eBay

ya_tabman22 · ‎06-04-2021

I ordered a pair of shoes from ebay.com with value over $750. The item was left in the common mail area of my apartment builiding that over 100 people have access to (the shipping company took a picture of the package on delivery). I suspect someone stole the box. I was not asked to provide signature confirmation on delivery as per Ebay's Money Back Guarantee for items over $750 in price (https://www.ebay.ca/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies/signature-confirmation-policy?id=5154#th...)

Ebay and payal have ruled against my case based on "tracking information indicating the item was delivered". I really am confused on what to do from here. I have appealed to Ebay but have gotten absolutely no where. Any help is appreciated.

lady.stark · ‎06-05-2021

I really feel sorry for you. That is quite a big loss. Which company was used to deliver it? Did you try contacting them?

If you paid using a credit card, you could try to call them to see if they have a solution.

You can also file a police report for mail theft. And maybe place an ad inside the builing asking people to give back your package if they have seen it. The person who has it may have forgotten. Maybe also try knocking on some neighbours' door (especially if there are some on the first floor). It cannot hurt.

femmefan1946 · ‎06-05-2021

eBay has no responsibility for the theft.

This should be reported to the building supervisor and to the police.

You can make a claim on your tenant's insurance too.

I was not asked to provide signature confirmation on delivery as per Ebay's Money Back Guarantee for items over $750 in price

This is something that the seller either pays for or doesn't. Are you sure the seller did buy Signature Confirmation?

What service did he buy?

If the shipping service was paid for Signature Confirmation, and did not make any effort to make sure the parcel was delivered to you, the shipper is responsible to the seller for not performing its duty.

Since Paypal would also accept the photo as proof of delivery, I don't think you would get anywhere with a Not Received claim. And PP insists that the buyer pay for return shipping (with tracking) in a Not As Described dispute.

So I hope you back your PP account with a credit card, because at this point your best bet is a credit card chargeback.

If you win the chargeback, the seller would then have to go to his shipper for reimbursement.

Just to confuse things, was this a GSP purchase?

I would also suggest that because security is so sloppy in your building and because one of your neighbour's is a thief, that you enquire at the local PO about FlexDelivery which is a new and currently free service of Canada Post.

ya_tabman22 · ‎06-08-2021

I did contact the shipping company, but because they did take a picutre of the package after leaving it in the common mail room, they were not able to help further. I will look in to contacting my credit card company . Thanks for the help.

ya_tabman22 · ‎06-08-2021

I'm not sure if the seller purchased signature confirmation, but based on Ebays wording, the seller must purchase this for any item over $750.

This was a GSP purchase. Does that have any implications in this case?

I will look in to Flex delivery. Thanks for your input on this.

marnotom! · ‎06-08-2021

Since the seller for a GSP-forwarded item is only responsible for shipping the item to the forwarding hub in Kentucky, any signature confirmation they purchase would only apply to shipping to Kentucky. It would be up to Pitney Bowes and/or the forwarding agent to determine if Signature Confirmation was required or necessary for the Kentucky-to-you legs of your item’s transit.

stuffishere · ‎06-09-2021

The GSP is responsible and your parcel must have been insured. Find out all the ways your parcel was shipped and by whom, read the fine print of their legal liability, if all else fails report Pitney Bowes to your BBB local office. Another way is involving your political Federal party representative in your riding. You would be surprised jow effective it is to assemble as much information and documents you can, and then start reporting snd claiming FRAUD.

sonometrics · ‎06-19-2021

Be aware that some items are being stolen by the delivery person. They will take a photo of the item on your front porch and then pick up the item and take it back to the truck. This was in the news a few weeks ago, a woman in SW-ontario with a security camera caught the whole thing, went to the media, they ran the story. This was an amazon purchase in this case, might have been intelcom delivery.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎06-19-2021

@ya_tabman22

Have you been in touch with the carrier directly that delivered your parcel? You might be able to get more details of what exactly happened with your parcel from your end explaining the situation.(And so they can put something on file so it doesn't happen again.) In this case though, if by now you haven't been in touch it "may" be too late. Going forward, when expecting parcels you may want to check with the building office to see if something more secure can be arranged.

