I'm at a loss here... (late delivery for an item I sent)

[lady.stark]

I've decided to create my own thread regarding a situation I'm facing, because I need some input from the community here... and maybe point me in the right direction. As mentioned in other threads, I shipped an item on Dec 5 to the US (California). Here is a summary of my conversation with the buyer (please bear with me, it is quite long). I deleted all the parts that could potentially identify the buyer. And I also deleted all the "Hi" and "Regards" to keep it shorter.

Dec 28 - Buyer wrote I have not received this item where is it?

Dec 28 - Me
Thank you for contacting me. According to tracking, it was in New York on December 14 (tracking xxxx). Since I live in xxx and you in xxxx, it has to go through the whole country to get to you. USPS says there will be delays on this item, but they don't give any reason why. However, I am confident it will arrive soon.

That being said, I will open a ticket with Canada Post to see what is going on.
Can you give me your phone number? I will need it for the ticket.

Dec 28 buyer gave phone number
Dec 28 - Me
Thank you. I opened a ticket with Canada Post. The ticket number is xxxx. They will open an investigation to see where the package is. The operator told me we should have news around January 5, 2021.
I'll keep you informed if I have any new development. Hopefully, the package will show up sooner than that. 🙂

Jan 2 - buyer asked Have you heard anything?

Jan 2 - Me
I certainly understand your frustration awaiting the parcel's arrival, delays like this are frustrating to us both! Unfortunately, with COVID-19, parcels take longer than usual to arrive, because they have to go through customs. I've seen a package arrive in Australia 42 days after shipment.

That being said, it has only been 17 business days since I shipped the parcel. Not to mention there have been many reports on the Internet on the backlog USPS is currently facing. This is one example: https://abc7chicago.com/usps-mail-delays-christmas-2020/9040030/

I did open a ticket with Canada Post. If you want to give them a call, their number is xxxxxx. If the package is really lost, they will refund and then I will be able to do the same (I did insure the package). But we have to give them time to open an investigation (they were closed many days during the last 2 weeks and they usually ask customer to wait 45 days after shipment before claiming the insurance).

So I would really appreciate it if you can wait at least a few more weeks - at least until Canada Post have closed the investagation (with PayPal, you are covered for 6 months). Let me know.
Thank you in advance for your continued patience and have a great day!

Jan 2 - Buyer
Okay. Keep me updated.

Jan 2 - Me
Yes of course. As soon as I know something, I'll let you know 🙂

Jan 7 - Buyer asked So exactly when do you think we need to call it never showing up?

Jan 7 - me
I just called Canada Post to have an update on your package. The lady was very gracious. She said they are waiting for an update from USPS. She said the insurance process cannot start before day 45 after shipment (so January 19). She said it would help if you could call them. Here is their toll free number: xxxxxx. Ticket number is xxxx.

Once the claim process starts for the insurance, they will also contact you and ask you to sign something confirming the package has not arrived. Can I have your email address so I can send any updates if I receive any?

Jan 7 - Buyer
I have had just about enough of this. Keep the money they say it is somewhere between Canada and New york. There is no way to know what you shipped. I will not rate you via ebay I just want you and your tale to diappear.

Jan 7 - Me
My tale? I don't understand what you mean? If you look on USPS.com, they say "Your package will arrive later than expected, but is still on its way. It is currently in transit to the next facility."
Everywhere on the Internet, you can read that packages are arriving way past their estimated delivery dates. Sometimes more than 2 months after shipment... just by searching "USPS backlog" on Google...
https://istheservicedown.com/problems/usps/5117472-flushing-queens-county-new-york-united-states
https://6abc.com/usps-delays-tracking-mail-united-states-postal-service/9385618/
https://www.npr.org/2021/01/03/953073956/widespread-mail-delays-as-usps-faces-unprecedented-backlog

Even the newspapers are not delivered:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/01/04/usps-delays-newspapers/
and the list goes on...
Did you call Canada Post? This is toll free... you will see I am telling the truth...What else do you want me to do?

Jan 7 - Buyer
Not interested in having further discussion regarding this purchase. I have gotten many items from other countries.

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I did not respond to that last message. I was just dumbfounded... do I even reply to something like this?

[ricarmic · Accepted solution]

It looks like there is no case right?

If there is no case that is great.

IMO Don't respond, don't do anything.

Eventually the item will arrive and all will be well. They will probably not let you know, nor contact you, for your peace of mind you might want to watch it make the rest of the journey, and of course when it arrives don't contact them at all.

