Beginning of the end for me on Ebay tired of fraudulent "SNAD" cases

[barnfindparts]

Bit of a rant but I've just had enough this wildwest freeforall marketplace unscrupulous buyers use to their advantage.

I've lost track of the times ebay has sided with shady  zero feedback buyers forcing a return, making me cover the return shipping on top of it. Its as high as 5% of sales in my experience. All they literally have to do is click the "item not as described" button and voila buyers are on the hook for return shipping,  its literally that easy.

Mainly for this reason I've decided to explore other venues/business opportunities, although ebays abysmal broken english customer service, tampered returns, and UPS/Fedex brokerage fees on returns played a part as well.

I plan to stick around for however long it takes to get alternatives up and running but sadly me and ebay are not in it for the long run. Just not worth the headaches in my opinion. Good luck for those willing to stick it out hopefully ebay  can address this flaw in their business model as well do a better job addressing  canadian seller's specific needs.

[marnotom!]

Are all these cases you're seeing for items described as "for parts or not working"?

[reallynicestamps]

Best wishes on your future business.

Five percent is well above the industry average of one percent failed transactions.

What in your listings can you change to make those problems less?

Would it be possible to switch from using expensive private couriers to the postal system which in my experience is generally cheaper than UPS/Fedex? Cheap enough that those companies use the post office for their last mile delivery on rural and isolated shipping.

Would using Calculated Shipping which allows for weight, dimensions, and destination make more sense than Free Shipping  to Canada and the USA?

I'd also suggest ignoring the phone clerks since accents seem to annoy you, and use the social media Chat reps instead.

Because the communication is written, the rep (and you) have a chance to consider all the implications of the questions, and because you get a transcript of the Chat you can see where what your heard may not be what you were told.

[barnfindparts]

You can put "for parts or not working" in the ad or no returns even,  doesn't matter ebay's money back gaurentee will side with them everytime unless they are exceptionally incompetent.  All they have to do is damage it themselves if they change their mind then claim it arrived that way. Sometimes they will intentionally damage a piece they did not plan on using then use it to extort a partial refund.

I also get alot of "part doesn't work or defective" then they mail it back after they have swapped out some inner working part with their defective part. Some other commonly used reasons:

Ordered by mistake

Changed mind

Didn't like item

Wrong item sent

Doesn't fit

Arrived damaged

[barnfindparts]

5% was a guesstimate on total revenue the crooks tend to target higher priced items $400 and up. My return rate is currently 3.51 % been awhile since I checked but think its in line with the average. Return rates vary for different categories I imagine the stamp business would have a lower return rate then used car parts.

Tip: if you need a tracking number use Canada Post for small packages and Fedex for large ones.

Canada post subsidizes smaller orders by charging more for larger ones. Fedex is the opposite. I use both.

I've endlessly tweeked ads to minimize this. Its just a fact if you sell on ebay you will get burned from time to time and ebay will make you eat it. Just what you have to do if you want to play the game. I'm done playing lol.

[flipistics]

I think you're going to find the same issue in any marketplace where you're dealing with anything other than cash. While it certainly sucks, the items you're selling don't seem like items that are easy to find. IMO, raise your prices by 5% to compensate and try not to get too angry about it. Report the buyers who do this both to eBay and other appropriate places and move on. If you have a serial number, report it as stolen.

Maybe other people feel differently or have better advice, but I think this is how I would approach it.

[rocketscollectibles]

Why most sellers never ever take into consideration they maybe doing something causing the return rate? No way 5% of buyers are scammers and false claims. This number is was too high to reflect that. I took a quick look and most listings are used item with condition not described, and when a defect is decribed, it's small in description. It's known that most buyers shopping online do not read description, so that's an issue. Also you offer free returns, so obviously people will the service that you offer. Offering returns as policy will obviously boost returns. You're offering it. 

I'm selling is a very highly picky category with supposely high fraud, my return rate is 0.13%. 

[reallynicestamps]

Ordered by mistake

Changed mind

Didn't like item

These are all Buyer Remorse reasons, and I believe the Buyer is supposed to pay return shipping for those.

or no returns even, doesn't matter

No Returns does not mean No Refunds.

