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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF

Anyone have any ideas what impact this might have on the current structure as a seller?  If Paypal becomes independent of ebay, would it mean that we might lose our shipping discounts and fees might increase on payments?  Is there any chance that ebay may offer another integrated payment service in place of Paypal?  I'm just not sure at all what this might mean for sellers. I would like to see others' opinions as to whether this is good or bad or neutral in terms of selling. Thanks.

Message 2 of 27
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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF

If eBay were to "spin off" PayPal (and it's been speculated on for years) eBay would probably still be the majority shareholder or at least the single biggest shareholder.

 

I don't think eBay sellers would see any significant change. Fees on payments are very unlikely to change, if anything they might possibly go down if eBay allowed any additional payment services. Fees for selling on eBay might change because a huge portion of eBay Inc's profit come from PayPal and eBay, the marketplace, might need to make up for that.

 

In any event this is nothing more than speculation and may simply be a rumour spread by someone looking to get a bump in eBay's stock price (which they got yesterday when the story surfaced) before dumping their holdings (Carl Icahn being the primary suspect).

 

 

 

 



"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
- answering Trolls is voluntary, my policy is not to participate.
Message 3 of 27
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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF

Often, business or government loft trial balloons to gauge interest. eBay could have floated this from an "un-named source" just to see what would be said or happen.

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Message 4 of 27
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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF

"Anyone have any ideas what impact this might have on the current structure as a seller?"

 

I do not expect it to happen any time soon.  Speculation - that is all it is.

 

However, to answer your question, we have to go back fourteen years when eBay owned Billpoint, a payment service competing with PayPal.  eventually eBay purchased PayPal and wrote off Billpoint (a quarter of a billion US dollars).

 

Should eBay sell or give to its shareholders some or most of PayPal, as "resped" indicated, fees at eBay would go up to make up for whatever profit eBay Inc is not getting from PayPal, by far its fastest growing profit centre.

 

Other than that, business as usual.

 

The so-called "PayPal postage" is managed by Pitney Bowes, both in Canada and the USA.  There is no reason to believe that would change as such program is a WIN WIN WIN for everyone using it.

Message 5 of 27
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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF

Thanks everyone for their replies.

Message 6 of 27
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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF

I really don't know much at all about the inner workings of eBay/Paypal, but I thought eBay was making profit from its ownership of Paypal. 

 

I'm just wondering why they would want to spin it off it in the first place -- or does this question give credence to the rumour-mill theory?  I would think it's easier to make money off Paypal than from running eBay. 

Message 7 of 27
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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF

Doing a "spin-off" is almost always some sort of attempt to "unlock shareholder value". It generally comes in two flavours, the first being a situation like eBay where both "sides" are doing ok but it is thought that as two separate companies the total of the two stocks will be higher than if kept as a single entity. The other situation is when a company has a loser division which is a drag on the stock value of the company, dumping off the loser should make the primary company look better and give a bump to the stock price.

 

A "spin-off" is different from simply selling off a portion of your business (McCain's pizza business for a recent example) because usually a majority holding is retained by the original.

 

A classic Canadian spin-off was the BCE / Nortel situation, some people (insiders) made a ton of money on that one while retail investors caught up in the excitement eventually lost everything.

 

The first rumours of a PayPal spin-off date back to the early days of JD back in 2008/2009.



"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
- answering Trolls is voluntary, my policy is not to participate.
Message 8 of 27
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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF

Who will buy Paypal?

 

OR

 

More importantly.....  

 

Who will buy eBay?

 

OR

 

Who will buy eBay/Paypal?

 

How about Google.....

 

http://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/abblog/blog.pl?/pl/2014/5/1400091526.html

 

A Google-eBay merger....Maybe???

 

and if it did occur.....  What next?

Message 9 of 27
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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF

"Who will buy Paypal?"

 

A spin-off does not mean a sale to someone else.  It could be an arrangement similar to BCE giving its shareholders shares in Nortel fourteen years ago.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nortel

Message 10 of 27
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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF

And where is Nortel today? LOL.

 

Is eBay after the PayPal spinoff to be what Nortel is today? Non-existent with its assets sold off to other companies?