If there is a case, you'll have to do things differently than above based on the rules forced by ebay on cases.

We never know what other things are going on in peoples lives that may make them extra grumpy, we are almost to the "january blues" when folks start choking on their credit card bills, making them extra grumpy, or at least in a normal year it will be interesting to see if things are different this year.

At least in this case they're not "costing" you anything because there's no case nor does it look like there will be one. They'll end up "ok" when it eventually arrives, there's even a chance they'll let you know in a more positive way...one never knows!

You will have to decide what to do with the Canada post claim, given 99.5% the package will eventually arrive it might be moot, personally I'd never open a CP one until after the buyer gets money, I've even had to refund CP before because the package arrived after I got the $$$.

I had a similar close call a couple weeks ago, whereby I realized a flaw in my "insurance plan" - if the buyer gets their $$$ back and the tracking afterward shows delivery and the buyer does not repay me, I don't think I'd have coverage in that situation which would really be a pain (the package was worth $700)

[ricarmic]

PS it is interesting, I've had 2 packages mailed on Dec 4th with the same problem to the west coast USA. I wonder if there are a few early December truckloads in the back 40 somewhere.....still waiting to be processed.....

[lady.stark]

There is no case yet (fingers crossed).

If my Jan 3 shipment is any indication (last estimated delivery date was Feb 10), this Dec 5 shipment might have had a Jan 10 estimate (or 12 because of Christmas and the New Year). That might explain why there is no case yet.

Or maybe the buyer will continue to wait and do what he wrote.

We'll see.

I'll do as suggested and just wait. Thank you.

[kawartha-ephemera]

That's quite a conversation! Seems to me you have already gone the extra mile here, most would not have made the effort to call CP. Nothing from the buyer to indicate a refund would've satisfied him or her either, sounds as if he/she just wanted their item to magically appear.

I'm with ricarmic, for your own peace of mind follow the tracking to its conclusion while not initiating any further contact with the buyer.

[femmefan1946]

This is the only bit I would call you on:

If the package is really lost, they will refund and then I will be able to do the same (I did insure the package).

You are responsible to the buyer, and Canada Post is responsible to you.

This means that whether or not you open an insurance claim and whether or not Canada Post reimburses you, you would still owe the customer for the undelivered parcel.

At the moment, the buyer has not opened a Dispute with eBay/Paypal/ credit card and is grumpy but waiting.

If the buyer does open a Dispute, while you should immediately respond with the tracking number (again), be prepared to lose the Dispute and to refund the buyer.

You don't wait for your insurance claim.

If you do refund and the parcel is delivered later, you have no recourse through eBay or the other two.

But.

You can send a polite note to the (probably still disgruntled) buyer telling them you have noticed the delivery , making some happy noises, and including an Invoice from Paypal which will allow them to repay the refund. They might even pay it, but don't count on that.

Best wishes on the transaction and for a happy , healthy, and prosperous New Year.

[travis7s]

I have a similar buyer in the US who ordered on Dec 18 (economy shipping) and started complaining on Dec 24. Its worse for me because I don't even have tracking because its Small Packet and they are mad because they have to wait until Feb to file a claim and that "they've ordered things from Malaysia that have come faster"

[femmefan1946]

Sometimes USPS picks up the Small Packet invoice number and uses it as a tracking number.

There are a few posts about that, but I track so rarely that I didn't really pay attention.

If you can find that number and USPS has picked it up, you can send it to your buyer after his next complaint.

I'm sure you know he can also Dispute through Paypal for 180 days from Payment? Don't mention it to the customer.

Fingers crossed.

[retrocorp.inc]

I had a buyer in California order an item from me on Dec. 4 and inquire how long it would take to arrive. I immediately suspected this buyer wanted the item for Christmas. I advised her the chances of arrival before Christmas were negligible and shipped the order. Sure enough, on Dec. 24 she sends a text saying it hasn’t arrived, what does the package look like? Then she immediately requests a refund even though the delivery date is January 8. Knowing this was going to be a problem buyer I just refunded the order in full no questions asked. 

Then yesterday she leaves a negative feedback (my 2nd in 20 years) saying she was refunded but it was suspicious her item never arrived. She used the term “Fishy". Sort of like saying you’re a thief but not really.  I include links to the USPS and Canada Post site page with delivery delay updates in emails to buyers when I ship their items but it does not seem to matter. Buyers have become accustomed to Prime delivery and now expect rush service from Canada Post and USPS at economy prices, even during a pandemic. 

