Read the Fine Print!

[rose-dee]

I just went through the 2014 Spring Seller Update line by line, and would encourage all sellers who are serious about their status on EBay to do the same.  EBay is tightening up their expectations of sellers, and there are some critical points in the "fine print". 

I've put the link here for easy reference, but I'd also say that the Seller Checklist (at the top left on the page) is a good thing to keep handy, to avoid suddenly finding yourself with a bunch of defects as of Aug. 20th:

http://pages.ebay.ca/sellerinformation/news/springupdate2014/sellerstandards.html

Items that particularly caught my attention: 

1)  Don't initiate a cancellation process if the buyer hasn't specifically requested it -- you'll get a defect.

2)  Neutral FB will now count as a defect;

3)  Don't bother to ask a buyer to revise negative or neutral FB anymore -- if you do, the transaction will count as a defect;

4)  Open cases will be counted as defects, but only if the buyer chooses INR or INAD in the resolution centre or through "Contact Seller".  This may be important, because a lot of sellers have been complaining that "Contact Seller" leads buyers to open cases when they really didn't intend to.  We'll see how that works out in practice.

5)  Sellers get a bit of leeway on Shipping Time DSRs (has to be a rating of 1 to count as a defect), but the "Item as Described" DSR will be counted more strictly -- a "3" will be enough to count as a defect (ouch).  So good photos and accurate descriptions will be more critical than ever.

Some positive news:  eBay has given sellers a bit of a gift on the "Shipping Cost" and "Communications" DSRs.  These will still be able to be rated by buyers, but won't count toward defects (i.e. for seller information only).  All I can say about that is: Finally!

Defects will be rated more stringently for Global TRS and US TRS, although the other programme requirements haven't been changed.  US TRS+ is another story: package tracking and the new "Extended holiday return" policy will make that designation even more difficult for Canadians to achieve. 

All in all, I imagine that sellers who aren't up to speed on the new defect rules are going to find themselves with a not-so-pleasant surprise on their dashboards come August 20th.  EBay obviously wants all its sellers to behave like professionals, and consistently.  Toughen up everybody!

[femmefan1946]

to include a little note with the parcel to the same effect, perhaps with your personal email address,  -- rose-dee

Personally, I like this better than the email. It's a little more work for a sketchey but lazy buyer to open the computer and start a fuss. And the personal email is definitely a plus.

Setting alarm clock for the Wednesday Board.

[rose-dee]

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@ricarmic wrote:

Hi Rose, I had a question regarding this:

1)  Don't initiate a cancellation process if the buyer hasn't specifically requested it -- you'll get a defect.  

How does the buyer request the cancellation request, as in how does eBay know they asked for it??

I ask because last night a regular customer by accident purchased two of an item and asked me in an ebay (must have been "other") message to cancel one. I initiated the cancellation request and selected the buyer purchased by mistake or changed their mind option, which is really the only one I've ever selected in the past anyway.

So my question is did I do this right, or did I give myself a defect?

(If I didn't do it right, how should I have asked the buyer to do it?)

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A good question.  My take on it is that as long as the communication between seller and buyer concerning a cancellation is done through the "in-house" channels (i.e. eBay Messages or the Ask Seller A Question stream), then eBay (or more accurately probably, eBay's computers) should be able to determine whether the buyer asked for the cancellation or not. 

Also, I expect when you choose the option that a buyer made a mistake, etc., this should be picked up by the system.  I wonder though if a slip of the finger on the keyboard so that you accidentally choose the "wrong" reason would be irrevocably counted as a defect.  It would be nice to know if a seller could contact eBay and have that sort of error reversed.

Now, exactly how  the determination is made so that a seller doesn't get a defect is another question -- that's the "if we can see the seller cancelled at the buyer's request"  part of the text below that really isn't made completely clear.  I noticed some references in the Seller Update that eBay was going to be upgrading its returns processing system, so perhaps other defect-tracking programmes will also be upgraded. 

By the way, I think you're safe for the moment with this one anyway - I believe defects won't start being recorded until tomorrow (April 16th), when we should start to see them show up on our Dashboards.  You still then have until August 20th before the defects actually begin to apply to your Performance evaluation. 

The "how" of defect tracking may be a good question for the "Pinks" tomorrow (I'll try to remember to be at my computer). 

