Buyer from hell Partially returns an item Threatening with a negative feedback

[lawtekcomputer]

Really need help with this  (Item # 111348260423)

Buyer purchases my fully tested motherboard.

Buyer then claims that it has "GPU damage" - shows me a pic of the board working but he has wavy lines now showing.

I explain that the board did not do that when sent but he is all hot and wanting a refund.

I accept and tell him to send it back and will refund him in full.

When I receive the motherboard he has removed several key components such that I cant possibly even power the board up now.

The heatsink is missing, fan is missing, and an optical connector is missing.

I ask him to send these parts and he refuses saying that he has sent me everything already.

Now he is threatening with negative feedback unless I refund him right away.  He has also been really rude on every email.

I realize that he has probably caused this damage himself for some reason but now without the missing parts I have no way to tell if there is even any damage there.  I'm quite sure his "problem" was not related to the motherboard.  Anyhow its looking like I am now out a motherboard, shipping costs, and getting a negative.

I checked ebay policy and it does not look to me like a "feedback extortion".  Does anyone have any advice that might help here?

[maximus7001]

We had someone buy a motherboard and claim something similar. Turned out the motherboard we sent him was not the damaged one he sent back. We dug up the original bill of sale and the serial numbers did not match. We informed him that he was caught and we would report him to ebay for fraud. Never heard from him again.

[maximus7001]

After checking your listings. You say it was removed from a working computer. Do you still have the rest? Check to see if the numbers are matching. How good are your original photos? Can you see the numbers?

My guess is that he is trying to not pay and the working motherboard you sent is still with him and working correctly.

[lawtekcomputer]

He did send me the original motherboard.  I have checked pictures and serial numbers so I am sure of that.  He claimed that it had "gpu damage" which it did not because I checked it out and it worked fine.

My suspicion is that he found that the motherboard did not cure the problem he was having and so he removed the heatsink and ran the board which would damage it and cause these problems.

However - he claims that he sent me everything back but the heatsink, fan, and other parts are missing.  So I cant power it up to see what problems it has now.  Also I cant use it the way it is so the board is garbage.

Isnt this fraud to return something after keeping several parts and claiming that they sent everything back?

[mr.elmwood]

Interesting that buyer wants a refund but has not opened a case. Is that correct? To open a case, they would need to return the parts with tracking. Well, they can't do that now, can they?

What amount of money are we talking about?

Forget the fraud aspect, that is a non-starter. You are going to their jurisdiction to start a small claims case?

I had something like this happen a 2 1/2 years ago. Buyer messed up and just started screaming at me in emails. I was threatened with arrest. I was going to jail. It was bait and switch, misrepresenting, estoppel something or other. he was going to contact eBay legal dept, have your lawyer contact mine. He wanted the part cost, labour cost, damages.

This was for $40. He never opened a case and I just ignored him and let him run out of gas.

[mr.elmwood]

A year later, a buyer bought a cup holder for their Buick. There are two different ones. One in the centre console for cars with bucket seat. The other fits in the arm rest for cars with a bench seat.

She writes just insulting me and telling me how stupid I am that I do not know parts and sent something that her mechanic could not put in.

Now, a cup holder snaps into place. Takes longer to open the package. Took me months before I figured out she bought the latter and tried to make it fit in the former. She would not tell me that. She would send screaming emails telling me I am stupid.

No matter "return for refund". I then say to send it the cheapest was as I cannot accept courier shipments. She sends it courier, duty, fees, brokerage. I am not paying them $40 and then giving her $40. Parcel goes back to her. I never heard anything.

Honest people I will give anything to. The other tiny minority get nothing. In twelve years I have only had 3-4 terminally stupid ones.

[lawtekcomputer]

The buyer did open a case and returned the motherboard to me with tracking.  Of course since they stripped and kept several parts I am trying to get them to send the missing parts.  They say they have sent everything already.  I took a pic showing the partial return and emailed it to them but they are simply not replying.  They have already told me that they will escalate to a claim (and leave negative FB) if I dont give them a full refund immediately.

I'm guessing that ebay will just side with the buyer since they did send me *something* back?  Leaving me with an unusable part due to the missing pieces, negative FB, low seller ratings, and I'm also out the shipping?

[bobbybeeme]

I have a question for you lawtek:

Did the buyer ever email to say that the item arrived damaged and that he/she wanted to return it?

If so, did you offer to pay return shipping for the damaged item?

If not, are the missing parts about equal to the cost of return shipping?

[lawtekcomputer]

The buyer never mentioned any damage - they claimed that a chip was causing wavy lines to show on the screen and sent a pic to show that.  That can be GPU damage but the board was not like that when I shipped it.  The missing parts probably would equal the cost of return shipping.  It sounds like he caused this damage so that he could return the part as likely he realized he did not need it.