It just means the unhappy customer gets to keep the item unless the seller requests/demands the return, in which case the seller is likely to be required to pay for it.

I imagine the stamp business would have a lower return rate then used car parts.

Yes.

The stamp world is a handshake business, where reputation is everything. Also everything is catalogued and Condition and Grading are part of catalogue value. It helps.

And yes, most of my shipments are under one kilo.

There are other stamp dealers who ship bankers boxes of material. When we had a shop (now semi-retired) those Big Box o' Fun lots where a mainstay on a table near the door.

I mentioned Canada Post before looking at your product line.

[rocketscollectibles]

These are all Buyer Remorse reasons, and I believe the Buyer is supposed to pay return shipping for those.

He offer a free returns policy. 

Personally don't understand how we could complain about returns if choosing to offer a returns policy. 

[barnfindparts]

I offer free domestic returns not free international returns where over 90% of the business comes from. Change the shipping location on one of my ads if you don’t believe me.

You clearly know nothing about the used car part business as well you sell thin pieces of cardboard not exactly comparable.

[rocketscollectibles]

I see you offer returns even if i change location personally. But i don't need to sell car parts to know that offering returns will drive buyers to return items. 1+1=2 here. Trading cards is maybe not comparable but i can tell this is probably in the most picky buyers categories. People will complain for a single 1mm scratch if your condition isnt accurately tagged. A single scratch can drastically change the value. You need to be more accurate than most categories to avoid INAD returns. And it's known to be full of scammers. So i don't see the point. 

I'm curious to know the percentages of each reasons you have returns. 

But why most sellers on ebay typically think everything is buyers fault? You put all the blame on others and do not seems to take responsability for anything. There's false claims indeed, but at 5% there's issues somewhere other than that. 

[barnfindparts]

I see responding to you is a pointless endeavor so this will be the last time. Everyone on ebay is offering free returns whether they realize it or not. The one benefit to offering free returns and the point of it is, if its legitimately returned damaged/tampered with a seller can deduct up to 50% of the sale. I think you may also have to be a top rated seller?

I accept legimate returns all the time. For example I once sent a $400 US 1950's cadillac trim piece to a guy in Finland. I was off by a year in my listing so it didn't fit his car. He wanted to return it I did the right thing apologized, let him keep the part and refunded him.  Its the fraudulant ones we are talking about here.

Anyways I dislike your know it all tone reminds me of a quote "Never argue with a something something? They will drag you down and beat you with experience" Something to that effect anyways.  Good night sir.

[rocketscollectibles]

Its the fraudulant ones we are talking about here

Indeed. You're the one who said he had 5% returns and who actually posted at first like every return was fraudulent. All i said is that someone having as high as 5% returns, there's other things than fraudulent returns there. And you offer a return policy, so obviously it adds some from that. And now you say you accept legitimate returns all the time. You started with 5% then in a few comments we probably dropped at 1% of fraudulent returns? That's what i'm pointing.

[pjcdn2005]

I have to disagree that offering returns means that a seller will get more returns.  If they offer returns they will get a combination of buyer remorse returns and nad returns. On the former, the buyers will pay for shipping.

If a seller offers 'no returns' buyers who really want to return will simply file a nad so in most categories, it is better to offer returns.

I think that the auto parts business probably has more than its fair share of returns as people don't always realize which part they really need. I can't comment on the op's percentages but I do know that returns are a problem for quite a few auto part sellers.

[marnotom!]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

I think that the auto parts business probably has more than its fair share of returns as people don't always realize which part they really need. I can't comment on the op's percentages but I do know that returns are a problem for quite a few auto part sellers.

---

Someone put it quite well on the .com discussion boards a few weeks ago.  Not all mechanically-inclined people are created equal.  Some know how to massage a part to get it to work with the intended vehicle, some don't.  And who knows what's going on with a particular vehicle that might impede how a particular part works or behaves?  Many of those SNAD returns may be for parts that aren't "liked" by the vehicle for which they're intended.

