eBay

station41 · ‎07-21-2020

Hello,

I'm a 20years+ Ebay who buys and sells mostly sports cards. I have 2600+ positive transactions, 100% positive feedback. A couple months ago I sold a card to a USA buyer for $270 cdn (250 +20 shipping).

The card had a flaw that brought down the condition. I described this very well in the listing. Shortly after receiving the card the buyer claimed that it had undescribed damage and wanted to return it. He sent 2 pictures, 1 of a scratch on the card case, and another of 2 photo/print dots on the card.

The case was brand new, I don't know how it got scratched, it's basically a part of the packaging anyways, not the actual card. The print dots are a characteristic of the card, they are no different than letters on the players jersey or the lettering on the front. All copies of this card have them. There is nothing i can do about it and I have seen perfect copies of this card with these photo/print spots.

I had indicated no returns on the card but to be a good Ebayer I accepted to take the card back.

Ebay, the buyer and I established that I could not send a return mailing label as I live in Canada and the buyer is in the USA. They suggested I send money to cover the return shipping. The buyer asked for $20USA and I sent it immediately. He then indicated that the return shipping would be $51USA.

At first I responded that the price was too much. It's almost $75 canadian to have a card returned. I bought a $1400 card from the USA not long ago and it was less than $20USA to have shipped. I asked him to work with me and check the other options. He stuck to his price.

I contacted eBay and they agreed it seemed like a lot of money to ship the card. They asked me work with the buyer and see what we could figure out. I sent the buyer a nice email and said look, whatever you want I'll do. I offered the $51 for shipping or as a credit to the purchase. Please advise me how to proceed. I just wanted this to be over as it was very time consuming.

Then the buyer decided to stop communicating with me. I couldn't believe it!

I contacted ebay several times through chat box, emails, and phone calls. Every time I was thanked and assured that I was doing the right thing. If the buyer wasn't communicating well I did my part and he had to send the card back to get a refund.

**I should note that every time I contacted ebay, it was like the first time over and over again. It was like they didn't read the case files. Then when the phone reps read the files, they were very reassuring to me!!!!

Wednesday July 8, I received an email from eBay that the buyer had closed the return and asked them to step in. I was given 4 days to provide a shipping label. Really???? We've been through this on day 1 !!!!!!

I called ebay and spoke to a nice rep that reviewed the file and assured me that a decision would be made the next day and it looked like it would be in my favor. The case would be closed.

I didn't hear back on a decision. I emailed ebay and received a response that I would have to send the buyer a label and thanks for being such a great ebayer. REALLY? Back to day 1? REALLY? What kind of service is that? I felt discouraged and totally disrespected.

I eventually received an email from eBay saying I lost the case and my account was being charged $270. I called and explained the situation to a rep. How can a refund be processed when the buyer was ignoring me? I didn't get my $250 card returned? How can you give a refund without returning my item? What about all the advice ebay gave me that I was doing the right thing?? Never was I told that I made any mistakes, over and over I was told I'm doing the right thing!!

It was referred to an appeal and within a day I received and email that stated...... "

we determined the original decision was correct.

You won't receive a refund for this case

I then chat boxed ebay customer service again. Explained myself again. I want my item back and feel ebay should call me to explain the decision and what I did wrong. I only followed what I was told by ebay and now you are going against everything that I was told.

He indicated I would hear back from appeals within 24-48 hours. That was last Thursday and they have not responded.

Does anyone know how to actually contact an Ebay customer service manager. I have all the documenting emails, chat logs and phone calls. I just want someone to look at this that has some authority. I cannot afford to be out over $500 and could use some help.

Thanks!

ericsells75 · ‎07-21-2020

I don't have any good answers for you, but I wanted to commiserate with you on the contacting eBay issues you've had. I have a long history in customer support and I am absolutely baffled by how eBay is running things. I agree with you completely that every time you contact them you have to start all over with each new person.

Anyone with even a bit of competence could improve their support process 10 fold in just a few months but it seems to not be a priority for them. This combined with the shocking bugs that get randomly introduced and weeks to fix have lead me to believe in my short time that eBay is likely to be a hobby and not legitimate sales career for me.

Not helpful to your actual issue but wanted you to know your not alone in your frustration!

Good Luck

snoopwiz · ‎07-21-2020

Give eBay for Business on Facebook a try. I have heard good things about them from time to time. Fairly quick responses. It can't hurt. Let us know please.

station41 · ‎07-21-2020

Thanks for the response!

station41 · ‎07-21-2020

Thanks for the advice. I'll have to try through my wife's account as I don't use facebook.

Does Ebay have anyone who manages these posting boards?

sylviebee · ‎07-21-2020

I wouldn't give up just yet. A buyer should not have the right to request some random amount for return shipping and this might just be the "in" you need for the appeal.

$50 to ship a card with tracking is absurd. I would keep calling eBay until you get someone who understands that the reason you didn't send the cash for return shipping right away was because the buyer was clearly asking you to send much more for the shipping label than the actual cost and this is surely a form of extortion.

