Buyers Don't Pay Attention to Shipping Description

[blixamix]

ItAnyone else have this issue?

I'm a seller based in Ontario. Shipping within Ontario costs the least for me, and BC/Alberta and the East Coast cost the most. This seems fair: location dictates cost. Ebay doesn't allow me to provide different costs for different provinces in the Shipping box. Why, I don't know, it assumes the entire country is a flat rate?

I don't use the shipping calculator because I lose way too much money from it as it does not account for handling, traveling, and the 10% fee that eBay takes. So I put the Ontario cost, the minimum, in the Shipping box and then I have a Shipping Description within my listing stating EXACT costs to other provinces. Not a single customer outside of Ontario ever pays the cost stated in the listing. EVERY TIME. They always automatically pay the minimum shipping amount and I always have to resend the difference which costs me money because of Paypal's fees.

So, I tried inputting the maximum shipping amount (BC/Alberta rates) and stated in the listing for people outside those provinces to wait for an invoice so I could apply proper discounts, but I got very little activity when I did this. I guess people in Ontario see $20 for shipping for a silk shirt and don't even bother looking at the item. 

This is incredibly frustrating. People don't read descriptions and want to pay as little as possible for the impossible. I'm stuck always requesting small paltry amounts from people from BC and Alberta and waiting on them for days to pay. They pay for the item and the $12 shipping immediately but when I send the extra $6 invoice: crickets. It might not seem like a lot to lose but I've covered differences in the past and it really does hurt me in the long run. 

Does anybody else have this problem?

[ypdc_dennis]

Simple solution:

(1) List on ebay.ca

(2) Use calculated shipping

(3) Buy Canada Post Expedited Parcel shipping through paypal.

The discount you get through paypal will more than cover the FVF on shipping.

-..-

[femmefan1946]

Ebay doesn't allow me to provide different costs for different provinces in the Shipping box.

Yes, it does.

It's called Calculated Shipping.

I don't use the shipping calculator because I lose way too much money from it as it does not account for handling, traveling, and the 10% fee that eBay takes.

Then you are doing it wrong.

You can add a 'handling' (mostly packaging) charge. Most sellers don't because customers don't like paying shipping nevermind something as nebulous as  handling.

You can also put an allowance into your asking price for the costs of packaging, eBay and Paypal fees, and gas. This is added to your procurement costs, labour costs for describing and uploading, printer costs, and selling fees.

More to the point, as dennis noted, using PP shipping labels gives you an 8% to 18% off PO counter prices for most parcel services.

I'm stuck always requesting small paltry amounts from people from BC and Alberta and waiting on them for days to pay. They pay for the item and the $12 shipping immediately but when I send the extra $6 invoice: crickets.

Because you are NOT ALLOWED to charge more for shipping than your advertised cost.

Don't do this ever ever again.

EBay will kick you right off the site for this, if one of your customers reports you.

Does anybody else have this problem?

Nope.

We use Calculated Shipping (or Flat Rate shipping or Free Shipping** which folds the average shipping cost into the asking price).

Our buyers know what their payment should be, pay promptly, get their items fast, and leave positive feedback.

**Many of your items (scarves, summer tops, etc) would ship easily in a poly envelope and be under 2cm thick and 500 grams. Even adding a bit of colour tissue paper and a pretty sticker.

If you did this, you could also use Free Shipping.

Which is cheapest ?

An $8.50 scarf with $12.50 tracked parcel shipping?

An $8.50 scarf with $1.20 untracked letter rate shipping?

A $9.99 scarf with Free Shipping?

You may also find that including the cost of shipping in the asking price for your items will in some circumstances mean you are paying lower fees on your shipping costs.

[blixamix]

Hey, I appreciate all the feedback. I will take all suggestions into consideration and will alter my shipping methods. I posted this for help because I believe in asking questions and being a better seller. I make mistakes. I'm not a large seller (I have less than 200 feedback). I'm human.

