Global Shipping Program Pet Peeve

[elgato963]

One of my biggest pet peeves about buying stuff on eBay is the total price difference when making an offer on a item that uses the global shipping program, compared to what you actually end up paying. Here's an example:

I made an offer of $175 on an item. The shipping came up as $27.89. The import duties came up as $18.37.  The estimated total came to $221.26.   So, when you're making that offer and it's accepted, you're expecting to pay $221.26. Right?  Well, wrong. I get my invoice and surprise, the total is $236.55.  In my opinion, that's a BIG difference from $221.26.  A difference of $15.29. I know the first amount states "estimated", but, come on, that's too much of a difference. They need to come up with a better program. It becomes very hard for me as a buyer to make offers to sellers who use the GSP. The only solution right now is to AVOID sellers who use the GSP. 

[marnotom!]

What’s the breakdown of the charges on your invoice? I’m trying to figure out where the difference is between what’s stated on the offer and what’s stated on the invoice. Are the amounts that you’re quoting here in US or Canadian dollars? (Yeah, probably a dumb question, but it has to be asked.)

By the way, avoiding sellers who have their international shipments forwarded through the GSP isn’t the only “solution” to this. You can also have your item shipped to a friend or relative in the States or use a forwarding service of your choice. Just make sure that address is on file and is the one the seller sees for invoicing purposes.

[elgato963]

Made offer on the item for £175. Shipping came up as £27.89 and import fees as £18.37 = £221.26

The seller accepted my offer.  However, when I got the invoice, the charges for shipping jumped to £34.13 and the import fees were now £27.42. 

When making the offer the shipping costs/import fees were £46.26.  On the invoice, they are now £61.55. That's a difference of £15.29.  

It's difficult making offers on items when amounts change the price total.

[femmefan1946]

It might be that the original shipping was based on Canada generally or overseas generally, while the second was based on your postal code precisely.

There might also be a difference in currency exchange since you would pay in loonies and the seller would receive payment in pounds.

Keep in mind that the Global Shipping Program is a SELLER PROTECTION programme, and has no benefits for the buyer.

[elgato963]

EBay needs to come up with something that a lot of other companies have. As an example, I can purchase something from Nordstrom.com, it will let me know what the shipping rate is and what, if any import duties there are. So when I make the purchase, I know exactly what the amount owing for the item is. This way I can make an decision if the item is worth it or not to purchase. With the GSP on eBay, the price (shipping/import fees) changes when you make an offer (and accepted) to what it's actually on the final invoice. A new solution is required. As of right now, think I'm going to avoid sellers who use the GSP.  No benefit for the buyer.  

[marnotom!]

I don't have any experience buying stuff that's handled by the UK Global Shipping Programme, so I'm going to have to post a lot of thoughts based on musing and speculation here.

You haven't said anything about how the shipping price you paid compares to the one that was on the listing page.  I'd be curious to know if there was any difference, particularly if the shipping calculator bot had your postal code to work with on the listing page.

As @femmefan1946 suggests, usually differences between estimated and invoiced import charges and shipping charges for offers are explained by the bot using different postal codes to make its calculations.  Also, because some of the shipping is done by a Canadian carrier, the shipping charges for within Canada are "backwards converted" to pounds sterling, and some (Definitely not all!)  of that difference may be due to the exchange rate used.

Do you live in a remote location that's only served by Canada Post and no--or few--commercial carriers or couriers?  I'm wondering if the bot didn't take something like that into consideration when creating the estimated charges, but once your address was confirmed in Checkout the shipping charge was adversely affected.

[marnotom!]

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@elgato963 wrote:

EBay needs to come up with something that a lot of other companies have. As an example, I can purchase something from Nordstrom.com, it will let me know what the shipping rate is and what, if any import duties there are. So when I make the purchase, I know exactly what the amount owing for the item is. This way I can make an decision if the item is worth it or not to purchase. With the GSP on eBay, the price (shipping/import fees) changes when you make an offer (and accepted) to what it's actually on the final invoice. A new solution is required. As of right now, think I'm going to avoid sellers who use the GSP.  No benefit for the buyer.  

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But you're not making an offer for your Nordstrom item, so this isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison.

