eBay

habiblip · ‎10-05-2016

I have purchased an Laptop from USA and it shipped to my home in Canada. eBay charge import tax on my Laptop over US$25. I just wonder is there any import or export tax in between US and Canada? according to NAFTA, there should not have any tax for trading between these two countries. Even if there is import tax, whatever ebay charged on my, I have right to have that document. But eBay didn't send me any invoice or document that proved that they pay import tax. eBay has no right to charge on customers for import tax while they really don't pay it. So I want either my money back or import tax invoice with printing my name and address.

It was unexpected from eBay.

Thank you

marnotom! · ‎10-05-2016

@habiblip wrote:

I have purchased an Laptop from USA and it shipped to my home in Canada. eBay charge import tax on my Laptop over US$25. I just wonder is there any import or export tax in between US and Canada? according to NAFTA, there should not have any tax for trading between these two countries. Even if there is import tax, whatever ebay charged on my, I have right to have that document. But eBay didn't send me any invoice or document that proved that they pay import tax. eBay has no right to charge on customers for import tax while they really don't pay it. So I want either my money back or import tax invoice with printing my name and address.
It was unexpected from eBay.

If you were looking at the listing page on a laptop or desktop computer, there should have been little question marks on the listing page by the shipping method/charge, the import charges and estimated shipping time. Clicking on these question marks will give you a bit of information on the Global Shipping Program, which is what your laptop appears to be being shipped through.

The Global Shipping Program is a forwarding service that enables sellers to ship items to a location in Kentucky. From there, the item is forwarded to you through a network of contractors responsible to Pitney Bowes. It reduces the perceived risk US (and UK) sellers may face in shipping items out of the country.

Because Pitney Bowes is considered the "importer" of a Global Shipping Program item and because of the shipping methods used, it pays any taxes and duty owing on the item plus handling and clearance fees. The "import charges" are a payback of sorts to Pitney Bowes.

Generally speaking, taxes and duty for "casual imports" (such as the import of your laptop) are theoretically due on items with a declared value of over C$20. Items sent by mail, particularly small, modestly-valued ones, often don't get hit with a charge for taxes and duty even if their declared values are several times that amount. NAFTA does not make casual imports exempt from GST/HST/PST, etc. and it only makes a large chunk of items made in NAFTA countries exempt from duty. In your case, however, laptops are generally exempt from duty, so it should only be consumption taxes and processing/clearance fees that make up your "import charges".

i.am.vivian · ‎10-05-2016

This same thing comes up quite a bit. I just posted about it yesterday. Here is the link to explain what gives with Canada's import charges

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/courier/menu-eng.html

Copied directly from that page it says:

Value in Canadian dollars

Under the provisions of the Postal Imports Remission Order, if someone mails you an item worth CAN$20 or less, there is no duty or tax payable. If the item is worth more than CAN$20, you must pay the applicable duty, the GST or HST, and any PST on the item's full value.

About the only possible hope to not pay the charges is to avoid buying from a seller using the GSP. Even then sometimes you have to pay charges from Canada Post because of that $20 import fee thing from the link I just posted. It stinks but that's how it is.

habiblip · ‎10-06-2016

It doesn't make any sense. And you are not clear and specified. I just want to know know, did eBay pay import tax to the Canadian govt.? yes or No? if yes, I want document/invoice for import tax other wise I want my money back. and mentioned that I have paid separately shipping cost. so don't try to mixed it up with shipping charge.

strange*highways · ‎10-06-2016

This eBay page should answer your questions.

And NAFTA only applies to goods manufactured in the partner countries Canada , USA , Mexico it does not apply to goods manufactured elsewhere.

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/buy/shipping-globally.html

marnotom! · ‎10-06-2016

habiblip wrote

It doesn't make any sense. And you are not clear and specified. I just want to know know, did eBay pay import tax to the Canadian govt.? yes or No? if yes, I want document/invoice for import tax other wise I want my money back. and mentioned that I have paid separately shipping cost. so don't try to mixed it up with shipping charge.

No, eBay did not pay "import tax" to the Canadian government.

Pitney Bowes paid that. You paid Pitney Bowes back. That's why they're called "import charges" and not "import taxes". Technically speaking, you were not charged taxes. You were charged for reimbursement and service fees (in addition to the shipping charge).

I am not sure why you want your money back and on what grounds you feel this is justified.

