eBay

38e_avenue · ‎11-12-2023

Case no. 1 - Recently, almost 90% of my sales goes through Promoted Listings. I listed an item for a particular customer, created a link and sent using Ebay message - the sale was made after about 90 seconds later. Now imagine - I was charged for a promoted Listing. How is it possible? Promoted where?

Case no. 2 - I sold an item on Nov 8. It's not marked as sold via Promoted Listing. Then, suddenly - 4 days later - I was charged 6 dollars more for promoting that item. Checked again - not sold via Promoted Listings at all.

Totally confused. What's going on here?

As a result, I downgraded PL to 2%.

ricarmic · ‎11-12-2023

Thoughts, possibilities:

Case 1: If you used sell similar to create the special item for the buyer, if the original item had promotedness, the sell similar will default to the same promoted group the original one was in, you have to manually turn it off when you use sell similar.

Case 2: was the item EVER promoted? I believe that we pay the promoted rate at the time the buyer FIRST clicked on the item within 30 days. So if it was promoted at one time, isn't now, but was when they looked at it I believe we still pay the original promoted rate within the 30 days window.

38e_avenue · ‎11-12-2023

@ricarmic wrote:
Thoughts, possibilities:

Case 1: If you used sell similar to create the special item for the buyer, if the original item had promotedness, the sell similar will default to the same promoted group the original one was in, you have to manually turn it off when you use sell similar.

Yes, I used "sell similar", but all my listings are promoted. I supposed they charge when a buyer clicks on a listing displayed anywhere as promoted? Not every promoted listing is sold as promoted, right?

An item must be in this section, promoted, getting more visibility, hence the PL charge?

Case 2: was the item EVER promoted? I believe that we pay the promoted rate at the time the buyer FIRST clicked on the item within 30 days. So if it was promoted at one time, isn't now, but was when they looked at it I believe we still pay the original promoted rate within the 30 days window.

Yes, it was. But in my sale section items sold as promoted are marked as such. This one is not marked at all (see the picture attached)

regs43 · ‎11-12-2023

ebays earnings are up in Q3 from promoted sales ad fees, so maybe they hope people don't notice?

I don't use promted, but my understanding of how it works is that you needed to search, find the item through a search and then purchase within a 30 day period. If someone sends a link you never searched for that item? and shouldnt be charged? so in Case 1 I would assume you shouldnt be charged.

ricarmic · ‎11-12-2023

Re Case 1: YES if ALL your items are promoted, then under the new rules, if someone purchases 1 promoted item from you, ALL the subsequent items they purchase from you will also incur the promoted fees in the next 30 days. I repeat all your items have to be promoted for this to be the case. Otherwise you'll only pay the promoted rate on items that are (aka were) promoted at that time.

I used to have all items promoted as well but because of that new rule, I do NOT promote the "new" items listed within the last few months because more often than not I'd be paying promoted fees on them because of people purchasing other promoted items.

Re Case 2: That looks to be a glitch, I've sometimes I think had "promotedness" show up after the fact. I've been watching the promoted amounts a fair bit lately as a result of some experiments on the go and if anything it looks like the promoted amount being charged is "behind" ie the amount that it is promoted now is higher than the rate I'm being charged. So far I'm assuming it means the person looked at it when the rate was lower before. I'll keep watching and see if anything weird comes up.

38e_avenue · ‎11-12-2023

@ricarmic wrote:
Re Case 1: YES if ALL your items are promoted, then under the new rules, if someone purchases 1 promoted item from you, ALL the subsequent items they purchase from you will also incur the promoted fees in the next 30 days.

WOW, if that's true, It's just SCARY 🙄 The item from the internal link I mentioned was added by the buyer to 2 other items, purchased as "promoted". Well, on of them was a "hot" item, not needing any promotion, but the second one was an old item, I listed just after the WWII (just kidding ... ).

Well, I think I need to be more careful with what I promote. Thank you for your advice!

mrdutch1001 · ‎11-12-2023

As I have said many times in these forums...PLs are a gimmick used by selling sites whereby sellers "believe" everything said about PLs ... brainwashed into thinking PLs "actually work" for the seller and are a "good thing"...PLs are a manipulation process carried out by the site for the benefit of the site to acquire additional fees from those sellers who fall for the gimmick. The site can manipulate those PLs anyway they see fit and sellers willingly follow like sheep to the slaughter... still feeling the "goodness" of the PL process as they believe the site is being honest and transparent...well good luck with that!

PLs are for the benefit of the selling site, NOT for the benefit of the seller...

Learned the real truth behind PLs many many years ago on another selling site...