The problem with the GSP compared to most other cross-border e-tailers is that the GSP doesn't have the item in its warehouse and it actually doesn't know what the item is exactly, only its category and certain item specifics such as any weights and measurements the seller may have provided eBay as well as the item's country of manufacture/origin.

My understanding is that for transactions where "best offer" isn't used, the vast majority of the time a GSP-forwarded item's invoiced costs to the buyer jive with what's on the listing page unless the buyer uses a different postal code in Checkout than they did when browsing the listing.

[elgato963]

Perhaps a good solution is when using the "best offer" function, allow for your postal code/zip code to be entered and it can perhaps then give you a better idea what your final true cost will be.  Plus, I find it extremely suspicious that the price for shipping/import duties is always higher never less. 

Plus, if I was looking at buying an item and it was available by two sellers both located in the USA, one using Global Shipping Program and the other didn't, I'd rather buy from the seller who doesn't use GSP.  Likely a very good chance the item will clear customs without any duties being charged. As an example, I recently just purchased an item from a seller located in Chicago, USA. Was about $180 US.  Was delivered without custom duties.  It actully happens quite a bit. Plus, I still had tracking and was delivered way faster because the item doesn't end up in going to Kentucky.  Like I said, as a buyer there just isn't any benefits whatsoever in buying something from a seller who uses GSP.  If the seller uses USPS, I get tracking, the item comes faster and there's a chance I get to avoid those pesky import duties.  It's a win, win and win for me as a buyer.

[femmefan1946]

A lot of the hatred for the GSP came when we were paying duty and sales tax on any import over $20Cdn.

With the latest iteration of NAFTA that has changed to $150 duty -free and $40 tax free if from the USA (and probably Mexico).

BUT

There was no change for imports from elsewhere. Overseas imports are charged based on the $20 allowance*.

So your Chicago example is quite different from a UK import.

And actually- when we were talking about changes to the "import fees " we forgot to mention sales taxes, which would be 5%  GST only for an Albertan but 13%  GST+ PST for me in BC.

But again.

The GSP is a Seller Protection program.

At least in theory, the import fees would be the same whether charged in advance by GSP or on the doorstep by Canada Post.

Ummmm-- another exception. Canada Post charges a $9.95 service fee, while GSP charges ~$5USD service fee.

And other couriers, like UPS charge upwards of $25. 

*And CBSA sensibly ignores small, low value imports on the logical basis that it costs the taxpayer more to assess and collect import fees than could be collected. They have said that 93% of low value imports are never assessed. This was said during the influx of fentanyl a couple of years back. (Which is still going on and still killing people.)

[marnotom!]

We need to keep in mind that this forwarding service is called the Global Shipping Program(me) and not the Canada Shipping Program because it serves about 100 other countries besides ours.  Some buyers in countries other than Canada actually don't mind the program because it bypasses their problematic postal services and customs bureaux.  However, as those aren't really a problem for us, we enjoy (generally) pretty good trade relationships with the UK and US and we're right next door to the US, the program isn't often the best fit for a sale to Canada.

I've bought a small handful of items that were forwarded through the GSP, mostly cell phones which most sellers wouldn't likely ship from the US by First Class Package International, the cheapest mail option.  I was surprised to find that the shipping cost was comparable to that mailing method, and the GSP's calculation of import charges seemed to figure in only GST and not BC PST, plus a small handling charge of around US$4.00.  In addition, in two instances the cases I ordered for those phones at the same time actually arrived after the phones despite them not being handled by the GSP,  probably because the sellers were using mail consolidation services which cut down the shipping cost but add to the shipping time.

The GSP is far from perfect, but it is a forwarding service and it's never claimed to be built for speed or economy.  I think it has its place.  The problem is, most sellers using it haven't done much homework on its workings and the American ones don't really understand the special nature of the trade relationship between the US and Canada.  Having said that, judging by what my wife orders online, direct shipments by mail from the US are the exception rather than the rule, and a lot of what she orders appears to be forwarded in a manner similar to that of the GSP.

[peclem38]

Totally my pet peeve as well.

sellers need to realise that using this service is not only unnecessary in most case, but will cut down on the number of buyers they get.

i have to really, really want something before I will use the GSP. 
it quite often doubles my cost.

you get charged import duties regardless of the item, even when no charges are due.

i have never been charged duty when the GSP is not used. It is a total money making scam.

