Item received after refund, should I also pay back to Pitney Bowes Limited?

[manchunalata-0]

Hi,

I purchased an item which did not show up within the estimated delivery date so I asked and got a refund from ebay. However, I received the item finally a week after the refund so I should pay back the seller. May I know how to do that? According to my PayPal transaction record, I paid an amount A (item price + shipping) to the seller and another amount B (import charges + shipping, not sure why ‘shipping’ splits into two parts) to Pitney Bowes Limited. Should I just pay the total A+B back to the seller, or should I pay the corresponding amount B to Pitney Bowes Limited (if so, how)? Thanks.

[reallynicestamps · Accepted solution]

The refund was not given by the seller.

Her responsibility for delivery ended at the GSP plant door.

She kept her payment and all is well on that front.

The refund was made by the GSP/Pitney Bowes.

Now here is the ethical question.

It is not ethical to keep both the item and the payment.

However, PB/GSP covers their costs for lost and delayed shipments with an insurance policy, your refund actually came from that insurance company, and the refund was part of the insurance company's daily business.

I would suggest if you feel uncomfortable keeping both, that you donate to a charitable organization-- like your local Food Bank or one that is tangentially similar* to the purchase-- an amount equivalent to the refund.

*Your FB indicates you buy a lot of cellphone and related equipment. Is there a local charity that trains the underemployed in repairs to equipment or even just sales?

[ypdc_dennis]

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@manchunalata-0 wrote:

I purchased an item which did not show up within the estimated delivery date so I asked and got a refund from ebay. However, I received the item finally a week after the refund so I should pay back the seller. May I know how to do that? According to my PayPal transaction record, I paid an amount A (item price + shipping) to the seller and another amount B (import charges + shipping, not sure why ‘shipping’ splits into two parts) to Pitney Bowes Limited. Should I just pay the total A+B back to the seller, or should I pay the corresponding amount B to Pitney Bowes Limited (if so, how)? Thanks.

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You bought an item that shipped via the Global Shipping Program.

The seller shipped to Kentucky (amount A)

and Pitney-Bowes handled the rest of the journey and any taxes (amount B).

You should be able to refund the refund.

tyler@ebay 

...

[manchunalata-0]

Thanks. The very first thing I need to make sure is I don't owe the seller for anything. Yes I checked and my PayPal transaction record shows that my refund was made by 'eBay' (PB/GSP insurance company) not the seller so I think I can safely assume that side is settled.

Now for sure I don't feel right to keep both my payment and the item...so I'll take your advice and donate a similar amount to a charity, or giveaway one of my old phones. Thanks again and have a good day.

[tyler@ebay]

Thanks for the tag @ypdc_dennis!

Hi @manchunalata-0 - sorry to hear that your item was so delayed! For items that are delayed or considered lost in transit from the Global Shipping Programme to you we hold the international shipper accountable. That is to say, the refund came from us (eBay) not the seller you purchased it from. 

We don't expect you to refund that money - nor do we have a way for you to do so. While you are welcome to keep it, I really like the idea of making a contribution to a charity or organization you feel strongly about!  

[frankieandjohnnie]

I made a purchase from a US seller. I am in Canada. It was shipped via International Shipping. Not sure if it's the same as Global Shipping Program. However, to make a long story short, it was delayed and impossible to track for days. The main issue here is that once the package arrives at the HUB, it stayed there for almost two weeks. Then, I was assuming it would be handled by USPS and then Canada Post once in Canada (as it always does) but no, they brought in DHL which charged me almost 100$ Canadiand dollars in duties and taxes for a 200$ US used scarf. I paid promptly to avoid any further delays. Then, it was not moving for another week so I contacted Ebay to know what was going on and complain. I asked to be refunded if the item was not delivered within the delivery window. They issued a refund on that day which I did not ask for. I guess the Supervisor handling the case decided it would not be delivered on time as there was only 2 business days left. But the item got delivered. Seller asks for return. I said I would be happy to return but I will not pay for the return and I want to be refunded for the fees. She said she lost her money but when I contacted Ebay (twice to make sure), they said I did not have to return the item because the case was closed and the seller did not lose any money, they said the seller was protected by the International Shipping Program. Who do I trust now ? I am an honest person. This situation never occurred before. I always find shipping slow from the US to Canada and cost is quite high but I always received my items before the due date. 

