Defect rate - from bad to worse

[rosscd57]

For those who have not seen this new eBay fiasco - here it is.

New way to measure performance rewards sellers providing great service

• Starting with the August 20 monthly seller evaluation, a new measure, the transaction defect rate ("defect rate"), will replace the current four individual detailed seller rating requirements in evaluating seller performance. This new rating may impact your status.
• The defect rate is simply the percentage of a seller's successful transactions that have one or more of the following transaction-related defects, the top predictors that a buyer will leave eBay or buy less:
  • Detailed seller rating of 1, 2 or 3 for item as described
  • Detailed seller rating of 1 for shipping time
  • Negative or neutral feedback
  • Return initiated for a reason that indicates the item was not as described
  • eBay Money Back Guarantee (previously known as eBay Buyer Protection) or PayPal Purchase Protection case opened for an item not received or an item not as described
  • Seller-cancelled transactions
• Starting with the August 20 evaluation, to meet eBay's minimum standard, sellers can have up to a maximum 5% of transactions with one or more transaction defects over the most recent evaluation period. A maximum 2% will allow a seller to qualify as an eBay Top Rated Seller. The  same requirements apply both to your Global and US seller performance  standards.
• The defect rate won't affect your status until you have transactions with defects with at least 8 different buyers (at least 5 different buyers to impact Top Rated status) within your evaluation period.
• Just as today, sellers can have a maximum of 0.3% of eBay Money Back Guarantee or PayPal Purchase Protection closed cases without seller resolution over the most recent evaluation period. That means the buyer opened the case, you weren't able to resolve it, the buyer reached out to eBay or PayPal to review it, and eBay found you responsible.
• Just as today, sellers with 400 or more transactions over the past 3 months will be evaluated based on the past 3 months and sellers with fewer than 400 transactions will be evaluated based on the past 12 months.

In general, the lower your defect rate, the better your position in Best Match search results

• By focusing squarely on what matters most to buyers, the new transaction defect rate allows eBay to recognize and reward sellers who consistently deliver the great service buyers expect—and to identify and respond to the experiences that erode confidence and drive buyers away.
• If you maintain a low defect rate, eBay will reward you with an enhanced position in Best Match search results, so your track record for great service can pay off in more visibility and potential sales.

[rainbow71113]

I just looked at my defect page- they are putting them in 2 different categories- open cases are in items and listings and the other is in cancelled transactions.  So even if the buyer closes the case-having received the item or finally figured themselves out....(honestly, do they even read the title!!)  those will still count under open cases.  If a seller cancels the transaction then that shows up in cancelled.  Of course ALL count against us. 

[Anonymous]

Why is that eBay wants to continue to "penalize" us sellers?????  The sellers are not that stupid that eBay needs to develop more insane policies for sellers to abide by!!

I noticed that eBay never have Buyer Updates.  Why not??!!  Many buyers need to receive the Buyer Udpates like unpaid items, to make payment in timely manner.

Some buyers got galls asking if they can pay in 1 month or even in 3 months.  It doesn't work in the eBay system as the sold items would disappear from my account after 30 days. 

Hey eBay, wake up and developo Buyers Updates and send them to the buyers and stop picking on sellers!!  Enough is enough!!

I am totally not comfortable with the recent  Seller Updates, I see it will hurt many of us.  I am NOT happy.

[rose-dee]

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@isis1313 wrote:

I just looked at my defect page- they are putting them in 2 different categories- open cases are in items and listings and the other is in cancelled transactions.  So even if the buyer closes the case-having received the item or finally figured themselves out....(honestly, do they even read the title!!)  those will still count under open cases.  If a seller cancels the transaction then that shows up in cancelled.  Of course ALL count against us. 

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Yes, my understanding is that any open case will count as a defect unless resolved by eBay in favour of the seller.  Which means that even if a buyer is completely satisfied (or made a mistake in opening a case in the first place) and closes the case, it will remain as a defect.  Fair huh?

If I read the seller update correctly, although the defects may show up in different places on one transaction, it's the transaction itself that is defected, so you won't be penalized for more than one defect in a transaction.  Not much comfort if the defect is unfair in the first place.

[pjcdn2005]

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@isis1313 wrote:

I just looked at my defect page- they are putting them in 2 different categories- open cases are in items and listings and the other is in cancelled transactions.  So even if the buyer closes the case-having received the item or finally figured themselves out....(honestly, do they even read the title!!)  those will still count under open cases.  If a seller cancels the transaction then that shows up in cancelled.  Of course ALL count against us. 

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One transaction will count as one defect although the body of the dashboard shows each separate defect. But near the top of the page it gives you a percentage and the number of defects that you are being rated on.

