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@merritt-motorcycle-salvage wrote:I know rose-dee mentioned something about posting on .com boards, not sure if she had chance to do so?
Yes, I did - a great big "open letter" in bold face type, same one on both the seller and the buyer boards. My hope was that eCommerce Bytes might pick up on it and do some further reporting/investigating on their own.
The very first thing that happened when I posted my notice was that a US participant posted that it was a bad idea to direct US buyers to the Canadian site because they would not have the same buyer protection (I'm not convinced this is the case, since the MBG applies to both sites, the Paypal buyer coverage should be the same, however the Hassle Free Returns hasn't yet hit Canada). I was thinking - thanks a lot, you've just taken all the air out of my balloon for anyone else who sees the notice.
Within seconds on the Seller board another poster jumped in to say that they were warning US buyers to be cautious about logging onto .ca to buy, since their eBay Bucks would not be valid. I don't know for certain whether this is true or not, and I meant to ask Raphael, but we got rather caught up in more important discussions. 
I know the eBay Bucks programme was cancelled in Canada, but does anyone know whether US buyers, logged onto .ca to buy from a Canadian, can still use their eBay Bucks?
As an aside, I actually had a US buyer this past week who wanted to make an offer on an item and told me she was going to be using her accumulated eBay Bucks. I'm fairly certain she was logged onto eBay.com, but there were no hitches with the sale, so I presume it works in that way at least. I just don't know whether the eBay Bucks are invalid once a buyer logs onto a site other than .com. Apparently eBay Bucks is a very popular programme in the US.
If it's true that US buyers can't use their eBay Bucks on .ca, that's a consideration we need to keep in mind in directing US customers to .ca -- unless you want an upset buyer who gets a nasty surprise upon paying for their item. From that point of view, I'm actually glad the US board poster brought the issue up.
rose-dee wrote:
merritt-motorcycle-salvage wrote:
I know rose-dee mentioned something about posting on .com boards, not sure if she had chance to do so?
Yes, I did - a great big "open letter" in bold face type, same one on both the seller and the buyer boards. My hope was that eCommerce Bytes might pick up on it and do some further reporting/investigating on their own.
The very first thing that happened when I posted my notice was that a US participant posted that it was a bad idea to direct US buyers to the Canadian site because they would not have the same buyer protection (I'm not convinced this is the case, since the MBG applies to both sites, the Paypal buyer coverage should be the same, however the Hassle Free Returns hasn't yet hit Canada). I was thinking - thanks a lot, you've just taken all the air out of my balloon for anyone else who sees the notice.
Within seconds on the Seller board another poster jumped in to say that they were warning US buyers to be cautious about logging onto .ca to buy, since their eBay Bucks would not be valid. I don't know for certain whether this is true or not, and I meant to ask Raphael, but we got rather caught up in more important discussions. I know the eBay Bucks programme was cancelled in Canada, but does anyone know whether US buyers, logged onto .ca to buy from a Canadian, can still use their eBay Bucks?
As an aside, I actually had a US buyer this past week who wanted to make an offer on an item and told me she was going to be using her accumulated eBay Bucks. I'm fairly certain she was logged onto eBay.com, but there were no hitches with the sale, so I presume it works in that way at least. I just don't know whether the eBay Bucks are invalid once a buyer logs onto a site other than .com. Apparently eBay Bucks is a very popular programme in the US.
If it's true that US buyers can't use their eBay Bucks on .ca, that's a consideration we need to keep in mind in directing US customers to .ca -- unless you want an upset buyer who gets a nasty surprise upon paying for their item. From that point of view, I'm actually glad the US board poster brought the issue up.
Thank you for your effort. It`s getting quite clear we are up creek without a paddle. Not matter what angle we approach from we are pushed back.
It is beyond unacceptable the way this issue is being treated, all we can do is shake our heads at this point. FRUSTRATING.
@mjwl2006 wrote:I think we're hitting our heads against the wall by complaining to eBay.ca staffers that the eBay.com Shopping Cart doesn't work for Canadian sellers registered here. We need to complain loudly to EBAY.COM, no? eBay.ca knows it doesn't work. We're on their backs all the time; they can't do anything to fix it. We need to take our fight south. It'll probably be as effective as throwing rocks at a train but I think we're pelting the wrong people now.
Well, I guess at this Wed.'s board hour, I ruffled a few feathers and disturbed a few more shirts, but I feel I've done everything I could in that direction. However, I don't believe they can't do anything to fix the issue. I don't think it's a question of technical impossibility, but of agendas.
