eBay

sylviebee · ‎02-04-2020

Just had the worst buying experience.

Bid and won an item and asked seller if she'd ship a second item to me.

When I checked for her response I saw that she had cancelled the transaction giving the reason that there was something wrong with my shipping address.

There is nothing wrong with my address. The seller uses the GSP and didn't understand that she only had to ship to the hub in the States.

I spent multiple emails explaining to her and she also called eBay. In the end she told me just didn't "feel like shipping to the hub." She has a lot of items all listed with GSP shipping.

I left her Negative FeedBack. That FB was removed before the hour was up.

Just called eBay and was told that it shouldn't have been removed but she wouldn't/couldn't reinstate it. Really?

That's the only NFB I've left in about 5 years and I buy a lot here. I thought long and hard before doing it.

TYLER, can you put the FB back?

Whenever I've asked to have FB removed I've had to jump through hoops or given a flat out "NO" even when it should have been removed.

Tyler can you help? That FB should be reinstated.

esclyons · ‎02-04-2020

seller might not even know, they are in the Global Sipping Program..

sylviebee · ‎02-04-2020

@esclyons wrote:
seller might not even know, they are in the Global Sipping Program..

Spent a lot of emails explaining to her and asked her to re-list via BIN once she understood that she wouldn't have to ship out of the States.

She knew.

tyler@ebay · ‎02-04-2020

Hi @sylviebee - that sounds like a really awful experience, I'm sorry it happened.

The short answer to your question is no: once a FB has been removed it isn't something I can reinstate, regardless of the removal.

I will review the situation to make sure that the proper coaching is given to the teammates involved.

Tyler,

sylviebee · ‎02-05-2020

tyler@ebay wrote:
Hi @sylviebee - that sounds like a really awful experience, I'm sorry it happened.

The short answer to your question is no: once a FB has been removed it isn't something I can reinstate, regardless of the removal.

I will review the situation to make sure that the proper coaching is given to the teammates involved.

Thank you Tyler but I sent you a message.

teenytrinkets · ‎02-05-2020

I'm sorry, but I side with the seller on this one. She doesn't HAVE to sell to you. If she's uncomfortable shipping to that address because she doesn't understand how it works, or otherwise, that's her prerogative- isn't it? Just like it's yours to change your mind or decide you don't feel like paying!

And you left a neg because you couldn't badger her into selling it to you and shipping to an address she didn't want to? I would've asked for it to be removed, too.

sylviebee · ‎02-05-2020

@teenytrinkets wrote:
I'm sorry, but I side with the seller on this one. She doesn't HAVE to sell to you. If she's uncomfortable shipping to that address because she doesn't understand how it works, or otherwise, that's her prerogative- isn't it? Just like it's yours to change your mind or decide you don't feel like paying!

And you left a neg because you couldn't badger her into selling it to you and shipping to an address she didn't want to? I would've asked for it to be removed, too.

This seller has dozens of items listed and all are listed with shipping via the Global Shipping Program. That means that she only has to ship to the hub in the States.

If you agree with the seller you either didn't read my posts or you don't understand the GSP. (Probably both are true.)

AND no, of course it's not her prerogative to refuse to ship the way she has agreed to do in her listing. (Seriously?)

teenytrinkets · ‎02-05-2020

Seriously! Sellers can cancel at any time if they don't feel comfortable with the transaction. Obviously she didn't, thus the cancellation and her not wanting to deal with you anymore. She's likely blocked you now that you've left a neg.

pjcdn2005 · ‎02-05-2020

Sorry but it is not ok for a seller to cancel a transaction just because they no longer want to ship to a location their listing said that they will ship to. It is their responsibility to make those decisions before they set up their listing and to understand how things work. It is possible that they did not realize that they were set up to ship internationally with the gsp but once it was explained that they were responsible only to ship to a location within their own country then they should have shipped...comfortable or not. They could have easily read the info on eBay about how the program works.