[rainbow71113]

well, if I'm understanding this correctly we should force ebay to monitor the case and have them close it?  but the buyer has all the control over the outcome of the closing.  If they say they've received the item or close the case themselves or if you process a refund -the case closes- none are technically closed by ebay "in favour of the seller" .  So is the solution emailing the buyer and saying "don't close the case until ebay finds it in my favour"  yeah, that will go over really well.  I liked it before when closed cases only counted against you if you were found at fault or did not resolve the issues. 

[rainbow71113]

another way to go about it is to not cancel the transactions, if the fees are low and it doesn't matter to the buyer or the outcome just leave it uncanceled.  I've done that for a couple of items.  The buyer can leave feedback on a canceled transaction anyway so the only thing that is a factor is fees.  For instance I couldn't find a magazine, phoned the customer and said that I would pay his shipping as soon as I found it.  When I did find it, he no longer wanted it but I didn't bother canceling the transaction, I just absorbed the fees.  This may be the solution- since this is really up to the seller, the buyer isn't affected by a cancel-most don't know what to do when they get a cancel request anyway.  

[pjcdn2005]

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@isis1313 wrote:

well, if I'm understanding this correctly we should force ebay to monitor the case and have them close it?  but the buyer has all the control over the outcome of the closing.  If they say they've received the item or close the case themselves or if you process a refund -the case closes- none are technically closed by ebay "in favour of the seller" .  So is the solution emailing the buyer and saying "don't close the case until ebay finds it in my favour"  yeah, that will go over really well.  I liked it before when closed cases only counted against you if you were found at fault or did not resolve the issues. 

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The way that I understand it, if the buyer files an inr and then you enter the delivery confirmation number showing that the item has been delivered, then you can ask ebay to close the case in your favour and you will not receive a defect.  Or, you might be able to escalate the case yourself and have the case found in your favour but I'm not certain that results in the same result.

If a buyer opens an inr and then a couple of days later says that the item was delivered, I don't think that there is a way to have the case found in your favour...you still receive a defect.

Perhaps this will change before August but it seems that the whole system is favouring delivery confirmation numbers which isn't a good thing for many of us.

Similar results in a buyer files an not as described claim. I believe that even if you tell the buyer to return for refund or if you refund the buyer without a return, you still get a defect. The only way to have the case found in your favour is for the case to be escalated and for ebay to side with you and say that the buyer is not entitled to a refund.  I don't think that happens very often but I don't know that for a fact.

[pjcdn2005]

another way to go about it is to not cancel the transactions

It sounds as if that will work if the buyer hasn't paid. But there have been reports of sellers (myself and others) who have not cancelled a transaction but have refunded the buyer and have received a defect because of the refund.

I asked Raphael @ ebay on the weekly board question hour why I got a defect for a non cancelled, refunded transaction and here was his answer.

1. Just issuing a full refund to a buyer without documenting the reason via a cancellation request might put you at rick of getting a defect for that transaction. I was just informed as ell that a buyer asking for a cancellation via eBay messages, that can also be used as proof that the cancellation was not initiated by the seller.

[rose-dee]

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@isis1313 wrote:

another way to go about it is to not cancel the transactions, if the fees are low and it doesn't matter to the buyer or the outcome just leave it uncanceled.  I've done that for a couple of items.  The buyer can leave feedback on a canceled transaction anyway so the only thing that is a factor is fees.  For instance I couldn't find a magazine, phoned the customer and said that I would pay his shipping as soon as I found it.  When I did find it, he no longer wanted it but I didn't bother canceling the transaction, I just absorbed the fees.  This may be the solution- since this is really up to the seller, the buyer isn't affected by a cancel-most don't know what to do when they get a cancel request anyway.  

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I agree.  If the FVFs aren't a big issue, it may occasionally be better to let an unwanted item transaction simply "die on the vine" rather than trying to cancel it.  I believe the transaction expires completely after a period of time (60 days?) anyway. You're right that cancellations seem to be confusing for buyers. 

Personally I think eBay is going to be sorting out details and ironing out bugs with this defect programme over the next few months, so some things could change. 

[rainbow71113]

thanks for all that info....okay, so we are going back to my original question about refunding overpayments of shipping charges.  If just refunding the payments is going to make a defect then I'm not going to combine shipping, I will just mail out 15 parcels.  This is going to tick off a LOT of people and discourage repeat business.  I guess I will have to put in my listing that items paid for separately will be shipped separately but that doesn't help the buyers who do want a combined invoice but are forced to pay for each item before they can purchase another.  I have yet to figure out why some buyers can rack up the sales and some have to pay.  It used to be that buyers set something up in Paypal for immediate payment and had to call them to get it removed, don't know if that's still the case or not.