Another page you should skim through besides the one that Strange*highways suggested is the terms and conditions page for the GSP. You agreed to these terms and conditions when you purchased your laptop.

http://pages.ebay.ca/shipping/globalshipping/buyer-tnc.html

habiblip · ‎10-06-2016

You are partially right. even 60% of manufacturing of any item would be considered as origin of home country. However, my point is if you pay import tax, then I have right to have that invoice/document, because I paid that amount on top of my Laptop price. And my seller told me he didn't received that money, eBay took this money. So I need invoice/document of import tax for my tax file.

This is very simple, either refund money or send me import tax payment invoice.

Thanks

marnotom! · ‎10-06-2016

@habiblip wrote:

However, my point is if you pay import tax, then I have right to have that invoice/document, because I paid that amount on top of my Laptop price. And my seller told me he didn't received that money, eBay took this money. So I need invoice/document of import tax for my tax file.

This is very simple, either refund money or send me import tax payment invoice.

You cannot get an invoice or refund for something you did not pay for.

Another party paid the taxes owing on your laptop. You are not on record with the government as having paid those taxes.

The "import charges" (not "import taxes") you were charged by Pitney Bowes are (or should be) what was paid by the other party in taxes on your behalf plus service fees.

i.am.vivian · ‎10-06-2016

The shipping company is Pitney-Bowes. Why not do a google search for "pitney bowes phone number" and call them about it? I am not saying they will give you what you want but it is certain that no one here can. We are all just eBay users same as you. If you do a google search you can find their customer service numbers, an Q&A board or other info. And if you find what you are looking for and they have helped you, please come back and tell all of us. We're on your side, its just that we can't give you what you are asking for.

habiblip · ‎10-06-2016

First of all I don't know who is Pitney Bowes? Is it seller? I asked my seller and he said he didnt get that money and didnt paid any tax.

eBay just naming different way import tax to import charge! what's the difference. The item I bought was US$299 and I paid in US$ excluding shipping charge and import tax. My question is if you didn't pay tax to Canadian govt. why did you charge on me?

you wrote "You were charged for reimbursement and service fees (in addition to the shipping charge)." I have never heard this type of charge applied on buyer! what did you reimburse? This is first time I have heard eBay has service charge on customers! Again, I am clear and straight, if you paid Import tax or charge then I want the invoice/document for that otherwise refund my money, please don't try to bypass the real fact. You can't charge me anything what you are not suppose to. This won't good example for eBay and may cause damage eBay's reputation. I will share this issue on the social media if ebay fail to resolve it.

Thank you

habiblip · ‎10-06-2016

Sorry, I was not sure who replied on my message, eBay users or eBay authority. Definitely my demand to the eBay authority, because I paid to them. To me its kind of scam. As a customer, all has right to get invoice/document what I paid from my pocket. even Pitney Bowes pays but that was my money and i have right to get proof that they paid import tax or charge. No matter its name is import tax or import charge, it suppose to goes to Canadian government. SO I need that document for my tax file.

Thank you

i.am.vivian · ‎10-06-2016

You do understand now that everyone talking to you and answering your messages is just another user same as you. No one from eBay or any authority ever comes here.

Pitney-Bowes is the shipper. They are like FedEx or CanPar. Here is the wiki page to tell you about them. Don't just ignore it, Have a look! 🙂

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitney_Bowes

Be aware that eBay did not charge you anything. It is not eBay because eBay is just the site that people from all over use to list their own items for sale.

I will try to keep this plain so please read it all:

Sellers enrolled in the Global Shipping Program do not collect or pay any other country's taxes. They don't even ship outside the US. They mail their sold item to Kentucky (a state in the US). There is a large warehouse there belonging to Pitney-Bowes (the company who runs the Global Shipping Program) and there someone checks and repacks all the parcels. They have to do that to make sure people are not mailing gasoline around the world.

The point is that after you buy from a seller using the GSP, the item is mailed to this warehouse but the seller has nothing more to do with it after that. The seller has completed a state-to-state sale as far as it goes. It is the GSP (the Pitney-Bowes company) who process all the paperwork for all the items to be forwarded on to the various countries in the world.

As for all the paperwork you want, eBay can not give it to you because eBay never had it in the first place. Any more questions about paperwork and all that needs to be directed to Pitney-Bowes.

If you google "Pitney-Bowes phone number" that will be a start.

I understand how unhappy you are but you will not get what you want by biting the heads off the other users here. There is nothing anyone here can do except to suggest to people not to buy from sellers using the GSP. Nobody likes it and eBay has loads and loads of sellers NOT using that program.

If you get any satisfaction at all, please come back and share it. We'd like to know, too. 🙂

afantiques · ‎10-07-2016

SO I need that document for my tax file.