However, as "My" thoughts on PLs are generally considered "conspiracy", I pay no nevermind to the nay sayers to my comment. Sellers will continue to use PLs anyway, no matter what, in the name of "it gets me more sales"...and sellers will continue to pay higher fees for a very unnecessary but so-called "beneficial tool" for all serious sellers.

ricarmic · ‎11-13-2023

Here's the important wording:

"You are only charged for Promoted Listings Standard when a buyer clicks on your promoted listing ad and purchases any of your promoted items within 30 days. (A click is when a buyer clicks-through to your item page from your ad, or clicks the Add to watchlist heart symbol on your ad.) This means you only pay when you sell."

It's kind of sneakily worded but there it is.

As a note, whilst I was looking this up I discovered the "what rate you pay" when the promoted rate is or has been changed is complicated, it is under one of the FAQs in the link below....

Here's the whole writeup:

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listings/listing-tips/promoted-listings?id=4164

38e_avenue · ‎11-13-2023

@ricarmic wrote:
Here's the important wording:
"You are only charged for Promoted Listings Standard when a buyer clicks on your promoted listing ad and purchases any of your promoted items within 30 days.

Yes, it probably explains why I was charged. I should remove the promotion before sending the link. I learned my lesson.

I do not believe PL are a gimmick. It really works. I sold items I had in my store since 15 years.

What I do not like is the fact PL promote sellers who agree to give higher % of their sale away. You are a TR Plus seller, you built your reputation through 20 years here, you cared about your customers, provided the best service, offered the best products - it doesn't count anymore.

Now a new, unexperienced seller, offering a bad service and **bleep** for sale will be better promoted, than you - because his/her promotion rate was set up at 30% or 50%.

I'm not sure how eBay thinks this will work for them on a long-term basis.

mrdutch1001 · ‎11-13-2023

"I do not believe PL are a gimmick. It really works. I sold items I had in my store since 15 years."

and the same can be said of sellers who DO NOT use PLs...

I may not have a store on eBay anymore(gave that up 15 years ago)but I have been listing many of the same items on eBay for the past 15 years...and some of those items have just sold in the past couple of years and I DO NOT use PLs...

Successful Selling is about the product, its uniqueness, quality,price points, target market etc,etc...and success in selling is also about the right buyer falling into that purchase at the right time(their time not yours>the buyer has chosen the time to make the purchase).

Trends come, trends go....it's the nature of existence that things are cyclical...what didn't sell 15 years ago, has found interest again by someone looking for that specific item...whether or not it was promoted...

It is what it is

C'est la vie!

Que sera, sera!

ricarmic · ‎11-14-2023

I guess its a symptom of being old, but promoted listings and the various visibility methods ebay has introduced over the decades is really just various forms of advertising options available to us conceptually no different than that available before the internet.

Being a seller on ebay give us each a "classified" ad to harken back to the olden days. The modern difference today is that the magazine has millions upon millions of classified ads. The magazine also has a lot better searching mechanism than the printed world of old. So folks who are looking for specific things are more likley to search them out directly so they will generally sell ok on their own via the simple classified ad, unless there are a bunch of people with the same classified ad, then something has to be done by the seller to make the classified ad stand out more.

I won't bother to try to analogize the various styles of print advertising differences, but the same concepts hold true here as well.

Different types of material can benefit from different types of visibility. The seller has to figure out what works best for the given material. The "magazine" is of course going to provide chargeable opportunities for the vendors to make themselves more visible because the magazine has its own costs and it stands to reason that the methods available to draw more attention to an item for sale will be increasingly expensive based on their potential ability to draw more views/sales of the material.

At least in my own mind, things aren't conceptually any different now than when I was a "kid" starting out. Experimentation is required to understand what to advertise, how to advertise, how much needs to be spent to advertise to acquire and maintain a good sales volume/customer base. Today's world is more complicated than the days of old, but it is also a lot faster.....a "classified ad" experiment in the olden days took weeks or months or longer to know if it was going to work. Now one can get a good idea in days, although the environment is fluid enough now that what works today might not work tomorrow!

I'm still of course a fan of standard promoted items (the other types don't seem to be appropriate or work much if at all for my stuff) however I've lost the "great bag of tricks" I had working up until a few months ago so significant experimentation is still under way!

38e_avenue · ‎11-18-2023

@ricarmic wrote:

Experimentation is required to understand what to advertise, how to advertise, how much needs to be spent to advertise to acquire and maintain a good sales volume/customer base.

I'm still of course a fan of standard promoted items (...) so significant experimentation is still under way!

