eBay

2756anderson · ‎05-23-2018

1. It adds delays to deliveries, sometimes 4-5 days on cross-border (U.S. to Canada) shipments. I assume there are some delays in the U.S. as well, compared to direct shipping.

2. On cross-border sales, the buyer ALWAYS pays taxes. Before, when an item was shipped by post, it was common not to be charged tax for items costing up to $100.00, depending on whether or not they had official invoices attached or if shipped by stores or private parties.

3. There is a FEE added in addition to shipping.

If you were an average buyer, who spend $100 in $20 increments, the total increased cost of global shipping over normal post to post shipments could be as much as $20.00 a 20% overall cost increase over shipping direct using the postal system.

4. The psychological effect of seeing the global shipping cost on the top of a listing is to dissuade some buyers from ever buying, even if they'd owe nearly the same amount using the old method.

femmefan1946 · ‎05-24-2018

Thank you for a calm exposition of the reasons why the GSP is detested by Canadian buyers.

So many posters think it is a scam and somehow illegal, while some of us try to be openminded about it.

Which is hard.

The charges are what all couriers are legally required to assess and collect. PB/GSP actually charges about half of the Canada Post service fee, when they collect import fees on the doorstep.

The now archived 5000 post scream of pain about UPS and FedEx spent a lot of time complaining about their service (customs brokerage) fees.

The GSP is not meant to do anything for buyers.

It is a Seller Protection program designed to reduce the paranoia of US sellers and more recently the xenophobia of UK sellers.

retroman_studios · ‎05-24-2018

As far as shipment speed, I've had some GSP shipments arrive super fast, other really slow.

The ones that were fast was when the seller used FedEx for Continental US Shipping, because they arrived (At GSP Hub) within a day or two of being shipped. If a seller uses USPS, it is spoke and wheel distribution, so that can add delays.

As far as duties and fees, yeah it's hit and miss. One thing I noticed is though, my home address is ALWAYS flagged for taxes and duties. I put this to the fact I have my home address for my Venture Card address, so as a SMB, I have to suck it up. 😉

femmefan1946 · ‎05-24-2018

FedEx was an early adopter of spoke and hub distribution. Remember the opening scenes of Castaway?

my home address for my Venture Card address

Doubtful.

I'm in the same situation, and the items I am charged for are bulky rather than pricey.

marnotom! · ‎05-24-2018

I don't like the lack of transparency with the GSP's "import charges" and I really don't like how it's been pushed on sellers as a one size fits all panacea for their largely irrational fears of direct international shipping.

Having said that, like any shipping method (actually, in the case of the GSP, it's more like a forwarding service), it can work reasonably well in some instances, and is absolute rubbish in others. Nobody with half a brain would buy a postcard shipped as an express parcel, for example.

I do have to say, though, that the GSP seems to catch a lot of flack for issues that aren't its own making. For example, the issue of shipping time is largely due to the sellers' choice of shipping method for the item to get it to the Global Shipping Center in Kentucky. Once the item is in Kentucky, it's usually there for a couple of days before ending up in Mississauga the next day for redirection to its final destination. The issue with taxes and processing fees is something you're going to find with practically any other commercial carrier. Items sent by mail are actually dealt with in a butt-backwards fashion when it comes to the assessment and payment of taxes and duty, compared to other methods of shipment.

Also keep in mind that a lot of sellers using (sometimes unknowingly) the GSP don't provide Pitney Bowes with enough information on the item's country of origin and/or packaged size and weight, so the GSP "bot" has to apply a shipping rate based on a category average that may be waaaaay off, depending on the category in which the item is listed.

The program definitely has its problems, but if you do your homework you can do quite well with it. I've purchased three cell phones that were forwarded through the program and saved quite a chunk of cash versus purchasing them from other sites or from sellers shipping them directly to Canada. Your mileage may vary depending on the category. I certainly haven't found anything else forwarded through the GSP that says "buy me".

reallynicestamps · ‎05-24-2018

A few times those "look how long it took" posts with the actual tracking from seller to Erlanger show many many 'stops' , but if you actually read them they are:

Seller ships 12 noon

Seller's town 3pm

Leaves seller's town 5pm

Arrives at terminus 6pm

Leaves terminus 7pm

Major hub 9pm

Leaves major hub 9am next day.

