eBay

thejazzgui · ‎05-13-2017

Hi, I just received an iPad in the mail that I bid on a few days ago. I paid normal price for an iPad of its specifications. I just took it out of the package today. It has pretty substantial damage on all four corners, and a somewhat small but definitely noticeable scuff on the screen. The glass of the screen is lifting a bit in the most damaged corner. It has clearly been dropped several times in its lifetime.

I know some people don't take as much care of their devices, but I wouldn't have bid on the item had I been aware of that. The photo on the listing showed the iPad in its plastic seal that they usually ship in, so it distorts the iPad and makes any damage impossible to discern.

So while there isn't a particular part of the listing which is misleading, it seems dishonest that the seller wouldn't disclose the damage present. I always feel bad about opening a claim or contacting the seller, should I in this case? He doesn't accept returns.

sylviebee · ‎05-13-2017

YES!!!!!

Open a claim for item not as described or one of the other options which is appropriate. They've recently added more options to the list of possible complaints so either be careful to choose the correct one or keep it simple and stick to INAD.

Some sellers will ship anything out hoping that buyers will let it slide, and apparently some do as evidenced by your doubts about whether or not to file a claim.

Remember that sellers pay return shipping when items are not as described.

AND,

If the seller intends to file a damage claim with the shipper, returning the item negates the insurance claim.

There are several possible reasons that sellers use this selling tactic (selling items with more damage than described), but all of them are bad for you.

momcqueen · ‎05-13-2017

Exactly what Sylvie said with one additional thought: if you decide to leave feedback for the seller on this transaction, wait until the Resolution Centre case is closed and you have your refund. Then be as honest and factual about this as you feel the need to be.

momcqueen · ‎05-13-2017

Also, study this. It's the actual MoneyBack Guarantee. Going into it educated means you won't waste time wondering if what the seller is telling you is true.

http://pages.ebay.ca/ebay-money-back-guarantee/

And come back for more advice if and when you need it.

momcqueen · ‎05-13-2017

It continues here if you miss the little link at the bottom of the page that I previously cited:

http://pages.ebay.ca/ebay-money-back-guarantee/how-to-help.html

maggiebvintage2010 · ‎05-13-2017

Is it possible that this damage was sustained in transit? If so, save the packaging, take photos and notify the seller so they can initiate an insurance claim through their shipper. You should get a complete refund from the seller, and co-operate with any investigation by the shipper. If there is damage and it is not described honestly in the listing, and the listing photo is taken in such a way as to hide that damage, I don't understand your comment that there "isn't a particular part of the listing which is misleading". You have sold a few things yourself. How would you have described the iPad if you were selling it? Would you have asked the same price and not disclosed damage?

Why should you feel bad about contacting the seller or opening a claim? It means nothing that the seller doesn't accept returns - eBay rules override that. All that statement pertains to is cases where the buyer changed their mind after receipt (remorse return). In cases of Item Not as Described, eBay requires that the seller pay for return shipping and refund the buyer the complete purchase price plus any original shipping charges when the case is found in the buyer's favour. A case opened initially through PayPal however, requires that the buyer pay for return shipping. So contact the seller nicely advising of the damage. Allow 2-3 days for a reply. If no reply, or not to your satisfaction, go to the eBay Resolution Centre and open a case. If this was shipped through the Global Shipping Program, after opening your case phone eBay and asking for a GSP specialist to ensure that you get back all your shipping and Pitney Bowes fees. I don't believe GSP items need to be returned.

momcqueen · ‎05-13-2017

..... I don't believe GSP items need to be returned.

I feel compelled to clarify that. It's not completely true but it may be in certain cases.

Like any other purchase, a SNAD through the Global Shipping Program (GSP) may be requested by the seller to be returned before a refund is issued. It depends entirely on how the seller proceeds with the claim once the buyer has opened it.

If the seller fights the Return and says any damage that occurred happened in transit or as a result of handling at the GSP hub, then the case is escalated and ebay may refund the buyer without requiring a return of the SNAD item. But if the seller immediately capitulates and says 'yes, return this item for a refund', they send you funds to purchase a Return postage label and it proceeds like any other Return, and the buyer is then automatically refunded when the item shows as delivered to the seller.

How do I know this? Experience.

momcqueen · ‎05-13-2017

Aside from that small detail, you make a very good point about damage in transit.

Although if I shipped electronic devices, I would pack them like carton of raw eggs: very very carefully. Some very delicate items are not even insurable by carriers. It's hard to know what happened. But, you're very right, photographic evidence of the box is an important to the case. It should cite any damage to the shipping container that may or may not exist. In the past, I've had sellers try to claim the carrier wrecked something when it was painfully clear the seller himself had bent it in half to fit it into the box they chose.

reallynicestamps · ‎05-13-2017

Yeah but.....

How does a seller send a Return Shipping Label cross-border?

He can't buy one from Canada Post if he is in the USA and Canadians can't use USPS labels.