I’ve had at least five orders go missing in Dec. and I refunded every one in full eating the costs for postage and merchandise. It's the cost of doing business and you have to factor it into your business model. The field is slanted to the buyer (as it should be) and recourse for the seller is extremely limited. I agree, there’s not much you can reply. The best is not to reply at all, wait and hope.

[femmefan1946]

Personally, I would have waited for January 8 in case it did arrive, but I am old and cranky.

You told her and she didn't listen.

She could still leave a neg, but if you were refunding after a Dispute, it's possible that it could be removed.

Hmm-- You might try leaving a Response,which are usually a Bad Idea but, with the tracking number in the Response.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@retrocorp.inc wrote:

I had a buyer in California order an item from me on Dec. 4 and inquire how long it would take to arrive. I immediately suspected this buyer wanted the item for Christmas. I advised her the chances of arrival before Christmas were negligible and shipped the order. Sure enough, on Dec. 24 she sends a text saying it hasn’t arrived, what does the package look like? Then she immediately requests a refund even though the delivery date is January 8. Knowing this was going to be a problem buyer I just refunded the order in full no questions asked. 

Then yesterday she leaves a negative feedback (my 2nd in 20 years) saying she was refunded but it was suspicious her item never arrived. She used the term “Fishy". Sort of like saying you’re a thief but not really.  I include links to the USPS and Canada Post site page with delivery delay updates in emails to buyers when I ship their items but it does not seem to matter. Buyers have become accustomed to Prime delivery and now expect rush service from Canada Post and USPS at economy prices, even during a pandemic. 

I’ve had at least five orders go missing in Dec. and I refunded every one in full eating the costs for postage and merchandise. It's the cost of doing business and you have to factor it into your business model. The field is slanted to the buyer (as it should be) and recourse for the seller is extremely limited. I agree, there’s not much you can reply. The best is not to reply at all, wait and hope.

---

I had an order for the USA with tracking arrive on the suggested last day for delivery. The buyer flagged it as late. In speaking to eBay customer service they said the system would catch up with this situation "eventually" but passed it on to the specific department. The defect was removed approximately 24 to 48 hours later. They did admit that the notation "Transactions that weren't shipped on time:" is poorly worded. It should be "Did not arrive on time." It is also very possible in many cases buyers are not correctly counting working days. Countries and postal systems definition of that varies.

-Lotz

PS. I have an order to ship to Australia. Options included with listing are Small Packet International Air And International Tracked. Dot Ca shows the 2 options correctly. Dot com shows 1 option. omitting International Tracked. In checking ebay dot com dot au it displays 2   options for delivery but with a  6.00 approx. CAD + difference for both services. International ebay websites also omit customs as a sidenote for shipments coming from Canada.

[lady.stark]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

This is the only bit I would call you on:

If the package is really lost, they will refund and then I will be able to do the same (I did insure the package).

You are responsible to the buyer, and Canada Post is responsible to you.

This means that whether or not you open an insurance claim and whether or not Canada Post reimburses you, you would still owe the customer for the undelivered parcel.

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Although I understand what you mean, when I mentioned the insurance to the buyer, I was hoping that it would put their mind at ease. But maybe my wording was not very good.

Happy New Year to you too and everyone who responded I really appreciate all the help and input.

[retrocorp.inc]

Update: eBay removed the negative immediately. I contacted them since I objected to her use of the term "Fishy" in the feedback. But the CS rep seemed to be of the opinion since she was refunded in full on the same day as her opening the dispute, her negative was unjustified. I'm also thinking eBay is probably handling many negatives such as this and they seem to be on the side of the seller where refunds are issued? (Just a guess).

I agreed the buyer was justified to be unhappy her item never arrived, but to accuse a seller of 20 years with a spotless record was just beyond the pale. The buyer made a point of contacting me when she posted the negative, but wisely I never responded. I'm glad eBay agreed but I sense many more negatives coming with all postal systems being completely overwhelmed at the moment and buyers used to Prime delivery speed.

[priya-9537]

you can contact ebay.

[lady.stark]

A little update to my Dec 5 late package... it finally started moving again on Jan 13 (almost one month after stopping in NY) and I immediately contacted the buyer to inform him of the good news. Buyer replied back with an apology on his previous words and was very polite this time compared to other times.

We were a bit afraid that it would arrive damaged though. The package was finally delivered yesterday, and buyer immediately left positive feedback. So I assume everything is OK, because I did not hear back except for the feedback that was given.

Thank you all for your input and messages.