Canadian SIN number now being demanded by managed payments team? is this no longer optional?

[coldwintersport]

Hi, 

Hopefully I can get some help / traction here.

I was forced to sign up on the first of Jan 1 2021 to the MP program, via a very threatening time sensitive email.  It did not disclose any additional personal information being required of me, so extremely misleading.  I would not have signed up, and closed my 17 year account if it was disclosed.  

I had a single small sale go through fine shortly after.  My second much larger sale was held, and "additional account information" was required.  I didn't thing much of it, and shipped off the item to be on time, trusting this to be resolved via a click on a form immediately.  Nope!

I provided all the extra information, and even gave photo id.  I was not about to provide my "optional" Canadian SIN.  I received an auto generated email four days later "not accepted".  I went back in and reviewed all my information, and it was all accurate.  Once again it was asking for additional photo id, so I uploaded the same ones again.  Four days later "not accepted".  Now I attempted to get some support.  Turns out there is only a chat function, and your gave to go through a lower tier agent, before even reaching a MP agent.  the wait time no matter what is listed is 45 min to one hour (my last chat session was over two hours long).  

So on my third chat attempt, I get the nuances.  You get a lower tier agent right away, so ask for MP team, don't even bother answering any questions.  You now wait the prescribed 45min to 1 hour.  Now when you do get the MP agent, get a case number right away, as you will get dropped, and re-shuffled to the lower agent at random.  The case number will help you re-connect, and save explaining your life again, and again, and again.  Now hopefully they can help.  

Supposedly my bottleneck was my missing middle name.    Entered, resolved, confirmed account was 100%.  Next day 'account held, need more information".

Repeat above process.

Now it was my birthday not being in the system correctly.  Somewhere in the previous registration, my DOB was polled and entered incorrectly.  This editable field no longer exists, and/or is linked to the new DOB field request.  So I enter my correct DOB, just as it appears on my provided ID.  Confirmed 100%, no problems, good to go.  Four days later, "account held, information does not match".

Repeat above process.

This chat session is my two hour run.  It goes low level agent, MP agent, dropped back to low level agent, then back to MP agent (a different one). this ate up the first hour.  Awesome.  So, I can not edit any of my information, and save it, as no fields get changed, as all my information is accurate.  Painful right?  The agent says he has a different DOB on file.  I ask where is the field for me to edit this?  the link takes me back to the form that I can not effect a change or save on.  Faulty database logic loop / bad code.  The agent has to manually edit / override the DOB.  So now one again everything is fingers crossed!

four days later......."information does not match"

the agent was really nice, and then another agent attempted to call me today, then followed up with an email.

Once again really nice.  

But, clearly in the e-mail it was written "We are unable to accept the document you provided because you have not provided your Social Insurance Number (SIN)."  

bizare, since the SIN field on the information form has the "optional" clearly beside it.

I sent out three orders so far this month, and only got paid for the first one.  I attempted to cancel the most recent as it is now a month of inventory loss / shipping cost accrual.....But, it gets better!

To cancel the order, I have to refund the buyer out of pocket, aside from the funds they already sent, as the MP program is holding these funds in escrow.  Pretty cool huh?

So as far as I can see... I am now an Ebay employee, ebay is now also a government agency, I get to pay buyer for the privilege of giving them inventory.

Finally on the physical phone with an agent right now.... after a three hour wait for a call back.

They attempted to tell me SIN was mandatory, and I informed them of the Canadian government directions to not provide it.  They now think it is a problem with their form.

fingers crossed, but not really expecting this to resolve.  I feel I will just have to collapse my account, and the buyer will have to file a claim, and then ebay can just pay out of my $2k they are holding, then use the rest for pizza.

[cumos55]

When it states optional...  there must be more than one choice.

The options for Managed Payments ..

(1) Include the SIN

(2) Do not include the SIN..

It appears that under certain situations eBay states that the SIN is required when the seller registers for Managed Payments.   This is eBay's option.

[blackranda2]

You are right. eBay is not our employer. Never has been... never will be. Employers pay their employees.  eBay does not pay us they just manage our own money.   

[cumos55]

The Social Insurance Number.... SIN.... an Overview...

link to......

https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/services/sin.html

Protecting the SIN .....

Link to..... 

https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/services/sin/reports/shared-responsibility.ht...

and finally.... from this last link.....

Some businesses may ask for you for your SIN. This is strongly discouraged, but it is not illegal.