To femmefan1946, you're incredibly rude and you attacked me for unwarranted reasons. I did not post what I said to brag about how amazing my shipping methods were. I tried to present my problem as a problem because I was acknowledging my own shortcomings and wondering if other people shared it. You don't have to treat people like they're idiots, it makes them defensive (which I am right now because your response, although informative, was belittling, accusatory, and incredibly presumptuous). 

I always ship in poly mailers with tissue paper. I only use the exact weight in grams as I have a scale. I never make money on shipping EVER. I always lose. Clearly, you have explained to me why this is happening as I did not know that you could bundle fees and handling into the shipping cost. I always use Paypal and I understand they offer a discount but it still didn't account for the 10% eBay fee.

I do not ship lettermail at under 2cm because there is no tracking and I have had several packages lost in the mail before and had to offer full refunds on items I never saw returned. This is why I always ship with tracking. 

$9.99 scarf with free shipping? Shipping within Ontario costs me $10.44-$10.93 with the Paypal discount, depending on weight. If I were to offer your suggested amount, I see negative income. I tried the free shipping option by increasing my item costs by $5-8 and I received 0 sales for that month so I switched back.

Within Ontario, I charge $12.50 (this is only very recently, before that, I charged $12). Ebay takes 10%. So that leaves me with $10.80. Honestly, I don't even charge for the packaging and the gas, I work that into the cost of the item itself. 

I work hard at what I do. I always satisfy my customers, I am always fair, I've never had a single complaint and when a buyer disagrees with me, I go over hell and high water to accommodate them. Your email treats me like a scumbag, which I really didn't appreciate it, but thanks for taking the time out of your day to respond. And thanks for making me feel incredibly stupid as well.

[momcqueen]

I think you have taken the comment out of context. Femmefan is one of the greatest resources to be found on the ebay Discussion Board. You not liking what she had to say is a separate matter. 

[blixamix]

I never said I didn't like what she had to say. I absolutely appreciate her advice. When you go to a superior to ask for help, "You are wrong" is not the desired answer a person in a vulnerable position with less experience expects to hear.

I also understand she's a good resource, which is why I'm taking her advice. I simply wanted to explain my case.

Apologies to those who think I've responded unfairly. It's intimidating going to a forum to ask for help. I wanted input, I received it, I will heed it. Thank you.

[momcqueen]

When I read your original post, I do not see a request for assistance. I see a rant about buyers being stupid.

How would you expect someone to reply to that?

[momcqueen]

That you don't know how to use the shipping tool is clear but it's not the fault of your buyer. They trust a seller to set up their own listing so it can be bought, period. And you CANNOT by eBay policy invoice them for extra costs afterwards. That is prohibited by eBay, and turns off buyers so badly they don't come back for any of us.

[blixamix]

That's a fair observation. I should've been less ranty myself.

[momcqueen]

Finally, nowhere in femmefan's reply did she say anything to you like 'you are incredibly (anything)' yet you went straight there, making it personal.

I am affronted. That's not how the Discussion Board works. We are polite.

[blixamix]

I think because a long time ago (like in 2012) I used the calculated shipping tool when I was new to eBay, it did not work in my favor, I took several years off selling and when I returned a few years ago, I thought flat rate would be most beneficial for me. I was unaware of these policies and I feel really bad about it right now.

[blixamix]

You're right, I did. I'm apologizing for my transgression now. It was ego and misplaced blame. I hope to be apart of this community in the future.

My apologies to femmefan as well.

[momcqueen]

You are welcome here, it really is a community, and I promise you that we only wish you well. Any of us are happy to help.

[blixamix]

Thanks. Again, I apologize. I can admit my faults and I should've put some more thought into both my shipping issues and my posts.

[blixamix]

To femmefan: I admit I was rash and unnecessarily offended and didn't need to respond the way I did. You were only trying to help. I appreciate it a lot.

[jt-libra]

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@supascoopa4 wrote:
I think because a long time ago (like in 2012) I used the calculated shipping tool when I was new to eBay, it did not work in my favor, I took several years off selling and when I returned a few years ago, I thought flat rate would be most beneficial for me. I was unaware of these policies and I feel really bad about it right now.