Here for reference are the relevant parts of the Seller Update (FAQ section):

What is counted as a seller-cancelled transaction?

Any transaction cancelled through eBay or refunded through PayPal because the seller no longer has the item (such as out of stock) or chooses not to ship the item after it was sold is counted as seller-cancelled.

Does the transaction count as a defect if the buyer asked me to cancel it?

No, a cancelled transaction does not count as a defect if we can see the seller cancelled at the buyer's request. If the buyer asks you to cancel the transaction, make sure you do so through the eBay cancel transaction process and select the correct reason for the cancellation.

[pjcdn2005]

Yes, you did it right. Ebay does look at the reason given for the request.

[pjcdn2005]

You still then have until August 20th before the defects actually begin to apply to your Performance evaluation.

If a seller has 400+ transactions quarterly, than defects acquired from May 1, 2014- July 30, 2014 will count against them on the August 20th evaluation. Sellers who have less transactions than that will be evaluated on August 20th for any defects acquired since August 31, 2013.

[rose-dee]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Yes, you did it right. Ebay does look at the reason given for the request.

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The question is - how?  In order to determine whether a defect applies or not, surely this is going to have to be done automatically (i.e. the data is captured by computer when the seller inputs the reason for the cancellation). 

Yet how does the system know the seller is giving the true reason for the cancellation?  Will the system be able to "read" emails from the buyer to see if the buyer actually asked?  If not, a lot of sellers are going to choose the non-defect option when cancelling. 

I'd be very interested to know how eBay is going to be able to track buyer's requests for cancellation.  At the moment those requests are "informal", i.e. sent as messages, but I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of automated "Ask Buyer to Cancel" option may soon appear in the transaction drop-down box.

With the potential for DSRs and neutral FB to now generate defects, I think I'd rather have a non-paying buyer be able to ask in some simple way for a cancellation rather than having to chase the buyer through an UID and end up with retaliatory FB/DSRs. 

[recped]

Same way they do now!

Seller initiates a cancellation, buyer is informed and given the opportunity to agree or not. If they agree all is good, if they don't the seller loses, if they don't do either it's considered to be the same as if they agree.

All eBay needs to do is slightly tweak the language used in the notice that is sent to buyers.

Example

Dear Buyer

Your seller has initiated a transaction cancellation request on your behalf, please confirm that you agree to this cancellation by clicking here.

eBay

Of course knowing eBay they will probably come up with some much more complicated way!

[rose-dee]

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@recped wrote:

Same way they do now!

Seller initiates a cancellation, buyer is informed and given the opportunity to agree or not. If they agree all is good, if they don't the seller loses, if they don't do either it's considered to be the same as if they agree.

All eBay needs to do is slightly tweak the language used in the notice that is sent to buyers.

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Yes, but my understanding is that if the seller initiates any cancellation at all, it will now be counted a defect, in the absence of evidence that the buyer asked for the cancellation.  My question is: how will eBay be able to "see" that the seller cancelled at the buyer's request, as they claim?  This is from the FAQ text in the Seller Update: --

"No, a cancelled transaction does not count as a defect if we can see the seller cancelled at the buyer's request.  If the buyer asks you to cancel the transaction, make sure you do so through the eBay cancel transaction process and select the correct reason for the cancellation." 

So will eBay simply take the seller's word for any cancellation if the seller chooses the option "buyer requested cancellation" (or whatever the option wording is, I can't recall).  Then what do they mean by the first sentence?  Are they going to be checking buyers' emails?  I'm afraid I'm sort of going "huh?" at this. 

[rose-dee]

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@recped wrote:

Seller initiates a cancellation, buyer is informed and given the opportunity to agree or not. If they agree all is good, if they don't the seller loses, if they don't do either it's considered to be the same as if they agree.

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Wait -- I just re-read this -- are you saying that sellers should risk getting a defect by initiating a cancellation process themselves where it seems appropriate (but in the absence of the buyer's prior request), hoping the buyer will agree? 

For example, if I have a buyer who has purchased an item and hasn't paid in a week, if I initiate a cancellation and I'm mistaken about the buyer's silence (they went on holiday perhaps and forgot their purchase), or the buyer decides they want the item after all, I'll get a defect. 