Here is the result of my last experiment. The 2 last days I put 2.000 of my oldest and cheapest listings on PL at 12.9% (Ebay's suggested rate). It resulted in a record sales day since 2001 (15 sales made). According to some, PL is a gimmick and evil. Yes, maybe evil, but a NECESSARY evil. This "gimmick" apparenty works for me. Yes, I paid a lot in additional fees, but I increased all items prices accordingly 😃 before putting them at 12.9%.

Here is the graph, not altered, except of sales volume, which I removed. As you can see, occasionally I had days without a sale.

ricarmic · ‎11-18-2023

@38e_avenue I would be interested to know if you saw your "non promoted" sales increased too? Both totally unpromoted and not-elevated in your experiment?

In my own experience, I'm seeing MORE increase in NON-elevated promoted items than I am in the ones that I'm paying more for, so if I consider the "extra" advertising cost of the elevated items across the other stuff that sells as even more economical.

38e_avenue · ‎11-18-2023

@ricarmic wrote:
@38e_avenue I would be interested to know if you saw your "non promoted" sales increased too? Both totally unpromoted and not-elevated in your experiment?

In my own experience, I'm seeing MORE increase in NON-elevated promoted items than I am in the ones that I'm paying more for, so if I consider the "extra" advertising cost of the elevated items across the other stuff that sells as even more economical.

Yes, I should mention that. Most of the sold items were NOT the highly promoted ones. They counted for about 1/4 of all sold items that day.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎11-18-2023

@38e_avenue wrote:
@ricarmic wrote:
@38e_avenue I would be interested to know if you saw your "non promoted" sales increased too? Both totally unpromoted and not-elevated in your experiment?

In my own experience, I'm seeing MORE increase in NON-elevated promoted items than I am in the ones that I'm paying more for, so if I consider the "extra" advertising cost of the elevated items across the other stuff that sells as even more economical.
Yes, I should mention that. Most of the sold items were NOT the highly promoted ones. They counted for about 1/4 of all sold items that day.

@38e_avenue

Have you noticed when you were setting up promotions the performance meter can be a bit flakey? (Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.) How long ago did they change the selection options when choosing categories to random from alphabetical or is that how it has always been? It also appears the list of your personally created categories is not complete.

-Lotz

38e_avenue · ‎11-18-2023

@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:
Have you noticed when you were setting up promotions the performance meter can be a bit flakey? (Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.) How long ago did they change the selection options when choosing categories to random from alphabetical or is that how it has always been? It also appears the list of your personally created categories is not complete.

-Lotz

I noticed some discrepancies, but my main performance meter I am watching closely is "your total funds" 😃

I don't create categories - I don't think it would change/improve anything. The same about most of the recommended item specifics.

lotzofuniquegoodies · ‎11-18-2023

@38e_avenue wrote:
@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:
Have you noticed when you were setting up promotions the performance meter can be a bit flakey? (Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.) How long ago did they change the selection options when choosing categories to random from alphabetical or is that how it has always been? It also appears the list of your personally created categories is not complete.

-Lotz
I noticed some discrepancies, but my main performance meter I am watching closely is "your total funds" 😃
I don't create categories - I don't think it would change/improve anything. The same about most of the recommended item specifics.

@38e_avenue

Don't you have to have sales for anything to show up there? Hmmmm? When I have looked it's mostly depressing. 😑🙄🤔

Recently I have been doing a bit more testing with promoted. With limited success. I have been seeing a slight increase in traffic numbers. I guess that is something. Because I have a variety of items I find it helps sorting/creating promotions by store category. I've just noticed that some categories that should be there, are mia. It would be simpler/cleaner if they showed up alphabetically. That comes back to the fact that a number of headers are sortable and while others are not....for some eBay only known reason.

-Lotz

38e_avenue · ‎11-18-2023

@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:
🤔
Recently I have been doing a bit more testing with promoted. With limited success. I have been seeing a slight increase in traffic numbers. I guess that is something. Because I have a variety of items I find it helps sorting/creating promotions by store category. I've just noticed that some categories that should be there, are mia. It would be simpler/cleaner if they showed up alphabetically. That comes back to the fact that a number of headers are sortable and while others are not....for some eBay only known reason.

-Lotz

I didn't notice any very significant incerase in traffic - maybe 15% or so. Concerning the categories - you have variety of items for sale, so creating categories for you surely makes sense. I sell only 1 kind of stuff, like some other people here (like stamps, or sport cards, etc.) so it would not help a lot. Instead, you can try to increase the PL%. Yes, 13% hurts (it makes 20% with shipping and tax), but I am still happy seeing listings I had in my store since 5 or 10 years are finally gone.