---

I have always used flat rate shipping in Canada.  And I use lettermail whenever possible with free shipping for most items.  A lightweight item (mascara) or one of your lightweight scarves can be shipped in a poly envelope or, in my case, a bubble envelope for $1.80 plus tax, sometimes $2.95.  The same applies to my DVD's/CD's.  The price is the same whether you ship to Nunavut or the province next door.  I don't charge for my packaging or my time, gas, etc.  I sell in very competitive categories so a couple of dollars extra would take me out of the competition, given that U.S. sellers can purchase and ship the same items more cheaply.   Out of the hundreds of lettermail items I've shipped over the last ten years, there may have been 6 to 8 lost or unreceived items.  The money saved by not using expedited mail more than makes up for the few refunds I send.  With respect to the U.S., I ship lightweight items by Light Packet U.S.A. for $5.70.  A few of those go missing as well and I always refund promptly.

There is more variance in flat rate shipping for parcels.  I'm probably better positioned than you because I live in Manitoba.  I pay about the same for shipping to Ontario and Quebec, a little more to  B.C. and the Atlantic provinces, but less to Saskatchewan.  Expedited parcel is discounted through PayPal and with tracking numbers, there are very, very few stray parcels.  I pay the same parcel rate for all U.S. states (Small Packet Air) and only ship by Tracked Packet for items $50.00 or over.  I know most people prefer calculated shipping but I stick with what's most comfortable for me.

I wish you well because I know how frustrating selling on eBay can be, especially when you run into problems with dissatisfied customers.  Even though you haven't had a lot of sales, the buyers who have taken the time to leave feedback have made very positive remarks.

You should not be intimidated by coming to this Board.  Long-time sellers still seek information from other community members.  And as others have remarked, femmefan is an invaluable resource and is quick to offer her assistance.  Her manner should not be construed as being rude .... simply matter-of-fact which is what we need when we have a problem.  You'll come to see that the more you visit this Board.  (She's also very funny!)

Good luck!

[blixamix]

To jt-libra. Thanks for the advice and the welcome. I was worried I'd turned everyone off!

The thing is, most of my customer base is in California. They make up about 60% of my customers. The rest is 20% US other, 15% Canada, and 5% elsewhere. So for several years, I didn't get any buyers from Canada (other than Ontario) at all and never had to deal with shipping to a farther province. And I was shipping Light Packet to USA, charging flat $6-$8 for shipping depending on weight. I deal predominantly in clothing (weight being around 120 grams to 500 grams for heavier dresses and wool sweaters). For the first several years of doing this, I probably sold an average of 6 items per month. Then in a single day, I had THREE return requests for items that never showed up. I had to refund all 3 items including shipping. I lost over $100, and at that time, I was only making $150/month, if even, so it was a huge loss. That's when I switched to tracking only. For someone who only sold 6 items per month, even 1 lost item was not worth it for me.

Now, I'm selling much more than I used to (September has been CRAZY. My quantity of sales and profits have increased tenfold), even with my increased shipping costs. I'm firm about my shipping with tracking rule and the customers who come to me for my items don't mind so I don't mind either. Since my 3-refund-fiasco, I've noticed that my California buyers expect tracking (much cheaper with USPS) and are often buying designer items from me so they prefer the assurance that the items will arrive. 

It was only this summer that I started getting an influx of Canadian buyers and I guess I just didn't know how to deal with the varied shipping costs from province to province. But you bring up a good point in that packages within Canada rarely lose parcels. And it was only my US packages that were lost. So I should consider offering the Lettermail option for Canadian buyers. I have a question, so if the item is lost, do you unequivocally refund the buyer? What if the item is worth a lot, do you still ship Lettermail?

Thanks for all your help!

[jt-libra]

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@supascoopa4 wrote:

To jt-libra. Thanks for the advice and the welcome. I was worried I'd turned everyone off!