That seems a rather imprudent route to take to resolve such a problem, which occurs often enough to be a concern with respect to defects.  I think I'd rather email the buyer and suggest that if they really don't want the item, they send me a message requesting that I cancel the transaction.  A bit roundabout, but safer I would think.

[pjcdn2005]

I don't think that is that complicated

Buyer asks seller to cancel

Seller gives reason as buyer changed mind

Ebay sends a request to buyer similar to what recped suggested asking if they agreed to the cancellation

Buyer agrees

Transaction now cancelled at the request of the buyer. Ebay will "see" why the transaction was cancelled.

Seller tells buyer they are out of stock and sends a cancellation request stating that they are out of stock

Ebay sends a request to buyer stating reason.....

Buyer agrees

Transaction now cancelled at the request of the seller

Seller receives defect. Ebay will "see" why the transaction was cancelled.

Seller tells buyer they are out of stock and sends a cancellation request stating that buyer changed their mind

Ebay sends a cancellation request to the buyer stating reason....

Buyer disagrees with the reason. Perhaps they will have the option of still agreeing to cancel but can change reason...Either way, seller receives defect

I am sure that if the seller disagrees with the buyer's agreement or non agreement to the cancellation, that ebay may then look at any messages that may support either side's claim. Other than when there is a disagreement, I think that it will be very straight forward.

[pjcdn2005]

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@rose-dee wrote:

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@recped wrote:

Seller initiates a cancellation, buyer is informed and given the opportunity to agree or not. If they agree all is good, if they don't the seller loses, if they don't do either it's considered to be the same as if they agree.

---

Wait -- I just re-read this -- are you saying that sellers should risk getting a defect by initiating a cancellation process themselves where it seems appropriate (but in the absence of the buyer's prior request), hoping the buyer will agree? 

For example, if I have a buyer who has purchased an item and hasn't paid in a week, if I initiate a cancellation and I'm mistaken about the buyer's silence (they went on holiday perhaps and forgot their purchase), or the buyer decides they want the item after all, I'll get a defect. 

That seems a rather imprudent route to take to resolve such a problem, which occurs often enough to be a concern with respect to defects.  I think I'd rather email the buyer and suggest that if they really don't want the item, they send me a message requesting that I cancel the transaction.  A bit roundabout, but safer I would think.

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It's simple enough to avoid that by filing an unpaid item claim. Whether the buyer then pays or not, you wouldn't get a defect.

As I alluded to in my last post, you should be able to phone ebay and appeal when you feel that you should not have received a defect.

[rose-dee]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

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It's simple enough to avoid that by filing an unpaid item claim. Whether the buyer then pays or not, you wouldn't get a defect.

As I alluded to in my last post, you should be able to phone ebay and appeal when you feel that you should not have received a defect.

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'pj' -- I really don't think it's that simple anymore.  Consider this: by filing a UID you may not get a defect for that part of the process, but if the buyer is "ticked off" by being on the receiving end of the UID, if they finally pay they may just decide the transaction is only worth a neutral FB, or decide to use the DSRs to vent -- you get a defect anyway. 

My point was that by acceding to a buyer's wishes (please cancel the transaction), you're making a satisfied customer who not only may return to buy another time, but is unlikely to leave poor FB/DSRs. 

These are issues I think we sellers are going to have to think about more clearly now.  The days of the knee-jerk UID are over, IMO.  They are no longer quite as attractive, from a seller's point of view.

[rose-dee]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

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As I alluded to in my last post, you should be able to phone ebay and appeal when you feel that you should not have received a defect.

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I'm afraid I don't have the same confidence in eBay's CS people as you do, 'pj'. 

From my experience, they are mostly ill-informed, poorly trained, semi-literate in English, and not knowledgeable enough about eBay to be able to exercise good judgment once they're no longer reading from a script. 

[recped]

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'pj' -- I really don't think it's that simple anymore.  Consider this: by filing a UID you may not get a defect for that part of the process, but if the buyer is "ticked off" by being on the receiving end of the UID, if they finally pay they may just decide the transaction is only worth a neutral FB, or decide to use the DSRs to vent -- you get a defect anyway.

This is exactly as it is TODAY, open a UID, buyer pays, they are free to leave whatever feedback they like and ding your stars at will.