[byto253]

Just reading the later posts and saw the one about companies deleting SIN numbers.  That is what happened, because they were using them for identification in their own filing systems and there was a major overhaul and system reorganization for a lot of major companies that had to change to their own record numbering system.   The SINs were just way to easy to access otherwise and not protected.   

Employers do have to request it, as per an earlier post I put up, in order the fulfill a government mandated requirement.   Normally that would be by statute in order to give power to the requirement.

I do not see how ebay having an SIN number meets any of these requirements.  Certainly not collecting them all, just in case someone sells more than $20k.   If it is being required, that certainly appears to be a massive over reach and if it is being requested, should be referred to the government to get clarity.   

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

---

@byto253 wrote:

Just reading the later posts and saw the one about companies deleting SIN numbers.  That is what happened, because they were using them for identification in their own filing systems and there was a major overhaul and system reorganization for a lot of major companies that had to change to their own record numbering system.   The SINs were just way to easy to access otherwise and not protected.   

Employers do have to request it, as per an earlier post I put up, in order the fulfill a government mandated requirement.   Normally that would be by statute in order to give power to the requirement.

I do not see how ebay having an SIN number meets any of these requirements.  Certainly not collecting them all, just in case someone sells more than $20k.   If it is being required, that certainly appears to be a massive over reach and if it is being requested, should be referred to the government to get clarity.   

---

Is it possible that some sellers saw one thing when tried to sign up and others are seeing something completely different. When I enrolled  there was no mention of a SIN number or required options. There is also no way to confirm what I filled in. I just received a message saying approved. Then it was a matter of crossing fingers and seeing how things performed

For other sellers they may have seen a totally different form. One, that the update feature cannot resolve any suggested defects. Or seeing variations because of the system they are using? PC, App(s), Tablet, Chromebook(s) etc. The possibilities are endless.

Is there a completely separate application if you are sell on both dot ca and dot com or is it combo pizza?  Complete with glitches? This could be what is causing conflicts for another group of sellers. Dot ca all well and good. Dot com requiring information that Canadian would not have access to.

Throw in sellers needing to bank with a Canadian Bank vs a US Bank. It's the eBay update that headaches are made of!!!

-Lotz

[femmefan1946]

I do not see how ebay having an SIN number meets any of these requirements.

It doesn't.

It is illegal to demand the SIN.

We can provide it voluntarily, but eBay/Managed Payments cannot demand it.

Some have filled it in with 000-000-000 others have left it blank.

This was an error when eBay Canada used the eBayCOM form without thinking.

 That we do not have to give our SIN has several times been confirmed by eBay staff.

[cumos55]

Some businesses may ask for you for your SIN. This is strongly discouraged,

but it is not illegal.

As stated  by the Canada Revenue  Agency... as noted in reply 23 of this discussion

[deeeight]

I have a simple solution to the managed payments demanding SIN #s to get verified ... abandoning selling on ebay. I have bad personal credit rating. I have a lot of personal debt. If ebay is going to do credit checking to determine how long to hold payments....well... then they can GTFO. I have alternative places to list that are a lot less time consuming and eliminating the ebay final value fee means more money in my pocket. Between interac E-transfers and just being paid direct to my paypal, and being able to list for almost free on sites specfic to the sort of goods i'm selling, as well as on facebook classified groups... I really do NOT need this place anymore. And ebay clearly can do without my store fees each month. Only downside right now is cancelling my premium store (which is on a yearly subscription) will cost me just under $100CAD to do (the renewal date is in October and last october they hadn't yet bothered to tell Canadians that the Managed payment **bleep** was coming in April...otherwise i'd have switched to a monthly subscription at that time.  On ebay my premium store runs me $70CAD/mth+tax and on another site I pay $50USD for the ENTIRE YEAR.

[byto253]

Perfect, thanks for the succicent end note on this! 

[pjcdn2005]

I'm fairly sure that ebay does not do a credit check. Their decision to hold payments is based on the seller's recent history on eBay and/or on the sale price of the item.

[katlover1952]

I just signed up earlier this week & was not asked for any ID at all, just my bank account.

[findmeheretoo]

They want that number. I have same problem. There's no way around it.

[rock_pop_shop]

Same thing is going on with me!  Two of my four accounts are fine as I provided my drivers license, but the other where I enter in all 0's under my SIN are now locked. My money is being held hostage and this account can easily be verified if they'd allow me to simply the option of entering my Drivers Licensce number as I did with my other two accounts.

