Promoted Item Express, test number 2!

[ricarmic]

I've got a batch of country related auction items and have chosen to use this again to see if it brings folks "to the group" so to speak.

I've put it on the largest of the items on .COM, as before it cost $1.99 US before taxes.

7 day auctions for them all, generally they have a decent chance of selling via auction, I'm interested to see if promoting one makes more of them sell. Time will tell.

As I did before I'll document things as it progresses.

[ricarmic]

Things that make you go hmmm.

I've been watching the 5 items running of similar nature. 4 have very similar titles, one has a bit different title, which is apparently much better.

Interestingly the differently worded title (not promoted) is smoking the others including the promoted item. So a learning for me there, I'm going to convert the "regular" wordings of the others to match the first one going forward (these are regular running OOAK items, replaced as sold out), already a useful experiment! A valuable reminder of how important title wordings can be in terms of views.

So for recordkeeping as of now in order of listing:

21 views #1 watchers 1 (differently worded)

7   views #2

6 views #3

5 views #4

16 views #5 watchers 1 (the largest and promoted one).

Past remembrances are that the first listed one tends to have a bit higher views, but if you recall from the first experiment that was not the case.

I think it is most useful going forward to only compare #2 through 5 as they are closely worded enough to be comparable, and as before, the promoted one is running at least double views.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@ricarmic wrote:

Things that make you go hmmm.

I've been watching the 5 items running of similar nature. 4 have very similar titles, one has a bit different title, which is apparently much better.

Interestingly the differently worded title (not promoted) is smoking the others including the promoted item. So a learning for me there, I'm going to convert the "regular" wordings of the others to match the first one going forward (these are regular running OOAK items, replaced as sold out), already a useful experiment! A valuable reminder of how important title wordings can be in terms of views.

So for recordkeeping as of now in order of listing:

21 views #1 watchers 1 (differently worded)

7   views #2

6 views #3

5 views #4

16 views #5 watchers 1 (the largest and promoted one).

Past remembrances are that the first listed one tends to have a bit higher views, but if you recall from the first experiment that was not the case.

I think it is most useful going forward to only compare #2 through 5 as they are closely worded enough to be comparable, and as before, the promoted one is running at least double views.

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I haven't done a deep dive on the in's and out's of the program. Think it will become a case of large sellers being able to afford and the smallers not. Have you discovered what happens in cases of INR's or NAD's? Do the associated promotion fees get refunded back to seller or are lost and never to be seen from again?

-Lotz

[ricarmic]

Hi @lotzofuniquegoodies 

Regarding the INR and NAD because they're pretty clear it is an upfront cost, I personally wouldn't expect to get it refunded in an INR or NAD, I would be happy (and surprised) if it was but I don't think it would be.

I think use of this will be moreso based on how big ones's items value/margins are. In the two main categories I'm listing in it is either $1.99 US on .COM or $3.99 or $4.99 on .CA. An item worth $10 isn't going to justify the cost, a $50 item isn't either if ones COGS (cost of goods sold) is high.

Based on results so far, it looks like they're generating about twice as many or more views, so as a seller one would have to decide if doubling the views and theoretical results would make it worthwhile.

So far my thinking is that I would most use this for items that are likely to have signficant possibility of bidding/selling without it and adding it would increase the level of bidding/selling by enough to warrant the extra cost, but I'll know more after some more experiments.

[ricarmic]

Here are the bit more than half way done stats:

So for recordkeeping as of now in order of listing:

32 views #1 watchers ZERO now (differently worded)    (21 before)

7   views #2 (7 before)

7 views #3 (6 before)

8 views #4 (5 before)

27 views #5 watchers 2 (the largest and promoted one) (16 before).

So clearly my master plan of using the promoted item to bring viewers to the other items isn't working, the non promoted similarly worded items are not getting hardly any views (which is normal mid auction) whilst the promoted one is.

The better worded one is still growing its viewership, not sure what that means in the larger picture.

None have bids, that is not unusual either, normally these sell at the start price in the final seconds.

[kawartha-ephemera]

Wow, the promoted one is doing well with views and watchers. Would you say the others are performing as usual, or are those view and watcher numbers lower than expected?

[ricarmic]

@kawartha-ephemera 

2,3,4 are behaving normally, their counts will likely go up this weekend, and will jump in the last day, but yes there is a very marked increase in the promoted item views, and it is abnormal for it to have a couple watchers, they rarely do.

Having said that though, based on my stats, technically it is cheaper and better to pick the right words in your title because the first one listed is bettering the promoted one. There is a caveat to that, it is my belief that when I run batches like this of relatively similar items, the first one listed often will pull more views than the others, however a further caveat to that, that didn't appear to be the case for experimental round 1. (So what does one really know!!!).