Next major hub noon

Leaves major hub 4pm

Erlanger KY 9am next day.

Delivered 3pm.

Eleven stops? But actual time elapsed 48 hours.

People don't read.

2756anderson · ‎05-25-2018

I'm not even sure if the TAXES collected under the program even end up with Canada Revenue or if they are just pocketed.

2756anderson · ‎05-25-2018

On more expensive items, Canada Post now levies a $10.00 "handling charge" on top of anything else you've paid to the seller in the U.S. So they are pulling even with the Global Shipping Program. Their handling was $5.00. So much for staying with inflation running at 2% per year!!

2756anderson · ‎05-25-2018

48 hours would be state to state continental U.S. Cross border shipping, the only way you will ever get 48 hours is:

-Small, inexpensive product customs doesn't look at.

-Post office to post office shipping, no GSP.

Lastly, something forgot; the GSP lengthens the shipping route, more fuel, more resources used. Probably doesn't go down well with the environmentalists.

marnotom! · ‎05-25-2018

@2756anderson wrote:

I'm not even sure if the TAXES collected under the program even end up with Canada Revenue or if they are just pocketed.

Technically speaking, Pitney Bowes (doing business as the Global Shipping Program) doesn't collect taxes and duties for GSP shipments. It pays them on the buyer's behalf, and the buyer repays them as part of the "import charges" slapped on the item.

But if you're going to go there, how do you know that the taxes collected by the convenience store down the street end up with Canada Revenue Services and they're not just pocketed?

marnotom! · ‎05-25-2018

@2756anderson wrote:

Lastly, something forgot; the GSP lengthens the shipping route, more fuel, more resources used. Probably doesn't go down well with the environmentalists.

I don't buy the arguments that the GSP is any worse for the environment than more direct shipping.

You're visualizing the shipping of a GSP item as being like the item going on a road trip by itself. It's more accurate to think of it as going on a trip by bus or train. It travels along established shipping routes along with dozens, hundreds of other items at the same time. GSP items travel to one processing centre to be dispersed to various locations from there. Most items destined to Canada end up going to Mississauga before being broken up and travelling in smaller "buses" to other shipping hubs, and eventually to their final destinations.

Mississauga is a major import hub for goods entering Canada. There really aren't any other cities in Canada with a comparable network of facilities. Other Global Shipping Centres in the US or receiving hubs in Canada would have to be constructed to get more "direct" GSP shipments to and within Canada. This would mean dispatching more trucks that may not be filled up the way a single truck destined for Mississauga would be. These shipping hubs also take up valuable land, and while it increases the number of jobs for workers, it increases the demands on roads, parking lots, etc. as those workers have to get to work somehow.

Another way of looking at this: If I fly from Vancouver to Calgary but have to fly out to Winnipeg first because the airline doesn't offer direct flights to Cowtown, I'm not using any more fuel for my journey because the planes are flying from Vancouver to Winnipeg and Winnipeg to Calgary anyway. It certainly takes longer, but I would be using more fuel if I were flying a single-engine plane solo. I'm flying with a whole mess of other people and the flights are scheduled to go to their destinations whether or not I use them.

Hope I'm making sense here.

ca_cunn · ‎05-26-2018

I am only a small niche buyer. However I have completely stopped even looking at US sellers items using the GSP. I won't pay for services that do absolutely nothing for me. I will buy from US sellers who offer their items outside the GSP. I recently experienced this... an item showed "calculate shipping" on my screen. I did so and was told shipping would be $12.30 US. Too my great surprise when I hit bid now the item was a shown as being shipped via GSP for more than twice that amount PLUS 'border crossing fees' payable to Pitney Bowes. Nuh Uh! If the USPS is able to deliver for a reasonable amount why can't GSP? I wonder if our neighbours to the south are really unaware of the reason their sales to Canada have slumped or if they simply do not care?

femmefan1946 · ‎05-26-2018

Because the USPS fee is for shipping ONLY.

Once in Canada, your purchase should* be assessed for applicable duty and Canadian sales taxes.

Then Canada Post completes the shipping**, collects the duty and taxes and charges you $9.95 for that service.