Why should a buyer spend their time looking through listings and making a decision onwhich items to purchase if a seller can just change their mind? It’s not professional and reflects upon all sellers on the site. It can also cause buyers to shop on other sites instead of eBay.

ricarmic · ‎02-05-2020

I agree, the problem this could eventually cause is that if enough sellers use the "loophole" of incorrect address to avoid defects, it won't be an option anymore, or it will become a "defective" option too, neither of which is good.

sylviebee · ‎02-05-2020

@teenytrinkets wrote:
Seriously! Sellers can cancel at any time if they don't feel comfortable with the transaction.

No! that is WRONG on so many levels and couldn't be further from the truth.

I ended up speaking with one of the "higher ups" and she suggested that I report the seller. I told her that I didn't feel there was any point to that but she quickly corrected me.

I was told that things have recently changed and that eBay now takes it very seriously when a seller is reported, as they should.

She also explained that cancellations of this type are viewed very negatively and one of the worst things a seller can do. She told me that she'd file the report on my behalf with special notification to follow up on the situation including an investigation into the rep who removed the NFB.

There was no reason given why the FB was removed and I'm left wondering if the seller has a best friend working for eBay. Something is very Off with what happened to me.

sylviebee · ‎02-05-2020

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
Sorry but it is not ok for a seller to cancel a transaction just because they no longer want to ship to a location their listing said that they will ship to. It is their responsibility to make those decisions before they set up their listing and to understand how things work. It is possible that they did not realize that they were set up to ship internationally with the gsp but once it was explained that they were responsible only to ship to a location within their own country then they should have shipped...comfortable or not. They could have easily read the info on eBay about how the program works.

Why should a buyer spend their time looking through listings and making a decision onwhich items to purchase if a seller can just change their mind? It’s not professional and reflects upon all sellers on the site. It can also cause buyers to shop on other sites instead of eBay.

Thank You. That's exactly right.

I carefully explained how the GSP works and so did eBay when she called them.

She could/should have shipped to me and taken it as a lesson learned. If she doesn't want to use the GSP she should remove it from her items.

She has over 100 listings and all are listed with GSP shipping and she hasn't altered a single listing. In fact, most of the listings ended last night and she re-listed those items and more all with GSP shipping.

It really looks like she just wanted more money for the item.

teenytrinkets · ‎02-05-2020

Sorry if I misunderstood, but definitely if the seller just wanted more money that's bad. But it'll be easy to see that if she relists for more.

I'm only speaking from my personal experience when I've cancelled a transaction due to the shipping address being off. It could very well be that I was ignorant or paranoid, but it didn't smell right (she was in Thailand, and it was some sort of 3rd party address) ...and when that happens, I know I'm asking for trouble.

You're right that I have no experience shipping to a hub. Can I ask why you do that? I always ship my US orders to a US address (which is a pick up place close tonight the border). I always use that address when I purchase. Only in one case did a seller balk that i had a Canadian account and she didn't ship to Canada. I just told her to look at the shipping address on my offer and that calmed her down.

I'm truly not a fan of leaving negs for a seller when a transaction was not completed - especially if the issue was due to inexperience or ignorance. If you suspected she canceled the transaction to relist at a higher price, I probably would've waited to catch her in the act to be sure.

At the end of the day, no purchase is worth that much effort if the seller refuses to listen. You're just better off to quit while you're ahead and buy from someone else! She obviously didn't deserve your money, anyway!

travis7s · ‎02-05-2020

eBay has a "Global Shipping Program" that US sellers can use. Basically they act as a freight forwarder and deal with the international logistics. So all the seller has to do is ship to the eBay "hub" in Kentucky and then they are done. If the package is lost after that, GSP is responsible.

I see both sides to this but sellers cancelling for no good is bad for us all. That could be a good buyer who may leave eBay forever and will likely spread the word about how bad it is.

femmefan1946 · ‎02-06-2020

Sellers can cancel at any time if they don't feel comfortable with the transaction.