In my experiements so far, I haven't achieved my ultimate goals of:

-getting multiple bids or higher than usual sell rate

-getting improved views for other related items

(another caveat again, I haven't so far picked something that traditionally gets lots of bids. This weeks experiment was to see if I could pull more views for non-promoted items, and that appears so far to be pretty clearly NOT working as I'd hoped).

[kawartha-ephemera]

@ricarmic
Could it be you're not seeing cross over views because these are "bulk" type of items? Maybe if the items auctioned were individual items like blocks of 4 or rare singles, and all from the same country it would make a difference?

[ricarmic]

@kawartha-ephemera  Actually the reverse is more likely the case, these are all the same country(s) generally someone will clean them all up at the same time, this particular country tends to go outside Canada so folks bulk them together. These are "searcher" lots so folks will usually buy more than one at a time (that's why I put them up at the same time). These 5 particular lots sold to two buyers last time around, 3 to one 2 to another.....I have an unusual customer base as compared to the "average" stamp seller.

The reason I want views is someone sees a particular item or batch of items they really want in one of them and they're prepared to bid against someone else to get the lot/them. Generally these never go above the start bid, but the odd time they'll go dramatically higher. Sometimes all of them sell, sometimes none of them sell and get converted to BINs (at the same price which all the regulars know). 

[kawartha-ephemera]

Interesting market, never would have guessed buyers would buy multiples of those. The world of stamps has always mystified me, I think that's why I keep putting off listing a small cache of stamps and covers I've accumulated over the years.

[intimewithmusic]

My Observations: 

*Products that have a lot of active comps benefit only if the comps aren't promoted or are at a lower rate. EG:*I have a valuable photo book.  although it's the only one for sale on our planet it's title is too similar to other books. It's called "memories from the mountain". All of those key words are very very common. I've been battling for months to get it visible. A popular book by Dolly Parton called "Smoky Mountain Memories" buries me every time as well as so many others.    Chances are, if your item has common key words, promoting it will only help if you raise the percentage above that of the others. 

*For most things I found 1.3% put me above most promoters.  

*I got my book to where it needed to be by making two changes. 1. I moved the name of the book to the middle of the title and put the author's name (Dee Lippingwell) at the beginning. It cut the key words out of the rest of the masses. If someone is looking for my book they will search the photographer anyway. Her name is unique. The book's name is insignificant.  I was still buried by about 20 other items. 2.  I raised the promotion to 3%. 

   The combination worked. 

  I think strategic use of promoted listing is a good tool for specific problematic items.  

[ricarmic]

Just over a day to go, some interesting developments so I'm doing an interim update:

36 views #1 , 0 watchers 0 bids (differently worded)    (32 views before)

8   views #2, 0 watchers 0 bids (7 views before)

21  views #3 1 watcher 1 bid (7 views before)

9   views #4 1 watcher 0 bids (8 views before)

33 views #5 3 watchers 0 bids (the largest and promoted one) (27 views before).

I think that it is pretty clear that bids increase visibility, look at the jump in #3 in one day since it got a bid!

[ricarmic]

Final wrap up:

(Close to closing time)

48 views #1 , 0 watchers 0 bids (differently worded)    (36 views before)

13   views #2, 0 watchers 0 bids (8 views before)

29  views #3 1 watcher 1 bid (21 views before)

13   views #4 1 watcher 0 bids (9 views before)

42 views #5 4 watchers 0 bids (the largest and promoted one) (33 views before).

The only one that sold was #3.

From a normal sales rate perspective this sell rate of 1 is normal. if I recall ALL of these sold via BINs before. 

Generally my regulars know I relist unsold auctions for the same price so they wait (in order to avoid having to fight with someone else).

My goal of pulling more views to other items via promoted did not work so good learning there.

My goal of increasing sell rate did not work, useful learning there.

Collateral learning that one title much outperforms the others, will of course incorporate that (it was a free learning too!).

Clearly the promotion did in this case bring about 300% more views against an item with no bids.

Getting a bid though definitely brings more views. (for no cost).

So from a mathematical perspective the $$ spent didn't bring any value to the situation aside from learnings.

Next experiment will be with something more likely to end up with bids, not sure when that will happen depends when I come across something I think fits. Stay tuned!!

[kawartha-ephemera]

Gee wiz ... we were hoping for fireworks galore!
I've a stamp question for you. I noticed a few of your main gallery images have / had a weird blue tint to them, one listing mentioned something about a bar something or other. What sort of lighting were you using that revealed those hidden bars in the stamp and why are they there at all?