[rose-dee]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

another way to go about it is to not cancel the transactions

It sounds as if that will work if the buyer hasn't paid. But there have been reports of sellers (myself and others) who have not cancelled a transaction but have refunded the buyer and have received a defect because of the refund.

@I asked Raphael @ ebay on the weekly board question hour why I got a defect for a non cancelled, refunded transaction and here was his answer.

1. Just issuing a full refund to a buyer without documenting the reason via a cancellation request might put you at rick of getting a defect for that transaction. I was just informed as ell that a buyer asking for a cancellation via eBay messages, that can also be used as proof that the cancellation was not initiated by the seller.

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This whole response by Raphael really caught my attention today.  If this is accurate, then eBay is effectively saying sellers won't be able to issue a refund without eBay's permission, otherwise suffer a defect? 

What nonsense.  If a buyer contacts me first (without opening a case), and I refund immediately and cheerfully, the buyer is happy, what business is it of eBay's?  It used to be that the main reason for cancelling such a transaction was to get FVFs back.  Now eBay is essentially saying a cancellation is mandatory -- or else.  The term "control freak" comes to mind.  I'm flabbergasted at this.

I'm also surprised at the last statement by Raphael above.  Last week I asked about the necessity of proving that a buyer made the "ask" for a cancellation and was told it really didn't matter as long as a seller didn't choose the "I ran out of stock" or "I sold item to another buyer" options.  The message was that eBay doesn't monitor buyer-seller communications through Messages.  Well, that is apparently not so, according to this statement -- they can (and will) use eBay Messages as proof. 

If this is in fact true, sellers should make darn certain that buyers do the asking before sending out a cancellation for any transaction, even with the reason "Other". 

I get the feeling, like many other major changes on eBay, that eBay itself will be floundering around for some time trying to figure out their own rules and get the implementation working consistently. 

[rose-dee]

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@isis1313 wrote:

thanks for all that info....okay, so we are going back to my original question about refunding overpayments of shipping charges.  If just refunding the payments is going to make a defect then I'm not going to combine shipping, I will just mail out 15 parcels.  This is going to tick off a LOT of people and discourage repeat business.  I guess I will have to put in my listing that items paid for separately will be shipped separately but that doesn't help the buyers who do want a combined invoice but are forced to pay for each item before they can purchase another.  I have yet to figure out why some buyers can rack up the sales and some have to pay.  It used to be that buyers set something up in Paypal for immediate payment and had to call them to get it removed, don't know if that's still the case or not.

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'isis' -- At today's Wed. discussion, Rodney did confirm that a compatible cart system is being rolled out on eBay.ca.  As usual, no timeframe for full implementation, but apparently it should (?) solve all these problems of combined purchases and discounts. 

In the meantime, I wouldn't suggest you send out 15 separate parcels.  I believe you can still refund shipping without having to actually cancel any of the transactions, as follows. 

What I'm planning to do is this:  If the FVFs are an issue for me (i.e. if the amount is large), I'll choose the largest priced item to refund the shipping on (so it will be a partial, as opposed to full refund on the transaction).  From that refund I'll deduct the amount of FVFs otherwise payable .  In other words, my buyers will still get a substantial refund, minus the 9% FVF on that refunded money, and I'll ship in one parcel.  The way I see it is that a 91% refund is better than none at all, until the cart mess is cleaned up by eBay.  

[rainbow71113]

where do we stand on ebay's return policy?  if a buyer changes their mind and returns the item and we refund the payment, are we getting a defect?  I haven't had a lot of returns but one lady thought she was buying a pre-quilted item and it was just the top that you still had to quilt.  She returned it but had ripped open the top of the plastic bag- what annoyed me is the bottom was resealable!!  so now I have to list it as used.  I probably shouldn't have refunded based on that but I'm too nice.  This was handled as an item not as described when indeed I had described it completely.   I know some buyers who photocopy charts etc and return the original.  Does anyone know how these are going to reflect on the defects when a buyer can so easily say it's not as described- they just have to say it arrived damaged (done in the mail)...and does ebay side on the seller's when it is damaged in the mail and obviously went out in brand new condition..etc.....?  no one will admit to photocopying and I think it's one of the only reasons it can be returned unless the seller accepts returns.  Also ebay is trying to encourage return policies but if each one is going to be a defect just because you are refunding the payment how is that going to play out in the overall return policies.  some sellers have a no questions asked policy....they might want to rethink that one. 