The thing is, most of my customer base is in California. They make up about 60% of my customers. The rest is 20% US other, 15% Canada, and 5% elsewhere. So for several years, I didn't get any buyers from Canada (other than Ontario) at all and never had to deal with shipping to a farther province. And I was shipping Light Packet to USA, charging flat $6-$8 for shipping depending on weight. I deal predominantly in clothing (weight being around 120 grams to 500 grams for heavier dresses and wool sweaters). For the first several years of doing this, I probably sold an average of 6 items per month. Then in a single day, I had THREE return requests for items that never showed up. I had to refund all 3 items including shipping. I lost over $100, and at that time, I was only making $150/month, if even, so it was a huge loss. That's when I switched to tracking only. For someone who only sold 6 items per month, even 1 lost item was not worth it for me.

Now, I'm selling much more than I used to (September has been CRAZY. My quantity of sales and profits have increased tenfold), even with my increased shipping costs. I'm firm about my shipping with tracking rule and the customers who come to me for my items don't mind so I don't mind either. Since my 3-refund-fiasco, I've noticed that my California buyers expect tracking (much cheaper with USPS) and are often buying designer items from me so they prefer the assurance that the items will arrive. 

It was only this summer that I started getting an influx of Canadian buyers and I guess I just didn't know how to deal with the varied shipping costs from province to province. But you bring up a good point in that packages within Canada rarely lose parcels. And it was only my US packages that were lost. So I should consider offering the Lettermail option for Canadian buyers. I have a question, so if the item is lost, do you unequivocally refund the buyer? What if the item is worth a lot, do you still ship Lettermail?

Thanks for all your help!

---

Wow, three refunds in one day.  That would turn off even the most die-hard eBay seller.

As long as your sales are good and your buyers don't mind paying for tracking, then there's no issue with your U.S. sales.

Lettermail within Canada, shipped from Winnipeg, usually takes no longer than 5 to 6 business days (3 to 4 to Alberta and Saskatchewan) and 10 business days to Newfoundland.  I always send an e-mail to the buyer telling them when I'm putting it in the mail and when they can expect it.  If it hasn't arrived in, say, 8 business days and they question me, I'll politely explain that occasionally delays are experienced and would they kindly wait another 2 business days.  After 10 business days, I refund them.  I always tell them that if it arrives and they no longer want it, to write return on it and drop it in a mailbox.  If they still want it, they should let me know and I will invoice them and charge them a reduced price for the inconvenience.  Rarely has an item been returned to me, and no one has ever said "I got it ... I'd like to pay for it."  But, again, lost lettermail items are extremely rare.

I've never had an expedited parcel lost, but there have been delays in receipt by the buyer.  I direct the buyer to the Canada Post website so they can see that it is on its way.  Again, this doesn't happen often but, when it does, I let Canada Post know so that I can get my shipping cost refunded.

And, yes, if I sell an item ... say $40+ which could easily be sent by lettermail, I will usually opt to send it by expedited mail.

[momcqueen]

You will find us a caring and forgiving group.

I came to the Community a few years ago with a problem: another INR on my small packets airmail and even though I was new to selling, I could tell these were too numerous to be legit. It was shortly after Cansda Post washed their hands of liability for lost, untraced airmail.

Needless to say, I was hot under the collar.

Femmefan's reply was probably the first.

I'm sure it was good advice, and I'm sure it was 100 per cent valid but nothing at that point would have made me happy.

My point is that I know, as does virtually every seller here, where you are coming from. We get it.

Don't be afraid to speak your mind or bring your problems forth. We don't always agree but it gets a good discussion going and there's always value in it.

[blixamix]

It almost did. I was just kinda of getting back into it and I remember being quite sad and discouraged, like maybe I wasn't cut out for eBay but I pushed on.

Yes, US has always been fine for me. Minus some difficult ones here or there who demand a package in 3 business days but won't pay more for shipping. But they're the outliers. I love my California buyers. It's just Canada was such a slam for me this summer. I was so unexperienced and unaware. Sometimes I've shipped light things in small packages to Alberta that cost more than a pair of jeans that weight 4x the amount going there. BC also fluctuates for me too. 

And thanks for the advice. I will definitely start offering Lettermail as an option.