I may have to close my store and use a third party software to transfer my current listings to the one of my other stores.

ebay is really messing everything up  

[polestar9]

Yeah I'm really going to launder that $20 a month I make on eBay after all the fees have been taken out of it... 😕

They're charging me tax on selling my second hand stuff as well, so I just don't get it...

They're not supposed to charge tax on second hand things.

[marnotom!]

---

@polestar9 wrote:

They're not supposed to charge tax on second hand things.

---

We're getting off-topic on a five month old thread here, but who says that secondhand items aren't subject to taxes?

[pjcdn2005]

When you go to Value Village or buy a used car at a dealership you are required by law to pay sales tax so yes..they are supposed to charge tax on used items.

If you are referring to the tax that ebay charges the sellers on fees...the tax you are paying is for a service that ebay provides, not tax on the item.  

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

---

@rock_pop_shop wrote:

Same thing is going on with me!  Two of my four accounts are fine as I provided my drivers license, but the other where I enter in all 0's under my SIN are now locked. My money is being held hostage and this account can easily be verified if they'd allow me to simply the option of entering my Drivers Licensce number as I did with my other two accounts.

I may have to close my store and use a third party software to transfer my current listings to the one of my other stores.

ebay is really messing everything up  

---

Entering in the 0's may have caused the conflict. You are supposed to skip and leave blank. You can try going to personal settings and updating that field if it's available. If not you may require a reset from eBay MP staff. Finding/locating what shows can vary from user to user. When I check my page SIN does not show.......Anywhere.

https://ppcapp.ebay.ca/myppc/wallet/list

-Lotz

[megamagzrock]

I spent hours on the phone with low level customer service, asking them to reset my information and to allow me to enter my Drivers License instead of my SIN. Of course, I got absolutely nowhere with them, it was a total joke and waste of time.  The first 3 reps I spoke with told me that the only way to update /unlock this would be to put in my actuall SIN #, no f'in way am I doing that! They fed me all the one liners, "We'll have IT contact you within 72 hours" , "SIN is mandatory", "ebay is now considered like a Bank or employer and needs your SIN". I had to use Inkfrog to move all my listings (1400+) from my main store to one of my other accounts , and that was not fun at all ! How dare ebay treat us like this after we line their pockets with gold everyday. Holding our funds and stores hostage is down right criminal and we should all let the CBC know about it. This would be headline news on Marketplace and will create some real change!

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

---

@megamagzrock wrote:

I spent hours on the phone with low level customer service, asking them to reset my information and to allow me to enter my Drivers License instead of my SIN. Of course, I got absolutely nowhere with them, it was a total joke and waste of time.  The first 3 reps I spoke with told me that the only way to update /unlock this would be to put in my actuall SIN #, no f'in way am I doing that! They fed me all the one liners, "We'll have IT contact you within 72 hours" , "SIN is mandatory", "ebay is now considered like a Bank or employer and needs your SIN". I had to use Inkfrog to move all my listings (1400+) from my main store to one of my other accounts , and that was not fun at all ! How dare ebay treat us like this after we line their pockets with gold everyday. Holding our funds and stores hostage is down right criminal and we should all let the CBC know about it. This would be headline news on Marketplace and will create some real change!

---

tyler@ebay 

Has a SIN # Disclaimer been added to most current application for MP? Wasn't this all resolved and CS was told this is no longer a requirement?

-Lotz

[tyler@ebay]

---

@lotzofuniquegoodies wrote:

---

@megamagzrock wrote:

I spent hours on the phone with low level customer service, asking them to reset my information and to allow me to enter my Drivers License instead of my SIN. Of course, I got absolutely nowhere with them, it was a total joke and waste of time.  The first 3 reps I spoke with told me that the only way to update /unlock this would be to put in my actuall SIN #, no f'in way am I doing that! They fed me all the one liners, "We'll have IT contact you within 72 hours" , "SIN is mandatory", "ebay is now considered like a Bank or employer and needs your SIN". I had to use Inkfrog to move all my listings (1400+) from my main store to one of my other accounts , and that was not fun at all ! How dare ebay treat us like this after we line their pockets with gold everyday. Holding our funds and stores hostage is down right criminal and we should all let the CBC know about it. This would be headline news on Marketplace and will create some real change!

---

tyler@ebay 

Has a SIN # Disclaimer been added to most current application for MP? Wasn't this all resolved and CS was told this is no longer a requirement?

-Lotz

---

Hi @lotzofuniquegoodies - I am not aware of a disclaimer being added to the flow. I know that the term 'optional' was added to the flow, and the plan is also in motion to remove it as a field altogether.