This auction clearly stated "buyer pays return shipping".  Now that I have it back I'm not about to go buying parts for it since it sounds like he broke it on purpose.

[bobbybeeme]

The buyer claimed that the board was causing wavy lines and I'm assuming that's not a good thing.

That's the same as damage.

If the buyer claimed that the board didn't work and even sent you a photo, then you have no choice but to believe it.

No point in debating,.

If you bought something for $50 and it didn't work wouldn't you be annoyed at being forced to pay for return shipping with tracking?

Conversely, if you bought something and it worked just at it should would you go to all the trouble of returning it?

If the cost of return shipping was equal to the missing parts then it's not hard to put two and two together.

[bobbybeeme]

BTW:  The buyer really should open a case.  

 I'm not sure why you seem to believe that would be better for you and worse for the buyer?

As a buyer I've tried to contact sellers about problems directly without opening cases believing they're prefer that,  but that has never worked out well.

In fact, when I do so sellers are suspicious, much as you are now.

Much better to go the formal route.

[lawtekcomputer]

The buyer has an open case for this.

ebay requested that he return the motherboard.

He returned it but kept several parts for himself.  Key parts that ensure that I cant verify if the board works or not since I cant power it up.

It looks like he will win his case since he returned *something*.

This would be similar to a situation where I won a laptop from a seller - claimed "not as described" - opened a case - stripped the laptop of most parts and just returned a shell of a laptop.  It would seem that I can do that and ebay will side with me in that situation?  This just does not seem right to me but apparently its acceptable?

[bobbybeeme]

Returns are difficult for buyer and seller alike because returns have to be with tracking.

[lawtekcomputer]

Every return is now trackable unless the buyer delivers personally.  I use expedited shipping which has always had tracking built-in but nowadays even parcel post comes with a tracking number.

[pjcdn2005]

BTW:  The buyer really should open a case.  

 I'm not sure why you seem to believe that would be better for you and worse for the buyer?

The buyer had already opened a case but if they hadn't,  I don't agree that a buyer should automatically open a case.  Quite often things can be worked out between a seller and buyer without a case being opened.Now that an open case automatically gives the seller a defect I think that most sellers would prefer to solve the problem on their own.

I do know that some sellers are always wary when a buyer complains about something, especially if the buyer requests a partial refund and refuses to return the item but I still think that in most cases, the buyer should contact the seller before opening a case.

In fact, when I do so sellers are suspicious, much as you are now.

The seller is suspicious? They didn't receive the full item back....that sounds like a fact, not a suspicion.

[bobbybeeme]

lawtek:  From Canada, returns are difficult for buyers because they have to pay for upgraded shipping with tracking.  Small or light packets won't cut it.

PJ:   IMO buyers should open cases when there is a problem rather than contact sellers by other methods.

For example: Last week I had a problem with an item and I emailed the seller using the paypal address and he was so upset by it.

I was trying to be kind, but It caused a lot of problems as the seller thought I was trying to pull a fast one and that's typical.

In addition, if you don't open a case many simply ignore you.

They don't seem to understand what's happening when you do that.

[pjcdn2005]

PJ:   IMO buyers should open cases when there is a problem rather than contact sellers by other methods.

That's up to you but I can guarantee that many sellers are going to be more cooperative if you contact them first because the minute you open a case they are penalized by ebay. But...do not contact them through regular email as that does look as if you are trying to hide something from ebay.  You can contact the seller without opening a case through ebay messages by clicking the on subject "Other" rather than on item not received. I can understand why a seller would be wary of someone who seems to be avoiding the ebay message system.

If you contact the seller and won't help you, then you can open a case.  I don't know what sellers you are buying from since you have chosen to use a posting id but the sellers that I have dealt with are usually easy to work with.

Think about it...if you were a seller and something got damaged in shipping through no fault of your own, would you rather have the buyer open a case so that you get an automatic defect from ebay or would you rather have the buyer contact you through ebay messages so that you can deal with the problem?
 

[bobbybeeme]

For sure, contacting sellers via regular email back-fires every time.

They never appreciate the effort........

But when you say that you:  """ can guarantee that many sellers are going to be more cooperative if you contact them first because the minute you open a case they are penalized by ebay.""""............

That is equally untrue................. except that you watered it down a little by saying "many" sellers.  (What's many?)

Most of the time they don't appreciate that effort either.

When they ignore you things only go from bad to worse.

[pjcdn2005]

Well, you know best.

Good luck.

[pierrelebel]

PJ - Please allow me to disagree with you in this specific instance.

As they say on TV crime shows, there is no evidence to back up the statement!