[luv4orphans]

I have found that too. When you get to paypal to pay the amount is always a bit higher than what you see on ebay.  Not sure why. It seems they are now charging the buyer a percentage fee for using paypal as sellers no longer deal with them and are getting paid through ebay channel, not paypal.  This started when ebay opt out of paypal. Prior to that the sellers paid the fees on paypal for every transaction. As they can no longer do that they now charge the buyer that fee. Before that awful program came about what you saw on your screen on ebay was the same as what you would pay on paypal. 

[luv4orphans]

A lot of times hard to find a seller that is not using that GSP program. Far and few in between. Been buying auto parts for a friend and most of them are using the GSP.  Something that not everybody sells so has no choice. Sellers get free shipping within a certain distance and a lot less hassle for them.  Just mail it there and be done with it.  Unless something goes wrong. On the plus side though still cheaper for him to buy like this than if he were to purchase these items in Canada.  Or if they can even be found here. 

[marnotom!]

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@peclem38 wrote:

sellers need to realise that using this service is not only unnecessary in most case, but will cut down on the number of buyers they get.

i have to really, really want something before I will use the GSP. 
it quite often doubles my cost.

you get charged import duties regardless of the item, even when no charges are due.

i have never been charged duty when the GSP is not used. It is a total money making scam.

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International sales don't really figure prominently in most US (and probably UK) sellers' sales.  Remember, the US market is about ten times bigger than the Canadian market.  Unlike most Canadian sellers, most US and UK sellers can do very well on domestic sales alone.

As far as the "import charges" go, we really don't know what goes into them.  Pitney Bowes pays any GST/HST/duties and processing fees owing on the item on the buyers' behalf and the "import charges" are our way of paying Pitney Bowes back.  The charges are an estimate created by a bot who doesn't have much to work with apart from the category in which the item is listed.  But to make sure we're on the same page, the tax-free limit for items from the US is C$40 while charges for dutiable items don't kick in until the C$150 mark.  Items sent directly by mail are subject to a C$20 limit for both taxes and duty, but CBSA has been very lax about enforcing that for the past decade and a half or so.

And of course the GSP is designed to be a money-maker.  It's not a charitable organization or public service.  But it's not a scam; there's nothing fraudulent about it.

[marnotom!]

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@luv4orphans wrote:

I have found that too. When you get to paypal to pay the amount is always a bit higher than what you see on ebay.  Not sure why. It seems they are now charging the buyer a percentage fee for using paypal as sellers no longer deal with them and are getting paid through ebay channel, not paypal.  This started when ebay opt out of paypal. Prior to that the sellers paid the fees on paypal for every transaction. As they can no longer do that they now charge the buyer that fee. Before that awful program came about what you saw on your screen on ebay was the same as what you would pay on paypal. 

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If you're talking about the difference in the Canadian dollar totals between Checkout and PayPal, it's likely because Checkout uses a market-based exchange rate while PayPal uses its own exchange rate.  I think that "percentage fee" you're talking about is probably PayPal's mark-up of the market-based rate, and that's always been there, just as it's there if you get currency exchanged from a bank or have a credit card do the currency conversion.

[marnotom!]

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@luv4orphans wrote:

A lot of times hard to find a seller that is not using that GSP program. Far and few in between. Been buying auto parts for a friend and most of them are using the GSP.  Something that not everybody sells so has no choice. Sellers get free shipping within a certain distance and a lot less hassle for them.  Just mail it there and be done with it.  Unless something goes wrong. On the plus side though still cheaper for him to buy like this than if he were to purchase these items in Canada.  Or if they can even be found here. 

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I was looking at wheel covers for my scrappy Asian import a few weeks ago and I was quite surprised at how much less expensive the GSP was for shipping them than direct mail.  (I ended up ordering them from an Alberta-based website, BTW.)  I've heard a few other people say that auto parts do tend to ship more cheaply through the GSP.  The trade-off is that it can be slower depending on the buyer's location.

No one shipping method is perfect for everything, but I don't think people would be calling express mail "useless" or a "scam" if US sellers started using it for small twenty dollar items.  They'd just recognize that the shipping method is inappropriate for the item.

[maureenr5700]

Totally!

[maureenr5700]

That is strange I use the make an offer option often and have never had the final total different from the amounts shown when I submit my offer. Did you ask the seller to explain or go direct to customer service they will sorr it out.