-Lotz

15westcoast · ‎06-21-2021

Very sad that people will just steal anything. The shoes most likely will not even fit the

thief. They may end up on a "used " site for sale. I had an Ebay delivery placed in the wrong

community mailbox after tracking showed delivered. Thought it was gone for good. A week

later ( I called the Post Office Sorting Depot) it showed up in my box. It had been opened but

the recipient clearly was honest and returned the item to the post office. The Sorting Depot said

they would contact the delivery driver and see if he could recall what box the package was placed in.

Never found out the answer to that but the item was returned.

richardcm · ‎06-21-2021

@15westcoast wrote:
Very sad that people will just steal anything. The shoes most likely will not even fit the
thief. They may end up on a "used " site for sale. I had an Ebay delivery placed in the wrong
community mailbox after tracking showed delivered. Thought it was gone for good. A week
later ( I called the Post Office Sorting Depot) it showed up in my box. It had been opened but
the recipient clearly was honest and returned the item to the post office. The Sorting Depot said
they would contact the delivery driver and see if he could recall what box the package was placed in.
Never found out the answer to that but the item was returned.

I live in a townhouse complex with another townhouse complex up the street. I get two or three deliveries a month for the same unit number but for the other complex. I walk them over the same day or the next when taking my dog Ginger for a walk.

No problem with doing that. I understand that drivers make mistakes. But I wonder if the pictures they take “proving” it was delivered is valid proof. My house has stairs to the door. The other house had a flat ground level entrance. But if the picture is of the package right in front of the door on the door mat, no way to tell which door it was left at. Black matt. White door. Townhouses built by the same developer 15 years ago. A picture is no proof in my opinion.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎06-21-2021

@richardcm wrote:
@15westcoast wrote:
Very sad that people will just steal anything. The shoes most likely will not even fit the
thief. They may end up on a "used " site for sale. I had an Ebay delivery placed in the wrong
community mailbox after tracking showed delivered. Thought it was gone for good. A week
later ( I called the Post Office Sorting Depot) it showed up in my box. It had been opened but
the recipient clearly was honest and returned the item to the post office. The Sorting Depot said
they would contact the delivery driver and see if he could recall what box the package was placed in.
Never found out the answer to that but the item was returned.

I live in a townhouse complex with another townhouse complex up the street. I get two or three deliveries a month for the same unit number but for the other complex. I walk them over the same day or the next when taking my dog Ginger for a walk.

No problem with doing that. I understand that drivers make mistakes. But I wonder if the pictures they take “proving” it was delivered is valid proof. My house has stairs to the door. The other house had a flat ground level entrance. But if the picture is of the package right in front of the door on the door mat, no way to tell which door it was left at. Black matt. White door. Townhouses built by the same developer 15 years ago. A picture is no proof in my opinion.

I received a package recently that had the right number but wrong street on it. In phoning UPS asking for them to come and make the switch, they said no problem but never arrived. The parcel happened to have the customers phone number..... Something many online sellers do not consider important. A +++++ so was able to contact. They came by and picked it up 15 minutes later and were most appreciative for the call. Some online sellers suggest just keeping anything received in error. (Will not name names but it has been reported many times.) To my mind and conscience not the right thing to do. As noted above drivers can and do make mistakes but parcels should never be left in a common area or in plain sight.

-Lotz

itolduandso · ‎06-21-2021

This is so upsetting. Ebay just cherry picks what it wants to deal with, because even the policy it has more holes in it than Swiss cheese. All we fight for is to avoid losing money for packages lost and here is a buyer who seems relatively casual buyer who shells out 750 dollars (I would love to have such a buyer on my feedback profile for sure) and gets steam-rolled by incompetence of the billion dollar platform.