[barnfindparts]

Exactly this, you're right on target but as a seller we get stuck paying shipping both ways plus full refund because the buyer opens a "Not as describe claim" Even though they ordered the wrong part for their particular vehicle. Happens all the time, dealing with one right now as a matter of fact going to lose over $100 in shipping due the size of it.

[rocketscollectibles]

I have to disagree that offering returns means that a seller will get more returns.  If they offer returns they will get a combination of buyer remorse returns and nad returns. On the former, the buyers will pay for shipping.

If a seller offers 'no returns' buyers who really want to return will simply file a nad so in most categories, it is better to offer returns.

As this will happen sometimes, not everyone will do that. This is assuming every single buyer is dishonest or know exactly how to exploit the system. It's clearly not the case. Someone who want to exploit the system will never select anything else than an option forcing seller to pay return shipping anyway. Offering returns increase returns it's just 1+1=2. Some people literally buy because returns are offered, and wouldn't if not.

[myk221]

Ebay money back garanty is scammers paradise. At list they should stop offering to us sellers no returns option, or explain that now its mean no item back and no money. Scambay customer service only exist to convince you to pay for shipping both ways.

[ilikehockeyjerseys]

Outside of selling through your own website and limiting the amount of payment methods you take, you will find a difficult time locating a popular selling platform that does not give the buyer the benefit of the doubt. The idea behind buyer friendly return policies is that most buyers enter into a transaction with good intentions. By assuring each buyer they will be covered, it raises the demand for your products on the platform. The extra business you accumulate should justify the costs of returns.

There has been many news stories lately about online platforms re-thinking return policies, because we might have reached a tipping point where a small amount of bad actors have ruined it for the great majority. Where it is no longer profitable to offer guarantees and free returns. That is an entire different discussion though.

What you have to consider is either you're selling in a category that has a high rate of returns. Or, you are doing something correctable to cause such a high rate of returns. 

Given the nature of auto-parts, it wouldn't surprise me if it is a high return category. Not only are parts expensive, which gives people more incentive to commit fraud. There is also an element of knowledge required to deal with auto-parts that your average buyer may not possess. I can imagine it is common for a buyer to order the wrong part or make a mistake when installing a part. If this is the case, you will still have this problem on a different platform. It just comes down to whether the payment methods you accept require you to provide the buyer with a return. For example, if you decide only to sell on a classified site where you only accept E-transfer, the buyer will be stuck in the event that the part is not as expected (whether it is their fault or yours).

What you need to consider is whether the added marketing benefit from a platform like eBay justifies the added time and cost of participating in the Buyer Protection Program. Most people continue to sell on eBay or other popular platforms, because even if they have to take a loss on an order here or there, the benefit from placing their items on a platform with a large audience outweighs the cost of the return program. If you have somewhere else you can sell where you will save money on returns and get a similar amount of traffic, you would be foolish not to sell there instead of eBay. Quite frankly, I can't really think of a platform that exists like that. Most have some level of liability with returns. Classified sites are the only one I can think of, and I do not think you would get the same amount of traffic on a local classified site as you would on a national platform with heavy marketing like eBay.

[reallynicestamps]

Suggestions so far are:

Your own website, with your own policies.

Expanding to several sites.

Accepting only etransfers.

Moving to no returns.

I'd like to add Cookie Jar Insurance.

This means adding a small amount, often nickels or dimes, to every purchase price and putting those virtual coins into a virtual Cookie Jar as a sort of premium for self-insurance.

When there is a problem, the seller pulls the money out of the Cookie Jar and settles before eBay gets involved.

Not only does this settle the usual problems, NAD return shipping, damage in transit, and INR, but also allows us to fix our own mistakes, poor descriptions or shippingerrors like shipping  a Fender guitar instead of a Cadillac fender. It can even be used to cover that scammer delight, the partial refund.

It does take a while to build up a Cookie Jar fund, and it works better for busy sellers than occasionals.

Sometimes we will cave to a scammer.

But because most people are honest, and because the usual rate for failed transactions is about one percent, some sellers have actually reported the Cookie Jar becomes a profit centre, with those buyer paid premiums building up faster than payouts.