The GSP/PB fee covers applicable duty, applicable sales taxes, and a service fee of ~$5USD. This is charged on purchase, and before the seller sees your payment.

The two differences are:

The import fee is paid on purchase
Canada Post's service fee is nearly double that of GSP/PB

*There are reasons why it may or may not be assessed.

** Under the terms of the Universal Postal Union Treaty of 1874

marnotom! · ‎05-26-2018

@ca_cunn wrote:

I am only a small niche buyer. However I have completely stopped even looking at US sellers items using the GSP. I won't pay for services that do absolutely nothing for me.

eBay or Pitney Bowes would probably argue that what the GSP does for buyers is get items into their hot little hands that wouldn't be available to them otherwise. I'd say most sellers who have the GSP on their listings wouldn't be offering direct shipping to Canada if the GSP didn't exist, so that would mean that Canadian buyers who want these sellers' items would have to make arrangements with someone in the United States to hold their items for pickup at a later date or have them repackaged and sent up to them.

Having said that, given that the GSP is in place to make international shipping as simple, cosy and risk-free for sellers as possible, it is irksome that we have to foot the entire bill for all this comfort.

@ca_cunn wrote:

I recently experienced this... an item showed "calculate shipping" on my screen. I did so and was told shipping would be $12.30 US. Too my great surprise when I hit bid now the item was a shown as being shipped via GSP for more than twice that amount PLUS 'border crossing fees' payable to Pitney Bowes. Nuh Uh!

Sounds to me as though you were shopping on the .com site, where GSP information tends to be pretty buried, especially the "import charges". If you do your browsing and buying on the .ca site, the GSP is much more readily visible on listings.

In addition, if you set up your search results to appear in "list view" rather than "gallery view", you'll see the message "Customs services and international tracking provided" accompanying the listing summary. That's a sign that the item is being forwarded through the GSP. Don't click on it if you're dead-set against having the GSP used for getting your item to you.

@ca_cunn wrote:

If the USPS is able to deliver for a reasonable amount why can't GSP?

The shipping charge you see for a GSP listing is actually two shipping charges combined into one. (They get separated on your PayPal invoice.) The first charge is what the seller is charging to send the item to the Global Shipping Centre in Kentucky, the second charge is what Pitney Bowes (the GSP) charges for forwarding the item from Kentucky to you.

Sellers that offer "free" domestic shipping within the United States and who list their items properly so that the GSP "bot" can calculate the shipping based on the item's packaged size and weight (instead of "guessing" based on a category average) will sometimes have listings that have fairly decent GSP shipping charges. I've purchased three cell phones through the program and they all had shipping charges of less than US$15.

@ca_cunn wrote:

I wonder if our neighbours to the south are really unaware of the reason their sales to Canada have slumped or if they simply do not care?

I've started hanging out on the .com boards more regularly after taking a few years off, and while I see quite a few threads about sales being down for some .com sellers, none of them have been posting about Canada sales specifically or even international sales.

The fact is, sales to Canada and other international sales don't matter nearly as much to US sellers as they do to Canadian sellers. Their market is much bigger and non-US sales make up a much smaller proportion of their sales than non-Canadian sales do up here.

Also keep in mind that a lot of listings that have had the GSP applied to them are being offered by sellers who don't have a clue that they're using the program. They think they're offering shipping strictly within the United States and, as a result, can't "lose" sales they aren't expecting in the first place.

ca_cunn · ‎05-26-2018

GSP cross border charges are less than Canada Post fees? Only if you equate Canadian dollars and US dollars. While it may be a panacea to American paranoia GSP does nothing for Canadian buyers, hence I refuse to buy from sellers who have either enrolled themselves or have unknowingly been enrolled by Ebay. I will not pay Pitney Bowes and their shipping partner Ebay for services I do not get.

ca_cunn · ‎05-26-2018

One would have to assume that you have never been charged import duties etc. etc. by GSP on goods that are not subject to duties or that are under the price horizon where duty applies. I have. Never again!