No. Sellers can cancel any bid on an Auction without explanation, but once there is a Fixed Price purchase or an Auction win, there are few reasons the seller can cancel without penalty.

One is Buyer Request. @sylviebee did not request
Another is Problem with Address. The seller was signed up for the GSP and apparently is still signed up for GSP. We sellers use this sometimes when a buyer pays for domestic shipping but gives an overseas address. Or if the address is incomplete.

Anything else and the seller gets a Defect. Those are nasty.

I have no experience shipping to a hub.

Well, actually that was probably what your Thai customer was using.

A freight forwarder (GSP is one, chitchatexpress another) receives shipments at a central address (a hub) then reships/forwards those shipments to their customers.

The buyer's MBG basically ends at the forwarder's doorstep.

a US address (which is a pick up place close tonight the border).

Unless your US address is your own mailbox, you lose your MBG at that point too.

Not quite a forwarder, because you are personally picking up and dropping off, but very close.

She obviously didn't deserve your money, anyway!

I'm with you on that, especially since she didn't even seem to want to learn.

sylviebee · ‎02-06-2020

While I want to thank everyone for their input, the comments are generally missing the point.

It's not about whether the seller was entitled to cancel the transaction or not, it was about what took place after the cancellation.

I put a lot of time and effort into politely and patiently explaining the GSP to her and we exchanged numerous emails. (Mine very thoughtful / Hers flippant and uncaring. Very Frustrating!) In the end she finally understood the GSP and then even called eBay to figure out what she had to do to get the parcel to me. After all that she told me that it was too much trouble to ship to the hub (If it's too much trouble why didn't she remove the GSP from her existing listings and add it to her new listings?)

She treated me very badly. I buy on average about 5 items a week and have been doing so for well over a decade or two. I have not left NFB for about 5 years in spite of the fact that many of those transactions were horrible........ the absolute dregs.

This seller pushed me so far over the edge that I made an exception and left her NFB because she really had it coming bad. For me to break my own FB rule took a lot.

When I checked to see if she had a response about half an hour later the FB had been removed.

There was absolutely no legitimate reason for the FB removal and when I asked the reps to check (I called several times because I just couldn't believe it) no reason for the removal was given and none could see a reason for the removal.

I'm annoyed because I have no voice. I have no idea why, but I am sure that this seller either has a very good friend working at eBay or with the current air in the US others don't get the same respect American sellers do when buying and selling .com.

Something is very off.

teenytrinkets · ‎02-08-2020

I guess the confusion is the lack of clarity behind using the "problem with address" cancellation reason.

It's the only reason sellers can use that doesn't involve a defect, so it's probably already being abused, either directly or indirectly.

As far as canceling an order for not shipping to a freight forwarder, this SHOULD be considered a "problem with address". Not in my opinion (I enjoy picking up my packages in the US, thanks!) but it is the opinion of many retailers.

I've had many an order canceled by retailers (the big "sellers") after spending my time shopping on their website because I'm shipping to a freight forwarder (a couple of smaller cosmetics companies, Sephora, Best Buy, Costco, Home Depot). Their system has a database of freight forwarding addresses, and if the shipping address is one of them, your order is canceled (and not processed or refunded). I've also had one retailer (Ulta) cancel orders because you're not ordering from within the USA. After I figured that out, I started using a VPN. Then they started flagging the VPNs, so you keep having to use new VPNs to avoid a cancellation.

My point about all of this is that all these retailers don't need to give a reason. They just cancel. And you never know why! I've called before to ask why. Sometimes they know, sometimes they don't.

So my question is: why should it be any different on Ebay? I shouldn't HAVE to ship to someone if the transaction has gone bad. I shouldn't HAVE to get a defect if my buyer is an A-HOLE and I think shipping to them is risky.