[rose-dee]

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@recped wrote:

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This is exactly as it is TODAY, open a UID, buyer pays, they are free to leave whatever feedback they like and ding your stars at will.

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However, since under the new standards a buyer-requested cancellation will not result in a defect in any circumstances, I think I'd prefer to suggest to buyers that they ask me to cancel, rather than simply starting a UID. 

The problem is that neutral FB is now a defect as well.  I can imagine a slightly put-out buyer choosing to leave neutral FB if they feel they've been forced to complete a transaction they may not have wanted to complete.

Also, two of the DSRs that might previously have been "dinged" by buyers in such a situation no longer create defects. Buyers may not realize this, but sellers may need to consider different buyer reactions in DSRs.

So I think things aren't exactly as they were. 

[pjcdn2005]

The problem is that neutral FB is now a defect as well.  I can imagine a slightly put-out buyer choosing to leave neutral FB if they feel they've been forced to complete a transaction they may not have wanted to complete.

How many neutral, negatives or low DSR's have you received to date because you filed an unpaid item claim?

In over 6 years of selling, I haven't receive any when I have filed a claim and I honestly don't think that it is that common.I always see people write about 'what if' it happens but rarely if ever read about it actually happening.

I always do send a message to a buyer before I file a claim and usually give them about 24 hours to reply. If they don't reply by then, I file for an UI. That system has always worked for me in the past so I don't plan on changing how I handle it in the future.

[rose-dee]

'pj' -- I think you may have missed my point.  While I rarely have non-payers anyway, I'm simply saying that given my 'druthers, I'd prefer to choose between a process that will never result in a defect, and one that has the potential of creating defects in several ways.  It's not a hypothetical situation, but a choice with certain definable risks.

In any event, I see no point in forcing payment in most situations, and never have.  How many times do people go into stores, pick up something, then change their minds before they get to the cash register?  I've certainly done that myself!  What's the result of running after such buyers to pay for something they actually may not want (or be able to afford)?  In my view, I'd be creating a buyer who likely won't come back again. 

If I can allow a buyer to gracefully back out of a transaction, happy to be relieved of the unwanted (or unaffordable) item, and at the same time get my FVFs back without risking a defect, I'm more than happy to sell the item to someone else. 

[ricarmic]

rose: as a note, I checked my preliminary stats and the good news is as we discussed my cancelled transaction counts are ZERO, which means they are using the "reason" to identify if it was buyer requested or not....all my cancellation requests have had "buyer purchased by mistake or changed mind" as the reason.....

[rose-dee]

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@ricarmic wrote:

rose: as a note, I checked my preliminary stats and the good news is as we discussed my cancelled transaction counts are ZERO, which means they are using the "reason" to identify if it was buyer requested or not....all my cancellation requests have had "buyer purchased by mistake or changed mind" as the reason.....

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Yes, this seems to be the case -- I think Raphael clarified this if you look at today's Wed. open board discussion.  My main concern was that the information from eBay seemed to suggest a buyer had to make the "ask", but it seems that as long as the seller chooses the "non-defect" option, and the buyer accepts the cancellation, no defect will result. 

Good news, because it does happen -- on an infrequent but regular basis -- that buyers will make some mistake in purchasing, and want to get out of a transaction because of it, even though they may not actually think of requesting the cancellation of the seller. 

I had this happen this week -- I had a non-payer who wasn't responding (just "disappeared" for several days after purchasing).  Since I could see she was quite a new eBayer, I suspected she might want out of the transaction.  I sent her a message saying I'd be willing to send a cancellation, and got back a 3-word message of "Yes, ca - sorry".  I wasn't sure whether this would count as a "buyer request", but sent the cancellation anyway, and she accepted.  No defect today - hooray! 

So if your buyer accepts the cancellation, whether they've actually asked for it via a message or not doesn't matter.  Raphael says eBay doesn't monitor user-to-user emails, despite the wording in the FAQ that says: "...does not count as a defect if we can see the seller cancelled at the buyer's request".  What they really meant was "...does not count as a defect if the seller chooses a cancellation option other than "I ran out of stock" or "I sold the item to another buyer", and the buyer accepts the cancellation".  I wish eBay had been a little more clear in their "explanatory" language.