Pitney Bowes will designate you (or the recipient of the GSP Item that you purchase, if someone other than yourself) as the "Importer of Record" of the GSP Item or, at its discretion, will designate one of its service providers as the "Importer of Record" to facilitate the customs clearance of the GSP Item. You are responsible to: (A) ensure that your purchase and importation of the GSP Item complies with all laws and regulations of the country into which the GSP Item is being imported, (B) file a completed customs entry and related documents with the customs authorities of the country into which the GSP Item is being imported, and (C) pay the assessed import duties and other taxes due upon importation of the GSP Item. However, to the extent applicable, you hereby grant to Pitney Bowes (and, to the extent necessary, its third party service providers) a "Power of Attorney" authorizing Pitney Bowes and/or its service providers to act as your agent(s) to retain customs brokers and/or freight forwarders for the purpose of transacting customs business with all relevant customs and revenue authorities on your behalf, including, but not limited to, arranging for the importation of the GSP Item, assigning Harmonized System classification codes to each commodity, accounting for duties and taxes on your behalf, and managing any dispute with such authorities regarding customs classifications, applicable duties and/or taxes. In addition, you agree to authorize the customs brokers and/or freight forwarders selected by Pitney Bowes to make, endorse, sign, declare and/or swear to any customs, entry, withdrawal, declaration, certificate, bill of lading and/or any other documents required by law or regulation in connection with the importation and/or transportation of the GSP Item that is shipped or consigned to you or your designee for shipment out of the United States and into any other country. You acknowledge and agree that assigning Harmonized System classification codes requires expertise and that you will defer to the expertise of Pitney Bowes in performing this task and will not question the Harmonized System classification codes so assigned by Pitney Bowes.

Buyers agree to these terms and conditions of the GSP when they commit to purchase from a listing utilising it.

[dipmicro]

POA is executed by signing and witnessing. Also the attorney should act in best behalf of the donor, and PB has conflict of intertest in this matter.

Still thin ice.

A quote from: http://wiki.lawdepot.com/wiki/Power_of_Attorney_FAQ_-_Canada

How should I sign my power of attorney document?

To be valid, you must sign the document with your usual cheque signing signature. You should also initial each page of the document. The signing and the initialing of the pages must occur in the presence of your notary or witness(es).

After you have signed and initialed your document in front of your notary or witness(es), your notary or witness(es) must sign on the applicable page of the power of attorney and should initial each page. This must occur in your presence.

Ebay is not going to ask for notarized POA from every ebay member, that would be the death of Ebay or at least this program. So they take shortcuts.

I am not attacking, just saying there is a good space for litigation against this program.

[marnotom!]

So how would a stand-alone commerical carrier handle this?  There are services such as those offered by UPS and FedEx that offer all-inclusive shipping and customs clearance for their air and express services and as far as I know that can be all at the exporter's instigation.

Also of note is the service Borderfree (once owned by Canada Post) which does pretty much the same as the GSP except for specific American retailers.  It has a similar clause in its consumer terms and conditions of use except it doesn't actually refer to Power of Attorney as such:

http://www.borderfree.com/consumer-terms

Note to Canadian Consumers: By ordering goods from Borderfree, you hereby authorize a licensed Canadian customs broker, chosen by Borderfree, to act as your agent, and to transact business with the CBSA (Canada Border Services Agency) to clear your merchandise, account for duties and taxes, to return merchandise to Borderfree, and prepare and submit refund claims on your behalf for any merchandise that you return. You understand that the CBSA will send any refund of duties and taxes that were paid on the returned merchandise to the broker, and that you will obtain the refund directly from Borderfree. In this connection, you also authorize the customs broker to endorse any refund cheque issued by the CBSA in your name, so that Borderfree can be reimbursed.

I'm not saying this makes it all nice and legal, but it does appear that a precident has been set.

[dipmicro]

I don't know how commercial handlers handle this, most of them just hold package hostage I guess. I have a POA with every commercial carrier I use. All properly signed and dated and initialed and witnessed.

Had one delivery from TNT many years ago, they demanded some brokerage fes and threatened with collections, and I send them cheque with tax portion of the bill and note I would pay the rest after they produce my signed POA. I never heard from them again.

They all take shortcuts. It's like 100km/h speed limit on the highways, almost everybody drives 120, it's almost like a social norm, but technically everyone is breaking the law. Most cops just stop those who go much faster than everyone, but when they need to fill quotas at end of the month it's easy pickin'

[dipmicro]

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Note to Canadian Consumers: By ordering goods from Borderfree, you hereby authorize a licensed Canadian customs broker, chosen by Borderfree, to act as your agent, and to transact business with the CBSA (Canada Border Services Agency) to clear your merchandise, account for duties and taxes, to return merchandise to Borderfree, and prepare and submit refund claims on your behalf for any merchandise that you return. You understand that the CBSA will send any refund of duties and taxes that were paid on the returned merchandise to the broker, and that you will obtain the refund directly from Borderfree. In this connection, you also authorize the customs broker to endorse any refund cheque issued by the CBSA in your name, so that Borderfree can be reimbursed.

I'm not saying this makes it all nice and legal, but it does appear that a precident has been set.

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I think this gives it some level of validity but if contested at court it may not hold the legal test.

The couriers do cut corners where it's profitable. For example if 1 person out of 100 chalenges the process, or even 1 of 10, it's still cheaper to cut shortcuts than do it properly, becauase doing this properly would be enormous administration burden. They always do it properly on commercial accounts and they encourage it by waiwing portions of the fees when having a proper POA and credit card on file.

Perhaps some noticed the couriers often disrespect no-parking signs. Apparently it's more profitable for them to pay occasional fine than searching for proper parking with each delivery. Most people including police tolerate the couriers violating parking restriction.