Also, in case this happens again note that there are ways to send return shipping labels and I believe Shippo has that service.

Keep calling. I know it's hard to get someone on the line who can see beyond the rote replies they have to choose from but those CSRs do exist. I don't think eBay would turn a blind eye to the fact that someone was using their system in an attempt to extort $30- $40 from you.

mmmcross · ‎07-21-2020

I agree, don't give up. The last time I had a big dispute over a large amount it took MONTHS and countless calls, but eventually you can get through to a CSR or supervisor who is able to resolve the situation properly.

pjcdn2005 · ‎07-21-2020

eBay customer service tends to know very little about the postage system in the US and even less in Canada so it's usually best to come to the boards here before a situation goes this far. You can certainly try to get a different result but since ebay can't take the money back from the buyer, they would have to give you a courtesy refund. However, since you did originally send the buyer enough money to return the card, they should not have refunded the buyer without a return. But since they probably didn't have proof that you did send 'enough' that's probably why they did rule in his favour. Of course..once a buyer asks ebay to step in, ebay almost always rules in their favour.

First class international from the US for one card would be less than $12 and it does have delivery confirmation to Canada. For the future...You can always go to USPS.com to figure out a cost from the US. If you sign up for Canada Posts small business number you can also register to use Shippo who would have allowed you to buy a USPS label which could be sent to the buyer via email as a PDF.

Just a note...you aren't over $500 out..you are out the cost of the card,original shipping plus any money you sent the buyer for return shipping. You would never have had both the money and the card so you're just out one or the other. I realize that isn't a whole lot of comfort but it is a better way to look at it. 🙂

There is an ebay rep who looks at the boards however he isn't a customer service rep so doesn't deal with individual cases. He may be able to guide you on what to do next so I'll page him. tyler@ebay

mmmcross · ‎07-21-2020

Also a very good suggestion. When I was at my wit's end with an issue a few years ago, a rep on this board was a lifesaver in intervening on my behalf.

station41 · ‎07-21-2020

Thanks for the response, I appreciate you're insight. I didn't know about shippo until now, live and learn. The phone reps didn't provide this information to either one of us?

You're right..... I'm out the card which is $250 but I also have a $270 negative balance in my paypal account which I wasn't expecting. I believe the buyer knew what he was doing the whole time, he just had to wait it out. Played me to perfection which stings.

I think ebay should issue a courtesy refund as I followed their advice through the whole process. I don't understand how they can provide poor advice and not make this right when the calls were recorded, the e-messages are all there in my inbox, and there are chat transcripts.

I feel like fool for wasting so much time and effort on this and got screwed in the end anyways.

hlmacdon · ‎07-21-2020

Sorry to hear of the problems, anecdotally I hear about a lot of similar situations involving returns where the customer service reps give a seller guidance then they follow that guidance and end up out money, product, or both. For any future situations where they have given you guidance ask the rep to document it and give you a SR case reference number. This ensures they actually document what they tell you on the call and may give you more room to work with on an appeal. If eBay's provided guidance leaves you out of pocket it should be their responsibility to credit the seller.

The buyer in this case was likely insisting on using priority mail to ensure tracking for the return and may not have been aware of the e-delcon delivery confirmation option for first class package international. That option is not available at the retail level when purchasing postage at the post office. Normally should normally be available via their click-n-ship web based shipping too (as well as via other electronic postage providers), but it currently says the service is not available and directs customers to the retail post offices, which is not helpful.

It would be nice to see ebay work on an implementation for this on their side via their USPS account for US to Canada returns as the issue comes up often, many buyers are unaware of e-delcon and typically have access to online postage providers as they are not typically sellers, much less ones with experience shipping internationally.

femmefan1946 · ‎07-21-2020

Ebay, the buyer and I established that I could not send a return mailing label as I live in Canada and the buyer is in the USA.

Actually, you can buy USPS shipping labels through Shippo.

He then indicated that the return shipping would be $51USA.

https://postcalc.usps.com/?country=10440

Without knowing dimensions, weight and place of origin, I can only guess that he was looking at the Priority International rate that shows up first on the USPS site.
The First Class Package International that shows at the bottom of the list when Size and Shape is chosen would be Confirmed Delivery and much cheaper.

Customer Service is poorly trained on international transactions.

station41 · ‎07-21-2020

Thanks for the responses.

I'm hoping that tyler@ebay

responds to this......

I'm not letting it go without a proper response

thanks again for all the support!

travis7s · ‎07-22-2020

@femmefan1946 wrote:

Actually, you can buy USPS shipping labels through Shippo.

I've seen this posted many times but has anybody actually tried doing it? I have multiple times and never got it to work, just get errors that say rates for that carrier are not available.

brettjet38 · ‎07-22-2020

...another reason why I have a Shopify account the buyer-centric eBay Money Back Guarantee.

tyler@ebay · ‎07-22-2020

Thanks for the tag @pjcdn2005 and apologies for the delay in my reply - I wanted to do some research on this which took some time.