I'm afraid I've become even more cynical about eBay's agenda than I was previously. After all the back and forth arguments, the best Raphael could offer was that he wasn't explaining the problem properly and that's why I wasn't understanding.
However I understand this now: Clearly there are some big sellers who have been using a means to work around the "cart disconnect", at least for any buyer who lands on their store, without listing on .com. It is possible to do, it is being done, and eBay knows it's being done, despite the protestations we've heard to the contrary.
Surely if an outside programmer can do it, eBay can do it. At the very least, having an automated "jump" for store owners would be a start. I'm sorry, but I can't accept that these big stores are programming in the background on a completely unconnected basis to eBay. Interestingly, the automation on the few big stores I tested functioned in exactly the same way.
Consider this -- if you have a store, even if a buyer clicks on an item in a search and still be on .com, isn't it likely that buyer will look at your other items too? I think so, particularly if a seller is offering many different variations on a similar theme, or a nice range of products in a line. A storefront does make it easier to project your wares in one glance. As soon as the buyer clicks on a store item - they're off to .ca, and 90% of our problems are solved.
Accordingly, I don't buy Raphael's argument that such a feature is useless because most buyers start with searches. That may be true, but to me a search is just step 1 when we're talking about stores, as I said above.
EBay offers all sorts of other customizing options for store owners, why not an automated "jump" link to .ca? I don't believe they couldn't manage that. I believe they don't want to do it because of cost, time, manpower, whatever the internal reasons may be. I also believe, from what was said on Wednesday, that Raphael et al, for whatever reasons, are continuing to fail to acknowledge the consequences for buyers -- and that includes Canadian and other national buyers using .com. I'm not convinced they want to make that argument to San Jose. Perhaps they've simply been told by San Jose to shut up about the whole issue.
What I find the most upsetting is that, through months of questions about the "cart disconnect", Raphael has never mentioned that it is possible to automatically reroute buyers to .ca, and that some sellers were already doing it. Why couldn't he have said this 6 months ago? Had I known that, I might have looked into paying a programmer.
As far as taking the argument to eBay HQ is concerned, it would be a huge undertaking to organize, and I really don't think it would be worth the time and effort in the end. They can ignore their sellers as much as they like. A public "name and shame" campaign to make them look like idiots and bunglers to their corporate peers (and especially to their shareholders!) might be more productive, but just as difficult to manage. What is needed is a major, non-eBay insider, shareholder to care, preferably a significant Canadian shareholder. Anybody know of one?
The other, much longer shot, is legal action. I happen to have a background in this field (commercial litigation). I'll try to sum up the situation in a couple of sentences. First, class action suits are proscribed by eBay's own contract in the US. So if you list on .com and have accepted the listing agreement there, you're out of luck.
However, the Canadian listing agreement (last time I looked) doesn't have the same terms, and there has in fact been a precedent set in Québec for a class/group action against eBay for breach of contract. The last I checked that suit was going to be appealed, which can take years to resolve, so the outcome could determine whether further suits are possible, at least in that province. Again, these sorts of actions take $$$ and time, time, time, as well as determination and a lot of co-operation amongst the plaintiffs. If sufficient losses can be proven -- and that's the key problem -- then the cost of the lawsuit might be worth the risk. However, it's a big risk, and believe me, it can be very stressful on the participants as well.
Proving Canadian sellers' losses is the sticking point. How do you measure what hasn't happened? On the other hand, simply demanding recompense from eBay for losses isn't going to work either. They are holding all the cards, they know litigation is virtually impossible in practical terms, so why cave in to a lot of complaining Canadians?
An interesting aside: I've just been warned by a message from eBay today that I'm about to lose my US TRS (the TRS Plus, which I lost long ago), based on transaction numbers. Gee, I wonder why? I had to LOL at the link in that message to "tips to help keep TRS". How about not driving US sellers away -- that would be a start eBay, thank you very much.
Sorry my friends, I tried my best to get through but I'm not willing to crack my head open against this brick wall. It isn't coming down. They may fix this problem eventually, but in the meantime I'm afraid to say it's "every man/woman for him/herself" out there on eBay.ca.
Personally I'm going to do what I can to hang on as long as I can over the next year, but I'm already planning for my "exit strategy" from this site. It was a great place for me to sell for many years; it really isn't anymore if they don't fix this issue.
