eBay

went4eva · ‎04-30-2017

I bought a set of Kaplan books for around 300 dollars. The seller listed the item location as California, US but the books were shipped from China. There are strong indicators that the books are not authentic. For example, on the back of the books, Kaplan is spelled wrong as "Keplan". The registered trademark symbols on the covers are missing, which is different from the listing picture. No holograms or ISBN bar codes on the back the books... Lots of printing quality issues inside the book... The list can go on and on. So I listed all the problems, took all the pictures and confronted the seller. Seller insists that the books are authentic even after seeing the pictures and offered to refund me IF I remove the negative feedback. I refused and then further escalated this case to Ebay Resolution Center thinking Ebay will help put a stop to this scam. BUT I was totally WRONG.

Just now I got the notice that Ebay decided the case in favor of the seller. They funded the seller and removed the negative feedback I left.

As suggested by Ebay, I also reached out to Kaplan and still waiting to hear back from them to get a official statement. Dear ebayer, would you help give your opinion how to proceed with this case? How does buyer protection work here?

sylviebee · ‎04-30-2017

Thank you for posting here. It's good to know that for counterfeit items it's probably best to keep claims focused on not as described issues as opposed to the more complicated counterfeit angle of the transaction.

reallynicestamps · ‎04-30-2017

it's the fact that these are fake puts me in a very difficult situation. I can't bring the books to class or ask professor questions out of the book.

Sounds like the books are copies*- like photocopying pages from a library book.

So I don't really understand why you can't bring the books to class or ask the prof questions.

The problem doesn't seem to be what is on the page, it's that the copyright has been ignored and/or that some pages are illegible.

Particularly embarrassing for a law student.

But you did answer one question. You still have the books.

Unless they are returned to the seller, eBay and Paypal will not force a refund.

I sent the pictures to the seller in inbox,

Some sellers will accept pictures as an acceptable proof of NAD. Some won't. Again, PP and eBay may accept the seller's decision, but will only force the refund if the item is returned.

Neither takes any stand on 'he said/she said'.

All they will work with is that neither can have both the item and the money.

If you want your money back, you will have to return the books and find them elsewhere. Like in the university bookstore, for one possibility.

* I see and deal with copies of OOP books quite often. Many early SF paperbacks have been reprinted, with permission, by Gregg Press and Easton Press. Some warn that the copies are no better than the physical book copied. Again, these are authorized copies, not counterfeits.

sylviebee · ‎04-30-2017

@reallynicestamps wrote:

Sounds like the books are copies*- like photocopying pages from a library book.
So I don't really understand why you can't bring the books to class or ask the prof questions.
The problem doesn't seem to be what is on the page, it's that the copyright has been ignored and/or that some pages are illegible.
Particularly embarrassing for a law student.

That's what I was getting at when I asked if the books are counterfeits or not true copies of the original.

While it's a drag that they're copies and the buyer has every right to expect originals, they can still serve the same purpose and it doesn't affect their value as learning tools.

went4eva · ‎04-30-2017

If I just wanted the money back, I would have accepted the refund offer from the seller to take down my negative review. But I was angry at the fact that I got duped twice and I wanted to do something to stop this seller scamming more people. That's why I escalated. I believed in eBay that they would make a fair decision.

Well in this case, lesson learned.

Also I have some questions regarding the selling policy here.

1. So it doesn't matter when the item location and actual shipping origin is different?

2. Can you sell items that you have never seen and reply on a third-party supplier for the goods?

momcqueen · ‎04-30-2017

1. No
2. Yes

femmefan1946 · ‎05-01-2017

1. No

A very benign example is that many Canadian sellers in the Toronto and Vancouver areas, actually ship with USPS by using a freight forwarder called chitchatexpress.

This saves both seller and buyer time and money.

2. Yes.

It's called dropshipping and is very popular with lazy and naive sellers, like yours who told you he had no idea what he was selling.

pjcdn2005 · ‎05-01-2017

1. It is against eBay policy to say an item is one location and then ship it from somewhere else but I dont think that it is counted as a not as described issue.

Did the seller ever tell you to return the item for a refund?

went4eva · ‎05-02-2017

Yup, the seller offered return for refund right away. He wants the books back so bad lol I didn't do so and since then he has been bugging me to send the books to Kaplan. He said he could get large amount of money back from the supplier in China if the books are proven fake. Well I don't know man. This guy has been very persistent about his "Keplan" books being authentic so I really question anything he says...

Anyways I am still holding down to the books because of cross-border legal risk and also I need that while I'm working with Kaplan myself. I sent over all the info they asked over two weeks ago and I'm still waiting for their further instruction.

Thank you all for your valuable inputs. I really appreciate it. Seller also msged me yesterday to remind me that I'm wasting too much time on this thing... which is very true. It's been very tiring trying to argue with seller, then eBay while following up with Kaplan and contacting local law enforcement... I will come back and let you know how it settles. Thanks again all! You guys are awesome.

momcqueen · ‎05-02-2017

It's not your job to prove the books are counterfeit.

If you want your money back, you need to return the item for refund. Period. This is the entire reason you lost your case with eBay. eBay isn't interested in your personal mission. They have policies and procedures, you need to follow them.

If the publisher wants a copy of the books from this seller to test their legitimacy, they can buy directly from the seller. They don't need your copies. Or your efforts.

You aren't the Counterfeit Police. If you want your money back from ebay on this, you need to do as you've been told to by eBay.

Kaplan isn't paying you to test for counterfeits.

Sorry to be blunt. But there you have it. This is one of those cases where you can forge some high road of your own making but it won't get you what you want if what you actually want is your money back for this.

ken_0822 · ‎05-15-2017

Hi, I was planning to buy the same thing, would you mind telling me which seller this was to avoid encountering problems? Thanks.

Sorry, if I could not help.

momcqueen · ‎05-15-2017

The Original Poster (OP) cannot publicly name them here without violating the eBay Community values and Terms of Use but I'm sure they'd be happy to reply to your private message.

went4eva · ‎06-22-2017

Hi all, I'm here to let you know the final status of this case. I got my money back through credit card chargeback. Kaplan was very kind to help me prove and resolve this problem. Ebay refused to accept the authentication statement from Kaplan because we missed their deadline.

For potential buyers of such books, I strongly suggest you to ask where the books are actually located before you make the payment. It doesn't matter if the seller tells you that the books are authentic. If it's coming from China and listed location is in the US, I recommend you to buy from elsewhere to avoid potential conflict of interests. If you happen to receive counterfeit books, don't be discouraged. Report to your local police and the publisher. Work from there. The first time I was conned, the seller was nice enough to apologize and offered a refund. The second seller was not so friendly. My local policeman was very helpful too. He told me that the credit card company has the strongest counterfeit enforcement and longest protection period.

Thank you all for your help and advice here. Hope you guys will never have to deal with cases like this.

Cheers!