In general, in a situation where a buyer has requested a return with a not as described reason we'd expect the seller to accept it and provide a means of return (a shipping label, funds for the shipping label, etc). Where an eBay generated label cannot be issued, a seller can provide one of their own via a service like Shippo, or by sending funds to the buyer for the return shipping (stipulating the service it's to be used for).

In this particular case - where we can't provide the buyer a label - we would ask a seller to provide a means of return by a certain date or we would issue a full refund and not require the return of the item (typically 4 business days).

@station41 - this is an incredibly frustrating situation, I'm sorry to hear that the buyer stopped communicating. Something to bear in mind is that you control the method of return. You don't need a buyer's approval for a particular shipping method. As long as we can see that you have stipulated a return method, and provided funds for that method, you would not have this happen in the future.

Should you receive a return request from a US buyer in the future you can consider using a return label via Shippo (the simplest way), or by doing some research on the cost of return shipping from them to you. Then send that in the return (something like, "I've researched and the cost of return shipping will be X. I have sent you funds in that amount, Transaction ID XX. Please send back to my address using Y service, with Z additional options). Just remember that tracking/delivery confirmation would be important to include!

If you receive a message in the future that advises you to arrange shipping within a certain amount of time or a full refund will be issued, please do so.

You are more than welcome to contact CS to have them review the request in detail, but at a cursory level, it doesn't appear that there is much recourse. Thanks!

Tyler,

station41 · ‎07-22-2020

tyler@ebay

Thanks for taking the time to have a look at my post. I believe you missed my point though.....

I contacted Ebay numerous times regarding this situation. If I had of know or if the ebay reps who spoke to me and the buyer had of known that you can send a label through shippo…… well I would have sent the label.

I did not drag my feet in any way, I was on top of this!

I followed the advice from the staff of ebay on how to deal with this and they misinformed me!!

I did not get my property back because the buyer stopped communicating!!!

How do you deal with a situation when the buyer won't respond? When I explained to ebay, they advised me, don't worry, it will be ok, no refund will be given if you don't get your item back, we can see all the effort you have made, and if he doesn't respond well it will close in 35 days, etc etc etc

Would you have handled the situation any differently if you were in my shoes? It was a unique situation and I was relying on ebay for support...… and the service reps..... every single one of them passed the buck...…. didn't give a darn..... lets just cut and paste an answer..... let's just read off a scripted response. But 2 of them flat out lied to me; the guy who said the decision would be made and they'd get back to me (suggesting it would be in my favour) and the chat rep who said I'd hear back within 48 hours.

I really don't know who has the poorer ethics..... the buyer who ripped me off or eBay's customer service.

sylviebee · ‎07-22-2020

@travis7s wrote:
@femmefan1946 wrote:

Actually, you can buy USPS shipping labels through Shippo.

I've seen this posted many times but has anybody actually tried doing it? I have multiple times and never got it to work, just get errors that say rates for that carrier are not available.

Yes, it works. It's been a while since I've done it and I can no longer recall the exact process but it did require that I complete some forms before being allowed to do so.

Email or call Shippo and they'll tell you how to do it and/or if I can find the information again I'll post it here.

station41 · ‎07-22-2020

Thanks for the response...… If they only had of advised me properly on this process to begin with!

Who is at the helm in their customer service department? You should create a short memo and send it to eBay's customer service reps so they are aware and can start advising members of this process!

tyler@ebay · ‎07-22-2020

@station41 wrote:

tyler@ebay

Thanks for taking the time to have a look at my post. I believe you missed my point though.....

I contacted Ebay numerous times regarding this situation. If I had of know or if the ebay reps who spoke to me and the buyer had of known that you can send a label through shippo…… well I would have sent the label.

I did not drag my feet in any way, I was on top of this!

I followed the advice from the staff of ebay on how to deal with this and they misinformed me!!

I did not get my property back because the buyer stopped communicating!!!

How do you deal with a situation when the buyer won't respond? When I explained to ebay, they advised me, don't worry, it will be ok, no refund will be given if you don't get your item back, we can see all the effort you have made, and if he doesn't respond well it will close in 35 days, etc etc etc

Would you have handled the situation any differently if you were in my shoes? It was a unique situation and I was relying on ebay for support...… and the service reps..... every single one of them passed the buck...…. didn't give a darn..... lets just cut and paste an answer..... let's just read off a scripted response. But 2 of them flat out lied to me; the guy who said the decision would be made and they'd get back to me (suggesting it would be in my favour) and the chat rep who said I'd hear back within 48 hours.

I really don't know who has the poorer ethics..... the buyer who ripped me off or eBay's customer service.

@station41 - I'm not able to speak to the specifics of what was and was not told to you - for a thorough review of the case and any options available you'd need to contact CS.

My hope is that in giving you a clearer outline of the process we follow, and an outline of your options to provide, you can prevent something like this from happening again.

I will have your contacts to CS reviewed for appropriate action/coaching, as we should be giving you correct information and following up as we promise to.

Tyler,