Ebay doesn't seem to even be able to please the buyers, so how on earth can you expect Ebay to please sellers? Pipe dream.

I see many packages left by UPS and Fedex around the town all the time. Just walking around after 9pm when it gets dark I could fill a pickup with all those packages left in front of the porch. This WAS already a big issue before the pandemics started, so it's not a novel problem now. Recently I received a cell phone valued at $500 send from my cell company through UPS and the box was left in front of the door of our building. I called my cell phone company and they told me there is nothing they can do. It's lax nature of delivery guys (delivering packages sucks now, I imagine) but still, I would rather have them take the package with them and I pickup at UPS when I have time. They leave that $500 outside and if it's gone, there would be an issue.

@ya_tabman22
Please update us on how this gets resolved. You have the best chances with your credit card company, because - hey - the credit card company refunds are so easy, it makes us sellers to get crashed by fradulent buyers. So I can't imagine reason your credit card company would not want to issue you are refund right away. If they don't just don't pay the bill, collect evidence and send a letter in writing ny registered mail demanding cancellation of the payment.

15westcoast · ‎06-22-2021

Don't know if you remember the old episode on the the TV Show Cheers !

Cliff, the postman, was showing Woody how things were done delivering the

mail. They were in an apartment lobby and Cliff showed Woody how he deposited

letters in the various mailboxes and how easy it was. After they left the building all

the tenants appeared and exchanged mail with one another as it was in the wrong boxes.

15westcoast · ‎06-22-2021

I have had the drivers not deliver when the tracking shows delivered. Place the

package in the wrong postal box and deliver the package for pick-up at the

wrong postal outlet (many miles away) I have phoned the sorting depot here in

Victoria several times about these issues. Funny, they always tell me the same thing

"It is a new driver ". I guess being able to read and pay attention are not

necessary for drivers.

marnotom! · ‎06-22-2021

@itolduandso wrote:

This is so upsetting. Ebay just cherry picks what it wants to deal with, because even the policy it has more holes in it than Swiss cheese. All we fight for is to avoid losing money for packages lost and here is a buyer who seems relatively casual buyer who shells out 750 dollars (I would love to have such a buyer on my feedback profile for sure) and gets steam-rolled by incompetence of the billion dollar platform.

This is an upsetting situation, to be sure, but I'm not sure what you mean by "cherrypicking" here. eBay will ensure that the buyer receives their money back for an item when there's no satisfactory proof that the item was delivered. The kicker here is that the requirement for signature confirmation for a $750 item has been modified in light of COVID. If the seller shipped with signature confirmation and there's online tracking proving delivery, they've ticked the right boxes for proof of delivery and are protected against a buyer claim of non-delivery.

If the item went missing after delivery, it's not an eBay issue. It's for someone else to handle, such as law authorities. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is. It's a bit like buying a new car, driving it off the lot and ten minutes later getting t-boned by an impaired driver. It's not the car dealer's responsibility to replace the car or offer a refund. That's the insurance company's job.

itolduandso · ‎06-22-2021

All the problems the buyer described are because of the new process ebay has. A few years ago this situation would be a non-issue and resolved quickly. If the sale is over 750 and the signature confirmation was required, it is not buyers responsibility to call some shipping insurance companies. The buyer didn't buy from the seller's website but from ebay platform and ebay dictates the rules. The buyer had trusted the system and the system failed. If the buyer was buyer from a seller's webstore, the buyer will likely perceive higher level of risk-awareness and likely check their feedback and references. This is exactly the reason why Amazon *is* successful.