In the meantime, for sellers like me whose buyers are mostly American, I'd suggest removing any automated shipping discount rules (they don't work anyway), and considering changing all listings to "Immediate Payment Required". The alternative, which Raphael keeps saying (funny, he's a .ca rep, is he not?) is to list on .com, or else offer every item with free shipping to everywhere, both of which options may be unpalatable to a lot of Canadian sellers, and/or have unanticipated issues and downsides.
I am going to look into putting a link to .ca on my listings as 'merritt' suggests, and just hope eBay Bucks or other US programmes don't cancel out when buyers get there.
To 'pj' -- I checked the link you mentioned, on one of your listings, but it took me to .com, not .ca. Then I realized you must list most of your items on .com, so routing buyers back to .ca isn't what you would want. I'm going to see if I can accomplish the same thing to jump to .ca. At least it would be a start. As I've said, I'm not prepared to list everything on .com, for many reasons, so it's a matter of balancing the trade-offs to stay on .ca.
I've said all I can today on this subject. I have to go off now and do some work to make money on another site that actually allows buyers to checkout and pay for my items, first time, every time, no matter where they're from. I think I just felt the last straw fall on my back here at eBay this Wednesday. 
@mjwl2006 wrote:"What I am meaning though is that eBay.COM also has a Board Hour. What we need to do is start asking our questions THERE. Raise awareness, tell ebay.COM that we find the status quo to be unacceptable and request a hard and firm timeline as to precisely when it will be fixed. As far as I know, eBay.co.UK also has a Board Hour."
Yes, that's certainly worth a try, but I think it would need to be a coordinated effort, and not just one person, which would be seen as mere griping by one disgruntled individual. I don't know whether you've spent much time on the .com boards, but be prepared -- the .ca boards are a tea party in comparison.
"As an aside, I was on the phone with eBay Customer service today and, in dealing with one of two issues this week that stemmed from a conflict with the US Cart, when I mentioned the fact it (the US CART) doesn't work with Canadian listings or in fact any listing from anywhere in the world outside of ebay.com, the Customer Service rep who took my call was unaware of that. 'It's a different team.'"
EBay's customer service is a travesty. It's a "different team" in the sense that those people are given minimal training, and have no insight or judgment when it comes to problems beyond what they can read off their policy sheets. They are basically call centre operators with directions to mollify the callers at all costs. This is one avenue that's really not worth wasting time on.
"Remember, not all eBay.com users are American. My two US Cart conflicts this week came from one Canadian and one UK buyer who found themselves buying my ebay.ca stuff at eBay.com. Buyers and sellers alike are under the impression that all eBay is equal. I did until this happened too. It was my assumption one cart = one basket no matter where I was logged on, registered to, or buying from."
This is of course a perfectly meaningful point (which I've brought up at the Wed. board hours) but apparently it's made little or no impression upon Raphael. I say "apparently" because I'm beginning to believe it's not that Raphael doesn't "get" that this is a bigger problem than a few Canadian sellers with discount issues, rather I think there is a reason he can't be seen openly to agree with that perception. To do so would be to agree that eBay has a big, fundamental flaw that it hasn't seen fit to fix. My goodness, what would the shareholders say?
Incidentally, that's why I love my other site: one cart = one basket no matter where my buyers are logged on, registered to, or buying from.
I still think legal action is ultimately the best route if somebody could figure out how to prove what is referred to as the quantum of losses, and demonstrate that those losses were directly a result of eBay's failure to meet its obligations to users in this particular way -- a hard nut to crack on both accounts. The thing about litigation against a big commercial entity is that it almost always gets picked up by the media (if it's a juicy enough issue), and then the settlement offers start coming in. However, first you have to have evidence that is convincing enough. It's all a game of chess.
(I'm probably now going to get kicked off the boards for open sedition.
)
Must run -- I've got nicer fish to fry elswhere....
@merritt-motorcycle-salvage wrote:here is sample, i just did something real quick and simple... ill be removing it shortly
http://stores.ebay.com/merrittmotorcyclesalvage?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
here a good little video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0QGd-ShA34
Hi Merritt -- Just before I go, I wanted to say thanks for posting these. It gave me some reassurance that I'm not as clueless with eBay programming as I thought.
If you look at my storefront, I've set up a similar notice to yours (top right), although I used the Promotion Box feature to do this. Unfortunately eBay has eliminated the ability to do much "custom" editing of these boxes (they used to allow quite a bit).