[ricarmic]

The blue tint are stamps photographed under ultraviolet light, that is what the postal sorting machines use to tell if there is a stamp on the letter (modern stamps have tagging on them that glows under UV light).

For the pictures I use one like the stores use to check currency (or used to use in the pre plastic days) as money also has phosphorescent ink in it too (or it did before current bills, I can't remember if current bills have it or not).

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@ricarmic wrote:

Final wrap up:

(Close to closing time)

48 views #1 , 0 watchers 0 bids (differently worded)    (36 views before)

13   views #2, 0 watchers 0 bids (8 views before)

29  views #3 1 watcher 1 bid (21 views before)

13   views #4 1 watcher 0 bids (9 views before)

42 views #5 4 watchers 0 bids (the largest and promoted one) (33 views before).

The only one that sold was #3.

From a normal sales rate perspective this sell rate of 1 is normal. if I recall ALL of these sold via BINs before. 

Generally my regulars know I relist unsold auctions for the same price so they wait (in order to avoid having to fight with someone else).

My goal of pulling more views to other items via promoted did not work so good learning there.

My goal of increasing sell rate did not work, useful learning there.

Collateral learning that one title much outperforms the others, will of course incorporate that (it was a free learning too!).

Clearly the promotion did in this case bring about 300% more views against an item with no bids.

Getting a bid though definitely brings more views. (for no cost).

So from a mathematical perspective the $$ spent didn't bring any value to the situation aside from learnings.

Next experiment will be with something more likely to end up with bids, not sure when that will happen depends when I come across something I think fits. Stay tuned!!

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In speaking with CS the other day it was implied the "best" way to get traffic was to promote your listings using the available eBay tools(Currently just under half of my 1200+ listings are promoted).

And I was just getting used to them reminding/thanking (at nauseum) for being a member on eBay for 18 years. Sadly, the new normal.

Now that a few more weeks has gone by, would you say your recent testing of Promoted Item Express has been a successful or not so much experience?

-Lotz

[ricarmic]

Hi @lotzofuniquegoodies 

I ran another unpublished test that ended yesterday and the results were the same as the others, there were more views but overall I don't think it made a huge difference. 

That latest was similar to the others I did publish so a similar result isn't surprising.

I still have to find the right ones to test the theory that it will work better for actively bidded items.

So far I think the coles notes version is that I haven't found the right way to use them yet for the kind of stuff I sell, but I'm far from done experimenting. 

When the time comes that I use it on .CA or for an expcted actively bidded item I'll likely document it on the boards again....

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@ricarmic wrote:

Hi @lotzofuniquegoodies 

I ran another unpublished test that ended yesterday and the results were the same as the others, there were more views but overall I don't think it made a huge difference. 

That latest was similar to the others I did publish so a similar result isn't surprising.

I still have to find the right ones to test the theory that it will work better for actively bidded items.

So far I think the coles notes version is that I haven't found the right way to use them yet for the kind of stuff I sell, but I'm far from done experimenting. 

When the time comes that I use it on .CA or for an expcted actively bidded item I'll likely document it on the boards again....

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My main concern with the release of features like these, is the volume of sellers who use. Unfortunately, if everyone were to use, everyone would not able to be on top for search results.  Alternately, those who can afford will squeeze out those who cannot.

Best comparison I can think of is, whoever can afford the best equipment in a sport ...wins.

-Lotz

[ricarmic]

@lotzofuniquegoodies yes but this is how it has always been.....in a competitive marketplace.

In the days "before the internet" it was all I could do to save up for one full page ad in a stamp related newspaper, costing $2,000 ish..... no way was I able to compete against the "big guys" who had full page ads every issue.... in all selling venues, there are costs of promotion.

Comparatively speaking, that $2,000 ad in a 1% promoted items ebay scenario means $200,000 in sales - boy I wish I had that kind of return on a printed ad!

In all the online venues I sell, there are different ways one can distinguish oneself and in all of them in one way or another it costs money.....

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

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@ricarmic wrote:

@lotzofuniquegoodies yes but this is how it has always been.....in a competitive marketplace.

In the days "before the internet" it was all I could do to save up for one full page ad in a stamp related newspaper, costing $2,000 ish..... no way was I able to compete against the "big guys" who had full page ads every issue.... in all selling venues, there are costs of promotion.

Comparatively speaking, that $2,000 ad in a 1% promoted items ebay scenario means $200,000 in sales - boy I wish I had that kind of return on a printed ad!

In all the online venues I sell, there are different ways one can distinguish oneself and in all of them in one way or another it costs money.....

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Very similar to searching for your Model T(Black) when you parked it at the Mall of America or W Edm. Boy could use a clicker right now!!  😉 I know it's here somewhere!!

-Lotz