[frankieandjohnnie]

I forgot to mention that DHL was not even handling the delivery. The package was then transferred to UniUni, a carrier with very bad reviews. At least, in my region. Therefore, I was really worried as I purchased a valuable item that is hard to find and the seller did nothing wrong. The problems started at the HUB. I find the shipping from the US is always very slow and expensive considering they always use USPS. It would save a lot of time and money for the buyer to have the seller ship directly to the buyer. In the meantime, I did some research as what I found on this thread was useful but I was not sure it was applicable to my case because the seller said she lost her money. I would like to know who will refund me the duties and taxes fees if I return the item. When I contacted Ebay, they said the seller did not lose her money. How can I be sure of that ? I do not feel the seller is dishonest. Maybe she did not get the correct information as the page I found (Ebay International Shipping Program) says the seller is protected if a refund is made to the buyer for a lost, delayed or damaged package.

[marnotom!]

@frankieandjohnnie, given the complexity of your question it would have been better to start a new thread about this as older threads tend to get shut down by moderators as threads like these tend to go out of date pretty quickly.  This one makes reference to the Global Shipping Program which is no longer a thing in the US (it is in the UK) and the employee who posted to this thread no longer works for eBay.

Having said all that, there may be the possibility that your item was sent through eBay International Standard Delivery, which does not offer the same sort of seller protections as the old Global Shipping Program and the present eBay International Shipping service.  I think that's pretty unlikely, however, as eBay International Standard delivery should have seen your item handled by Canada Post once in Canada.

There's the possibility that your seller may be genuinely confused about how eIS operates and has misunderstood the communication they received through eBay about your case of a non-delivered item.  A scan of the American discussion boards suggests that there are some sellers who use eIS who do so without fully understanding how it works.

I think you'd find returning the scarf more hassle than its worth.  The seller will probably not be able to issue you a return shipping label as they're in the US and you're with us here in Canada, so they'll have to send you the funds to do that somehow.  The seller didn't charge you the duties, taxes, and customs-related fees, so they can't give you a refund on those.  You'd have to fill out a form to send to Canada Border Services, and they'll likely only refund you the duties and taxes and not any of the customs-related charges that were charged by DHL(?) and by the looks of things, those charges (often referred to as "brokerage charges") probably made up more than half of what you were charged at pickup.

If you're happy with the scarf, I think you're best just leaving well enough alone and suggest to the seller that they take things up with eBay if they believe they weren't protected properly by eIS.

[frankieandjohnnie]

Thank you so much for the response. I have not heard from the seller yet so I will let you know how it turned out so that it can help other buyers and sellers. I am not familiar with this but do you recommend that I start a new thread just sharing my experience so that it can help the community ? About the refund for duties and taxes... DHL is well renowned as well as other carriers like FedEx to overcharge consumers and there was also an article in the Newspaper in my province about this not too long ago about complaints from consumers never able to get their money back. It is such a hassle to try to recuperate those fees which is why when I make a purchase and I know I will have to pay duties and taxes, I try to make sure I will not have to return the item as I will never see that money back again. I heard stories of people who waited almost a year before getting their refund through the process you refer to. I understand the seller is not responsible for those fees but if she is not held responsible for Ebay's delay and wrongly processed shipping method, Ebay should refund me those fees if the seller asks me to return the item. The other thing is once I opened the package, I noticed a stain, a pulled thread and the hems all flaten out which were not shown in the pictures. Therefore, if I would not have to pay for the duties and taxes, I would have returned the scarf based on the fact it is not as described. This again is unusual for me because in all the years I have purchased on Ebay (I am a regular customer), I only returned an item once because it was too small and the returns were accepted by the seller so there was no issue there. I don't even understand how the International Shipping Program handled this shipment because there was nothing complicated about it. They should have shipped it from the HUB within just a few business days via USPS/Canada Post like it usually is. Sometimes, they use Intelcom instead of Canada Post once in Canada but I never had issues with those carriers. The problem is their delay in handling this package to a carrier once at the HUB and chosing DHL which did not handle the delivery. Therefore, as a consumer, I was overcharged with fees and the delays were longer. I am not about to purchase from a US seller in the near future. I wish they could ship directly to the buyer, like other countries do. I never have issues with purchases from other countries and I receive my packages way faster. 

[marnotom!]

I suggest you start a new thread about this now so that you can recount the events in an orderly fashion in one post instead of two, and with paragraph breaks so it's easier for us to follow!  😄