With regards to comparison, if you have agreement with the dealer to deliver your newly purchased car in front of your house and the car gets T-boned, it's not your responsibility if the dealer gets the car wrecked after the purchase. The transaction ends with successful delivery.

marnotom! · ‎06-22-2021

@itolduandso wrote:

All the problems the buyer described are because of the new process ebay has. A few years ago this situation would be a non-issue and resolved quickly. If the sale is over 750 and the signature confirmation was required, it is not buyers responsibility to call some shipping insurance companies. The buyer didn't buy from the seller's website but from ebay platform and ebay dictates the rules. The buyer had trusted the system and the system failed.

It's not so much a "new process" as it is a workaround while COVID is complicating things. It's an allowance for the fact that shipping companies are not doing signature on delivery right now. My wife is an online shopaholic and I accept or take in a lot of the parcels that arrive at our door. Prior to late spring 2020, I probably had to electronically sign or give my name for about half her shipments. I haven't had to do this since, and she purchases from a number of online retailers. It's not just an eBay thing.

The buyer may have purchased from "the eBay platform" but the buyer did not purchase from eBay itself. eBay is a marketplace facilitator, just as PayPal is a payment facilitator. The eBay system did not fail. It worked as it is supposed to do: If there's sufficient online evidence of delivery to the address (not the buyer) on file for the transaction and everything else is in order for seller protection, the item is considered to be successfully delivered. The buyer needs to work this out with the seller. The only reason these "rules" are in place is to thwart sellers who may choose not to do the right thing when dealing with buyer claims of non-delivery. In an ideal world, eBay or anybody else other than the buyer and seller shouldn't need to get involved in non-delivery disputes.

@itolduandso wrote:

With regards to comparison, if you have agreement with the dealer to deliver your newly purchased car in front of your house and the car gets T-boned, it's not your responsibility if the dealer gets the car wrecked after the purchase. The transaction ends with successful delivery.

Yup. No quibbles with that. And the buyer's purchase ended with successful delivery, as well, or at least it's being made to look like that by the shipping company.

If that car being delivered to the buyer's house got delivered as per the buyer's instructions but succumbed to a sinkhole overnight, it would still be considered successfully delivered. The buyer simply didn't provide the dealer with a secure enough place for the vehicle.

I apologize if I'm coming off as a hard[derriere] here or like Joe Friday, but there is no "cherrypicking" going on here. eBay and PayPal have conditions in place for buyer claims of non-delivery. Unfortunately, they've had to be modified in light of pandemic realities and shipping companies' reactions to them.

As a footnote, we don't really know enough about this sale to make throrough judgement calls. For all we know, this item could have been forwarded by the Global Shipping Program which adds another layer of "facilitation" to this whole sale and would make it difficult for the buyer to deal with the seller as the seller's responsibility for the item's safe passage ended long before it reached Canada.

reallynicestamps · ‎06-22-2021

Well no.

The problem is that there is a THIEF living in the building.

The THEFT should be reported to the police.

The OP's tenant insurance may cover the theft.

The building supervisor, if there is one, should also be notified. If the super doesn't do it, the OP should put up notices in the mail room (or wherever packages are left) letting other tenants know about the theft.

A picture of the purchased shoes (with size) could also be attached with a request that anyone seeing the shoes (in the package or on someone's feet) should get in touch with the super.

The police report number on the notice might be useful.

Primary responsibility is with the thief.

Secondary, but more likely to be successful is with the delivery company which did not assure safe delivery.

The buyer simply didn't provide the dealer with a secure enough place for the vehicle.

itolduandso · ‎06-27-2021

OK, so basically the point is the signature option was not purchased because it is not available as an option (and I assume ebay is not enforcing it either) or the signature option was available to purchase but the carrier doesn't need to obtain the signature (waste of money for Signature option in that case).

So in that case I get it, UPS has done what they were supposed to do because Signature wasn't needed.

I have been living in a bat cave for over a year when covid broke out so I missed a lot of that what was going on with carriers. Now it all makes sense.

But when things go back to normal and UPS leaves the package (with signature option) in the building without getting the signature (assuming that includes checking the person's ID) then it's UPS that is responsible becaues the service and package was not delivered.