Thank you

You really do not need such a document for anything. You'd not keep a record of your taxes paid on everyday personal expenditure because there would be no purpose in doing so. The GSP terms and conditions specifically say that it is not to be used for business purchases (where you might be able to reclaim some taxes paid) partly because they do not supply business type invoices. If a business user choses to buy an item with GSP they buy it as a personal purchase at a gross cost with no reclaimable tax element.

The terms and conditions for GSP buyers also state specifically that Pitney Bowes is the importer (importer of record) not you. Each package is just one line item on a comprehensive cargo manifest used for paying the taxes that may be no more specific than a package number and a value for tax. Just one package in a consignment that might be a ton or more of packages all cleared at once.

The terms and conditions to which a link was posted earlier will confirm what I and others say.

You will not get a refund, and you will not get an invoice. The GSP does not work that way and more importantly, by using it as a buyer you agreed that it does not work that way.

habiblip · ‎10-13-2016

I am sorry to say, your answer doesn't make sense to me. You contradict yourself with your statement regarding tax/charges on a used laptop. You also mixed up the definition of importer and exporter. I don't understand if someone/party ship or sell something how could they be an importer?

While I check the product listing I have seen those fees and charges and I was expecting invoice/document for import tax/charge. my clear and simple question, where's that invoice that I paid to eBay as import tax/charge? If they paid it certainly they must have some document and I want that, it simple and clear. This is nothing but a form of scam or way to get money from buyer with illegal force.

This is shame!

habiblip · ‎10-13-2016

I never agreed that I won't get invoice or document what I paid for. I just wonder GSP doing business under the table? if not, whats wrong with them not to provide invoice or any charges they have received from buyer? Remember one thing, regardless you agreed or not, any illegal document/agreement won't be considered as legal if its truly illegal (under the table).

habiblip · ‎10-13-2016

How do you know I didn't paid import tax/charge? I did and that's why I am asking for document. I can't allow anyone to take my hard working money without any document.

marnotom! · ‎10-13-2016

@habiblip wrote:

How do you know I didn't paid import tax/charge? I did and that's why I am asking for document. I can't allow anyone to take my hard working money without any document.

Your invoices do not show a charge for import tax. They show that you paid import charges. Pitney Bowes regards these differently.

Your import charges consist of the tax and processing fees that were paid on your behalf by Pitney Bowes so that your item could make it across the border instead of sitting in a warehouse somewhere.

Your import charges are your repayment of what Pitney Bowes paid. They are not the taxes themselves.

If a friend borrowed your car and paid with his credit card to get it filled with gas (petrol) and you gave your friend cash to pay them back, your friend would still be the one on record with the gas/petrol station and credit card issuer as having paid to get your car fueled up and having paid all the taxes due on that fill-up.

It's the same with the GSP. Pitney Bowes pays the tax and is on record with the government as having paid the tax. Pitney Bowes' charges to you are for what it paid in taxes and a bit extra.

i.am.vivian · ‎10-13-2016

@habiblip wrote:
I don't understand if someone/party ship or sell something how could they be an importer?

While I check the product listing I have seen those fees and charges and I was expecting invoice/document for import tax/charge. my clear and simple question, where's that invoice that I paid to eBay as import tax/charge?

I get the sense that you are not reading any of the messages that members here have posted to you. You should.

Ultimately YOU are the importer which is why you had to pay those charges. When you buy an GSP item the company that handles the transport of getting the item into Canada and on its way to you is Pitney-Bowes.

They are more of a "forwarding" company in that they "forward" the package on to you. Think of runners in a relay race. The first runner passes the baton (package) on to the next runner, who runs with it a bit and passes it off to the next runner, and so on until a final runner gets to the finish line (destination).

When Pitney-Bowes first receives the parcel from the seller who mailed it there, P-B becomes responsible for it. That means they will pass it to the next "runner" (Canada Post) but as this is a cross-border race, P-B must first make sure the item is safe (no parcels of gasoline) and process the paperwork to send whatever necessary duties and taxes to the Canadian government. Or the UK gov't, or Germany, or where ever the item is going. In this case, it is Canada.

No one does anything for free and neither does P-B. They charge about $5 for themselves, apart from any taxes/duties due.

My clear and simple question is:

How did it go when you called Pitney-Bowes on the telephone?

afantiques · ‎10-14-2016

I never agreed that I won't get invoice or document what I paid for.

I suspect that this is what we call in England a 'wind up thread' where the poster tries his best to keep it going as long as possible by simply ignoring, or appearing to ignore any answers. I think further interest is futile.