I get really ticked off about buyers having so much POWER. They can change their minds. They can sit and not pay for a week or more. They can return an item at ZERO expense to them. They can leave a neg even if they're a jerk to me, but i can't leave them a neg if they don't pay or they tried to scam me?! That's complete BS.

While I am sympathetic to the OP and her attempt to keep her transaction in tact, especially b after educating the seller, at the end of the day, Ebay sellers shouldn't have to be held at higher standards than regular retailers. And if the "problem with address" is the one loophole sellers can use to not get the shaft, I'll take it (and let's be honest sellers- we take it up the tailpipe every effin day!).

So ultimately, the question of whether or not the seller had a right to have her neg removed lies in the clarification of what "problem with address" really means, and if all Ebay staff are trained to know those details. Because, as I've mentioned, there's plenty of retailers that "have a problem " with certain addresses in their own country!

sylviebee · ‎02-09-2020

teeny: NO, the problem isn't with the clarity behind using "the problem with address" reason for the cancellation.

The problem is that eBay removed the FB I left without a valid reason for doing so. As I pointed out previously, during the past 5 years or so I haven’t left a single NFB (about 1,000 transactions) even though numerous transactions were in fact negative. This transaction was so horrible that I broke my own rule and left NFB which eBay removed minutes later. Talk about letting a buyer know she doesn’t matter. They erased my voice without a thought.

Whether or not you or eBay (or even I) believe the seller had a valid reason for cancelling the transaction is 100% irrelevant. The only thing that matters, or should matter, is my assessment of the transaction.

Second, your post shows that you have no understanding of the Global Shipping Program (GSP). Yes, the GSP is technically a freight forwarder, but it’s also eBay’s baby and nothing like other freight forwarders. The GSP is eBay created, eBay sanctioned, only serves eBay, and it’s very much an endorsed part of eBay.com and eBay.UK international shipping.

It’s true that eBay used to sneak it into seller’s listings without their knowledge, but that’s no longer the case.

Sellers who opt to ship internationally are now asked to pick one type of International shipping: either the GSP or regular postal service. Sellers now simply have to check one box or the other if they choose to ship out of the US..

My seller knowingly opted to ship via the GSP and continues to do so with her new listings. Yet, you defend her cancellation due to a “problem with the address” as being legit and that’s far from the truth.

Clearly there’s something else going on here, both with erasing my assessment of the transaction and the seller’s reason for the cancellation.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎02-09-2020

@sylviebee

I'm in total agreement with your concerns and frustration.That's been the problem all along. Can happen on both sides for assorted reasons. Either a buyer or seller selecting the wrong option/reason - Either accidentally or on purpose or lack of options and the buyer/seller choosing - Close Enough when in fact its farthest from the truth. These are the tools we have been given by eBay. In cases where something wrong was checked it is "almost" impossible to fix after the fact. This is what causes most of the frustration for buyers and sellers. Problems not being fairly resolved when explanations were given. Hearing, yes we agree with you, with the sole purpose to get to the next caller really is not very helpful.

If I look back at my cases that have been opened/and or eBay resolved over the past several years 95% were inaccurately described. Trying to amend was a extremely painful process. In the bulk of those cases eBay never fixed in the 7 to 10 days as advised by eBay when I was told they would...."No problem". The only reason they are easy to remember is because of how difficult they were to deal with from start to end. (Almost like a recurring dream you can't get out of your head.)

-Lotz

sylviebee · ‎02-09-2020

@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:
@sylviebee

In cases where something wrong was checked it is "almost" impossible to fix after the fact. This is what causes most of the frustration for buyers and sellers. Problems not being fairly resolved when explanations were given. Hearing, yes we agree with you, with the sole purpose to get to the next caller really is not very helpful.

Yes, in my case I keep being told that, yes, there was no legitimate reason for removing the FB but we can't reverse that action.

Really?

Why not? Should be as simple as the push of a button.

It was their mistake, not mine.