Message 11 of 27
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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF

How about an exchange of shares.

 

eBay gets Google shares.... and Google get eBay shares of equal value

 

Resulting in no... or is it ... much less... animosity between the two... 

 

Or ...  Will that create an even bigger problem?

Message 12 of 27
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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF

More important: will any of the shares pay dividends?

At the moment the only way shareholders can 'unlock' value in eBay is by selling the stock. I held a little eBay stock in the early days and made good money by selling after each stock split.

Now that I am old and careful, I only buy stocks in companies that make a profit and distribute the profit to the shareholders because: Enron.

Message 13 of 27
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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF

"Now that I am old and careful, I only buy stocks in companies that make a profit and distribute the profit to the shareholders"

 

Welcome to the club, sister!

Message 14 of 27
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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF


@femmefan1946 wrote:

More important: will any of the shares pay dividends?

At the moment the only way shareholders can 'unlock' value in eBay is by selling the stock. I held a little eBay stock in the early days and made good money by selling after each stock split.

Now that I am old and careful, I only buy stocks in companies that make a profit and distribute the profit to the shareholders because: Enron.


Which does beg the question: why hasn't eBay ever paid dividends, since it's always crowing about its increasing profits?  Too cheap to spread the good fortune around?  Maybe M. Lebel knows the answer...

Message 15 of 27
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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF

eBay does buy back its own stock....

 

 

Message 16 of 27
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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF

"why hasn't eBay ever paid dividends,"

 

Where is the money? Where are the profits kept?

 

Many large American companies doing business around the world maximize their profits in foreign lands where the tax rate is lower.  However, that prevents them from paying dividends since the money has not come back to Head Office in the USA.  To repatriate the money would require large payment of taxes to the US government.

 

Take a look at their balance sheet (as of December 2013)

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=EBAY+Balance+Sheet&annual

 

$9 billion in cash and short term investment

BUT the same

$9 billion in short/long term debt

 

One of their largest asset is "goodwill" (again $9 billion)

 

Looks good on the balance sheet but cannot be distributed as cash to shareholders.

 

What is goodwill?  In the case of eBay it represents the cost of PayPal shares they purchased over ten years ago in excess of their actual book value.  It is valuable since PayPal produces a lot of profit but... it is "paper money", not cash available for dividends.

Message 17 of 27
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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF

Thanks Pierre, makes perfect sense, especially concerning the repatriation of offshore profits.  You've quite succinctly answered a question that's been in the back of my mind for years 

 

As a former corporate/commercial paralegal and researcher, I completely understand the concept of "goodwill".  Although I must say that in many corporate purchase and sale transactions I've dealt with, goodwill comprised a significant part of the purchase price of a company, sometimes even the majority of the price, depending upon the type of business.  It is in a sense the Holy Grail that every company hopes to achieve -- a measure of potential.

 

Very interesting insight, thanks!

Message 18 of 27
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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF

I just looked at the balance sheet you posted.  Very interesting -- I've never bothered to look at them before. 

 

One thing that stood out is that there are no issued preferred shares.  I would have thought a company this large and this established would have had some preferred issuances by now.  The other figures are enlightening, too.  I should have looked at their balance sheets earlier, quite educational. 

Message 19 of 27
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EBay considering PayPal spinoff: reportF

" no issued preferred shares."

 

You find very few preferred shares in the USA as they have no tax advantage.

 

Preferred shares are issued by Canadian companies who want to raise capital but do not want to dilute the voting rights and profit participation of common shareholders.  The big advantage for many investors is that preferred shares generally pay a fixed and higher dividend as the common shares and often carry less risk. 

 

Also, dividends received preferred tax treatment.  For example, Ontarians earning less than $45000 annually would pay no tax on "eligible" dividends of Canadian corporation.  Much better than interest on term deposits from the bank which are fully taxable.

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/investment-ideas/strategy-lab/dividend-investing/you-d...

 

For a recent and comprehensive report of preferred shares issued by Canadian corporations:

 

http://www.cibcwg.com/c/document_library/get_file?uuid=823ffb68-e59e-45f0-817f-dcfc349fbdd6&groupId=...

 

 

 

 

Message 20 of 27
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