ca_cunn · ‎05-26-2018

Fair enough, so you are saying they really don't want my business? Great! There are other venues and frankly of late in my niche most of the stuff is listing for more than I can buy it retail plus their absolutely crazy added on shipping fees. Virtually all the sellers are adding a very significant amount to the cost of shipping as a second revenue stream. Ebays own calculator confirms that. Maybe Ebay and their sellers need to get to terms that buyers usually realize how badly they are being treated by both. If they keep it up, they will ultimately fail, not to to market conditions but due to greed.

marnotom! · ‎05-27-2018

@ca_cunn wrote:

GSP cross border charges are less than Canada Post fees? Only if you equate Canadian dollars and US dollars. While it may be a panacea to American paranoia GSP does nothing for Canadian buyers, hence I refuse to buy from sellers who have either enrolled themselves or have unknowingly been enrolled by Ebay. I will not pay Pitney Bowes and their shipping partner Ebay for services I do not get.

Hmm. Could I see how you did your number crunching here? I'm going to go back to my records for the last mobile phone I purchased that was forwarded through the program. Hang on a moment.

Okay, the phone was US$164.99. There was no shipping charge for getting the item to Kentucky.

The GSP's shipping charge was US$12.20. My "import charges" were US$13.20.

There's no duty on mobile phones, and the GSP only pays the GST for items that end up being shipped to British Columbia, so that's what I pay them back as part of the "import charges".

5% GST on a US$164.99 purchase is US$8.25, so the amount received by Pitney Bowes for its share of the "import charges" is US$4.95. Take whatever exchange rate you want, but that's less than the C$9.95 Canada Post charges merely for collecting and remitting taxes and duty due. Pitney Bowes' "import charges" go beyond that and are explained on an eBay help page that I can't be bothered to find right now.

What services do you feel the GSP is charging you for that you're not receiving?

marnotom! · ‎05-27-2018

@ca_cunn wrote:

One would have to assume that you have never been charged import duties etc. etc. by GSP on goods that are not subject to duties or that are under the price horizon where duty applies. I have. Never again!

I've only purchased items forwarded through the GSP where I've done my homework and it seems to make sense to do so. Sorry to hear that you haven't.

Having said that, I do wonder if you've been misinformed on the nature of the charges that you're paying in the "import charges" on a GSP-forwarded item. Even if items aren't subject to duty, they're subject to taxes, and personal imports with a declared value of over C$20 are subject to charges for taxes and duty (if applicable). GSP items that sell for less than C$20 should have no import charges attached to them, with the processing fee (see my earlier post) added to the shipping charge instead.

marnotom! · ‎05-27-2018

@ca_cunn wrote:

Fair enough, so you are saying they really don't want my business? Great! There are other venues and frankly of late in my niche most of the stuff is listing for more than I can buy it retail plus their absolutely crazy added on shipping fees. Virtually all the sellers are adding a very significant amount to the cost of shipping as a second revenue stream. Ebays own calculator confirms that. Maybe Ebay and their sellers need to get to terms that buyers usually realize how badly they are being treated by both. If they keep it up, they will ultimately fail, not to to market conditions but due to greed.

Since you don't do any number crunching on or go into specifics of a particular transaction, it's impossible for me to respond to this meaningfully, but your previous posts suggest to me that you've been misinformed about a few things when it comes to personal imports (or what Canada Border Services terms "casual imports") shipped by mail, courier or similar means.

As I've noted earlier, there are many, many instances where it doesn't make sense to have an item forwarded through the GSP, but I think it's more due to how the program is structured and the fact that many sellers who have items forwarded through the program don't provide enough information for the GSP "bot" to calculate its fees for buyers accurately. I'm sure the program could charge considerably more than it did for the mobile phone that I bought and it would still be a better deal than buying it from a seller who chose to have it shipped by a carrier such as UPS.

In short, I don't think eBay or Pitney Bowes are trying to rip non-US buyers off with the GSP. However, I do think that eBay and Pitney Bowes need to educate sellers on the practices they need to follow in order to use the GSP optimally. From what I've seen on the .com site, sellers have no "terms and conditions" page to read or follow for the GSP the way buyers do. They have a FAQ page which seems to be masquerading as such, but it doesn't seem to be legally binding in any way, shape or form and it doesn't really educate sellers on how to prepare their listings optimally for the GSP.