[rainbow71113]

Hi Rose-dee

that would be great if my items were large ticket, usually it's a bunch of $10 items but that's a good idea  I guess I can partially refund all the shipping plus the fees associated with the transactions- so a partial refund will not count against us?  at this point I'm dubious...LOL.  Let's hope they get something in place for repeat purchases before August..LOL

[pjcdn2005]

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@rose-dee wrote:

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

another way to go about it is to not cancel the transactions

It sounds as if that will work if the buyer hasn't paid. But there have been reports of sellers (myself and others) who have not cancelled a transaction but have refunded the buyer and have received a defect because of the refund.

@I asked Raphael @ ebay on the weekly board question hour why I got a defect for a non cancelled, refunded transaction and here was his answer.

1. Just issuing a full refund to a buyer without documenting the reason via a cancellation request might put you at rick of getting a defect for that transaction. I was just informed as ell that a buyer asking for a cancellation via eBay messages, that can also be used as proof that the cancellation was not initiated by the seller.

---

This whole response by Raphael really caught my attention today.  If this is accurate, then eBay is effectively saying sellers won't be able to issue a refund without eBay's permission, otherwise suffer a defect? 

What nonsense.  If a buyer contacts me first (without opening a case), and I refund immediately and cheerfully, the buyer is happy, what business is it of eBay's?  It used to be that the main reason for cancelling such a transaction was to get FVFs back.  Now eBay is essentially saying a cancellation is mandatory -- or else.  The term "control freak" comes to mind.  I'm flabbergasted at this.

I'm also surprised at the last statement by Raphael above.  Last week I asked about the necessity of proving that a buyer made the "ask" for a cancellation and was told it really didn't matter as long as a seller didn't choose the "I ran out of stock" or "I sold item to another buyer" options.  The message was that eBay doesn't monitor buyer-seller communications through Messages.  Well, that is apparently not so, according to this statement -- they can (and will) use eBay Messages as proof. 

If this is in fact true, sellers should make darn certain that buyers do the asking before sending out a cancellation for any transaction, even with the reason "Other". 

I get the feeling, like many other major changes on eBay, that eBay itself will be floundering around for some time trying to figure out their own rules and get the implementation working consistently. 

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It sounds to me as if they want to make sure that a seller gets a defect if they make a mistake and that the seller can't get out of getting that defect simply by not filing for a cancellation. The reason I didn't file for a cancellation in my situation is because I was going to try to get ebay to cancel it by phone. Since the buyer bypassed my blocks to buy the item, I really couldn't seeing them agreeing to the cancellation. They should have been clear about that in the update though as there is nothing mentioned about a refund causing a defect.

Ebay can definitely read our messages but I can not imagine them checking them each time a sellers does a buyer initiated cancellation. I imagine they might check messages if a buyer did not agree to the cancellation even though the seller said that the buyer asked for the cancellation. I'm not worried about it because I can't picture a situation where I would check off that a buyer had asked for a cancellation unless they had actually asked for a cancellation.

However...I just had a thought. When you ask for a cancellation..isn't one of the choices 'buyer and seller can't agree to terms"? That is sort of an ambiguous reason..who really wants the cancellation in that situation? Perhaps they will take that choice away? Plus..I would be surprised if they keep the 'other' choice in there because it could mean anything as well. Or perhaps they will keep it there but it will require an written explanation??

[rainbow71113]

I never thought about that, I have had buyers in Russian states bypass my blocks and that would also be a defect if I cancel that transaction.., the ebay phones are going to be even more busy than they already are if we have to call to have every transaction canceled by them.

[pjcdn2005]

I haven't tried to figure out how returns work as far as defects go but it does seem as if those who are in the managed returns program have an advantage in that respect. But only U.S. sellers can be in that program.

I don't know if you have seen it but have you looked at your defect report that is not on your dashboard.

http://eshopping.promotw.com/globalsellerapp/view/us

I don't show any partial refund defects on there so I can't see a partial refund causing a problem.

[pjcdn2005]

the ebay phones are going to be even more busy than they already are if we have to call to have every transaction canceled by them.

I've been thinking the same thing. Or each time a seller receives a defect for a case that was opened by mistake or for...??  I'm not saying that phoning would always help but I'm sure that people will try to get some of those defects off of their accounts.

How would a Russia buyer bypass your blocks? Do you have it set up so that you have 'blocked buyers from countries that I don't ship to"?

[rainbow71113]

ohhh, thanks for that link, it did give me some more info, for instance a neutral that ebay removed IS still giving me a defect!! and one item that is showing is no longer in the system so I can't get any further info.  

[rainbow71113]

When I did the block for Russia I didn't specify all the regions like Ukraine, Bosnia, Serbia etc.....so even though I blocked Russia I was still getting orders from all the other regions, have now blocked the Ukraine....