I already use the bottom of my store "banner" (in the store display set-up features) for other purposes, so I didn't want to use that section, but it is possible to do as well.
What I'd like to be able to do is have an automatic "jump" or link to my store on .ca located at the top of each of my listings -- something that buyers will see if they click on any item. The reason I say this is that I notice from my Omniture statistics that the visits to my storefront are never as large as visits to individual items. I think this may take a little more programming aptitude than I've got. I see 'pj's' link is like that (although it goes to her store on .com I think). I'm going to try making mine look more like a button or perhaps a bit larger so it can't be missed (my buyers tend to be readers, unlike some demographics). I'll see how far I get.
@mjwl2006 wrote:I had thought of that but my concern is if we contact her directly about this, we could be sanctioned for 'un-ebay-like behaviour' which is something that goes against the user agreement. I'm not certain if trying to talk about it publicly would cross the line where eBay might step in to silence us and I don't want to do anything (or encourage anyone to do anything) that might jeopardize their future on eBay.
Well, I think eBay could gripe all they want, but they can't stop people from talking to the press -- off this site. They aren't the arbiters of free speech once one is away from eBay.
Also, in speaking to any media away from this site, presumably we'd be doing so in our own names. That would make it difficult for the ordinary public to connect us with our eBay IDs. And so what if they threw me off the site? I'm practically being thrown off as it is, through the death of a thousand cuts.
I was thinking about this today. They're forever lecturing us about how to be a good seller. There really isn't much more I can do -- TRS, 100% positive FB, no defects (so far, fingers crossed), long-time member, full store of listings, many with free shipping, almost all with low or discounted shipping, many with discounted prices, new listings every couple of weeks. Honestly, what the heck more do they expect from an independent "boutique" seller?
Then our efforts to sell successfully are sabotaged by eBay itself. We have that gaping maw of policy ready to swallow us, i.e.: Defects, INR/INAD claims, MBG, returns and cancellations of various kinds, listing restrictions, fees every time we breathe, listing limitations and rules, not to mention shipping woes and problems - not directly eBay's fault, but not helped by their promotion of free shipping everywhere.
To compound our ability to sell we have all sorts of site issues, vanished features, other features that were working fine that eBay sees fit to meddle with or break, US customers that can't make a combined order and get our discounts, but most critical of all is now the "cart disconnect" that prevents any buyer on .com from being able to check out seamlessly if they follow eBay's directions.
So now we're being told to list on .com to avoid these problems? What better way to bleed off thousands of marginal or troublesome little Canadian buyers until the .ca site can be shut down. That wouldn't surprise me either. The rest (like me) will probably eventually give up on their own.
I saw this week from my tests that big retailers who can afford prestigious service from eBay will survive because they're able to bypass a lot of the problems we ordinary sellers encounter. It's quite conceivable eBay has a completely separate user agreement with those kind of sellers.
I haven't read the eBay (Canada) user agreement lately, but I probably should if I can stand the tedium. Since we sellers aren't employees, the concept of confidentiality agreements and non-disclosure (i.e. gagging) cannot apply. We can complain about anything we darn well please to anybody we please if it isn't done using eBay's site.
It may be that my views are coloured by the fact that I know what eBay used to be as a selling venue. Up until about 2013, it was a great place for a small, boutique seller to make a modest living. My comparison of eBay to other sites hasn't helped either. When I see another major online venue that can provide everything eBay doesn't to its sellers (and its buyers!), I wonder why I stay here. Hope, I suppose is the reason, but mine is running out.
@canadianfootballcards wrote:Have you contacting eCommerceBytes directly?
Rather than hoping Ina picks it up, I'd think reaching out to her may produce some coverage.
I could do so. I just need to properly summarize the issue.
Yes, I had thought of that too. There really isn't any downside I can think of to approaching her directly. Just point her to this thread and others like it, as well as to this week's Board Hour (March 25th). She can contact me directly if she wants her ear talked off on the subject. 
I'd be delighted if someone would take this on. I just don't have the time right now or I'd do it (CRA/tax return is my priority task for next week, yechhh).
To add a little more information to what has already been posted on this thread, I had been considering changing all my listings to "Immediate Payment Required", but discovered something I thought sellers might like to be reminded about as a heads-up.