Someone mentioned DHL labels at some point but I can't find the reference.

This should NOT stop the OP from pursuing the Dispute. She didn't get what she paid for and should be refunded.

momcqueen · ‎05-13-2017

Ebay gives affected seller easy-to-follow instructions for how-to send money to the buyer for the purposes of purchasing a Return label.

momcqueen · ‎05-13-2017

It's like:

1. Determine how much it will cost your buyer to buy return postage to send this back to you with tracking

2. Send the buyer that money via paypal with instructions as to how it is to be used.

3. Upload a copy of your receipt for the money transfer to this case log so we know you did that.

pjcdn2005 · ‎05-13-2017

@mjwl2006 wrote:
..... I don't believe GSP items need to be returned.
I feel compelled to clarify that. It's not completely true but it may be in certain cases.

Like any other purchase, a SNAD through the Global Shipping Program (GSP) may be requested by the seller to be returned before a refund is issued. It depends entirely on how the seller proceeds with the claim once the buyer has opened it.

If the seller fights the Return and says any damage that occurred happened in transit or as a result of handling at the GSP hub, then the case is escalated and ebay may refund the buyer without requiring a return of the SNAD item. But if the seller immediately capitulates and says 'yes, return this item for a refund', they send you funds to purchase a Return postage label and it proceeds like any other Return, and the buyer is then automatically refunded when the item shows as delivered to the seller.

How do I know this? Experience.

You were a buyer in this situation? Once the seller refunded you did you automatically receive back the international portion of the shipping and any import fees? I've heard that when a seller takes the blame for the problem and handles it on their own the system doesn't always realize that amount are also owed by PB.

sylviebee · ‎05-13-2017

I'm not mj, but I've also had a number of GSP returns. The process has evolved very quickly and now it's quite efficient.

I've found that when I file a case for a GSP item, either for INAD or damage, that sellers respond to me quickly with an personal email. I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that the seller in turn contacts the GSP because the process is usually fast and efficient.

One difference between a GSP item and a regular item is that the system does provide a return shipping label when one is needed and items get returned to sellers, not the GSP hub.

It seems that when a seller refunds that this immediately triggers the GSP portion of the refund because the refunds are simultaneous.

It seems automatic now but at first it took a little time to get the GSP portion of the refund.

maggiebvintage2010 · ‎05-14-2017

mjwl2006 & sylviebee: It's good to know the process and thanks both of you for your clarifications. It seems as though things have changed (and improved) over the years, since previous posters told us that no returns were required for GSP items.

momcqueen · ‎05-14-2017

The program has definitely been tweaked.

pjcdn2005 · ‎05-14-2017

@sylviebee wrote:
I'm not mj, but I've also had a number of GSP returns. The process has evolved very quickly and now it's quite efficient.

I've found that when I file a case for a GSP item, either for INAD or damage, that sellers respond to me quickly with an personal email. I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that the seller in turn contacts the GSP because the process is usually fast and efficient.

One difference between a GSP item and a regular item is that the system does provide a return shipping label when one is needed and items get returned to sellers, not the GSP hub.

It seems that when a seller refunds that this immediately triggers the GSP portion of the refund because the refunds are simultaneous.
It seems automatic now but at first it took a little time to get the GSP portion of the refund.

It's interesting that you mention a return shipping label is issued when one is needed as I haven't heard that before. A US seller usually doesn't have a way of refunding the label unless something has changed so I wonder if ebay is doing it and charging it to the seller. But if eBay can do that they should be doing that for all international nad returns.

pjcdn2005 · ‎05-14-2017

@maggiebvintage2010 wrote:
mjwl2006 & sylviebee: It's good to know the process and thanks both of you for your clarifications. It seems as though things have changed (and improved) over the years, since previous posters told us that no returns were required for GSP items.

Sylvia is referring to claims where the seller is found at fault and in those situations the seller can require a return but if it is deemed a gsp problem and the gsp is refunding the full amount, a return isn't required.

marnotom! · ‎05-15-2017

There's some useful (and very recently posted) information on how one seller handled a GSP damage claim where the Program was responsible. Last post:

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Payments/Global-shipping-program-item-damaged/qaq-p/21272652

I think it's pretty safe to assume that the seller did not have the item returned to them.

momcqueen · ‎05-15-2017

I'd like to remind everyone that the 'Global Shipping Program liability' discussion is a red herring. There is nothing in the OP's original post to indicate this item was ever handled by Pitney Bowes, or even damaged in transit for that matter. We're speculating. And off on a tangent to speculate at that.

marnotom! · ‎05-15-2017

Fair point, mjwl2006, but keep in mind that this board has seen a few threads from buyers with damaged items who didn't mention the Global Shipping Program in their initial post even though later posts revealed that the item was forwarded through the GSP.

Considering that the item was an iPad received through the mail and an item like that would likely be sent via a pretty pricey shipping method if shipped directly, I'd say the odds are good that the GSP was involved.