Yesterday, on listing a new item, I chose IPR on the SYI form and took a look at the pop-up information box next to IPR. It's shown in the screen shot below. I decided after seeing this to postpone changing all my listings to IPR (for the time being).
Although specifying IPR on a listing will apparently prevent those "Item Not Available" messages popping up on the broken .com Cart, it appears buyers won't be able to use "Request Total from Seller" if they do manage to purchase more than one item by backing out, paying, backing out, selecting the next item, then asking for a total on the last item (to get the seller to adjust the combined shipping). This might also apply if a buyer is unsure about the total they see on one individual item. I imagine this will also affect Canadian (or other) buyers who are using the .ca Cart as well.
This could cause problems for some sellers, especially if buyers attempt to use the alternate method of "Contact Seller" link after a purchase and inadvertently open a case.
I thought I'd post this information here in case sellers hadn't realized this, so that they can consider the pros and cons before using IPR on all listings. I suppose it may end up being a "lesser of two evils" choice in many cases.
(P.S. I had to laugh at the reference to seller discounts in the pop-up message. I've removed my automated discount rules, as they definitely don't work for buyers on .com and don't seem to work reliably on .ca if there is a mix of items with free shipping already shown and others with shipping costs.)
This post is in follow-up to the discussion on using IPR ("Immediate Payment Required") as a means of avoiding the error messages (e.g. "Item Not Available", "This Item is Up for Auction") that buyers on .com see when trying to purchase more than 1 item from a Canadian seller.
I wanted to find out what the difference would be for a buyer on .com between buying items with and without IPR.
I ran tests on a group of 6 of my items that I changed to IPR. I logged onto .com with my alternate ID and went through the initial steps to purchase each one. I then took off the IPR and repeated the process.
I didn't need to continue to actual payment in each case, as the results were clear: IPR prevents a buyer on .com from being able to be routed into the dysfunctional cart. With IPR there is no message line inviting the buyer "to buy more items, add to cart", as we have found shows up without IPR.
IPR forces the buyer back into the old style checkout flow, using BIN then paying for each item. This is absolutely fine with me for the time being, and a good enough reason to use IPR. Without IPR, the buyer gets the dysfunctional .com cart with all the undesirable and confusing messages I showed in my previous tests on this discussion thread.
My main concerns with IPR initially were: 1) that being forced to pay immediately might turn off some buyers who like to choose, then pay later; and 2) that buyers wouldn't be able to use the "Request Total from Seller" function. Since my buyers seem to almost always pay immediately anyway, #1) isn't terribly important to me, although it might be to some sellers.
As far as #2) is concerned, buyers still have a regular message box available on the checkout screen, if they wish to ask for a total (for example on purchasing the final item in a series). Otherwise, I'm quite happy to adjust the order and refund excess shipping from my end if it will bring back my multi-item orders. Since .com buyers can't combine items from Canadian sellers anyway, that aspect is irrelevant.
Using IPR will avoid the confusing and unacceptable "Item Not Available" messages appearing for .com buyers.
The downside of IPR is that I'll lose some pennies in FVFs on shipping through refunds on multi-item orders. However, in my view, it's infinitely better than having a buyer see a message that an item is "Unavailable" or "Up for Auction" when it is not. That in itself could kill an entire multi-item sale.
It may be different for Canadian sellers who know that they sell mainly to Canadians who are logged onto .ca. However, many Canadian buyers probably log onto .com to make purchases, which means they will be running into the "cart disconnect".
I thought I would post the results of these tests here so that buyers can decide whether or not to use IPR.
For my part, it's a question of the lesser of two evils, so I'm going to specify IPR on everything and remove my notice to my buyers to log onto .ca to make purchases. Until the US cart gets fixed, in my opinion using IPR is a better "stop gap" measure than listing all my items on .com or listing everything to everywhere with free shipping.
For anyone who may be interested, here are two sample screens which compare results (I've blacked out personal info):
1) Buyer on .com clicks on "BIN" for an item without IPR, chooses the suggested "to buy more items, add to cart" link, then selects a 2nd item. Note the error messages circled in red next to the 2nd item (this is the same result as with earlier tests I posted). The notes in red are to the left of "Continue Shopping" button are mine.
2) Buyer on .com clicks on "BIN" for an item with IPR. Notice there is no link "to buy more items, add to cart". The buyer must pay for this one item, then purchase the next, and so on. However, there is a "message" box the buyer can use to ask for a shipping adjustment if need be (e.g. on the final item of a series of items purchased).
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