'Remorse' return on item that sold with free shipping

[momcqueen]

Just a quickie question here:

If a buyer wants to make a 'remorse' return on an item that included 'free' shipping as part of the item price, how does that work? When giving a refund for remorse returns, sellers are not obligated to give the buyer their original postage paid back. Correct? I recall that is the case form my research in the past. 

So then what if that 'postage paid' was 'free shipping' paid by the seller? Does it mean the seller can deduct the cost of postage to the buyer from the refund given on return? Or is that where a restocking fee is supposed to come in: to reduce losses on remorse returns on items sold with postage included in the item price. 

I don't handle enough Returns to know the answer.

Thanks.

[silverpinups]

Do you have to pay for return shipping? If not then there's nothing to deduct and just refund the full cost minus any restocking fee you may charge for returns.

[momcqueen]

No, the cost of return postage is the responsibility of the buyer. It's a Return for reasons of Remorse... and all in theory at this point.

However, on a Remorse Return, the seller isn't required to refund the original cost of postage since it was paid to the carrier for a service that was indisputably rendered. 

My question is: how does that apply to an item that sold with 'free shipping' which is, as all sellers know, really 'postage included'?

The 'full cost' doesn't include original 'cost of postage' on a Remorse Return. Do you see the hair I am splitting?

[momcqueen]

In other words, with a Remorse Return, the buyer pays return postage for sending it back and they are NOT eligible for a refund on the postage they paid as part of the order itself, only the item cost. 

But what about items that sold with 'free' shipping? Where does that leave the seller?

I really don't want to have to call ebay Customer Service about this. 

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sell/return-process.html

[momcqueen]

The portion of the policy in question is here. Rules change if it's escalated, and we all already know it's bad as a seller to let that ever happen.

If a buyer returns an item for any other reason, including deciding not to purchase the item after all, you keep any restocking fee specified in the listing Return policy. You can waive this fee, if you like.

In these situations, you can also keep the original shipping charge. The buyer pays for the return shipping charges, unless you specify in the Return policysection of the listing that you pay for return shipping charges.

For this type of return, in most cases the refund is the total purchase price, including item cost, sales tax and other charges, less:

• Original shipping (at your discretion)

• Restocking fee (if specified in the listing Return Policy)

• Return shipping (if specified in the listing Return Policy)

If a return is escalated 

If you don't issue a refund within 5 business days of receiving the returned item, a buyer can open an eBay Money Back Guarantee case. The eBay Money Back Guarantee refund amount, regardless of the reason for the return, is:

 

A refund amount could be higher through the eBay Money Back Guarantee. We strongly encourage you to issue original refunds on time.

[silverpinups]

Well, if they haven't left feedback the buyer may retaliate using feedback saying, "Seller refunded but charged me for the shipping cost that was free to begin with".

Now we know you paid shipping for the item but if it's included in your ad then I wouldn't bother with deducting it from the total. 

It just depends on how you want to handle it.....

[silverpinups]

So if the buyer escalates the claim then you pay anyways so I would just refund the full price minus the return shipping once it arrives.

Hopefully that will be the end of it......

[momcqueen]

I'm not convinced this will manifest as an actual return. It's something that sold to a new (guest) user, and it's not the buyer trying to make a return. It's a third party who says they received it as a gift, and it's been communicated to me off-eBay which raises for me a few flags.

[silverpinups]

That's a weird situation... proceed with caution, how are they communicating with you? I would just say that you will only deal with the original purchaser for a refund through the eBay message system.   

[pjcdn2005]

You cannot withhold the shipping cost if the listing did not have a separate charge for shipping.

You haven't charged 'original shipping' so you cannot deduct it from the refund.

[momcqueen]

I include the Packing Slip available via PayPal inside every order parcel. This is what they used to make contact. I was polite and gave them the EBay Returns advice; I won't accept a Return any other way. There are some other subtleties that make me a bit leery about it but I won't delve into that here. For obvious reasons, I need the actual buyer to open an actual return and return my actual item before I go sending anyone money.

[momcqueen]

Thank you, pjcdn. Can you cite a source for that?

[pjcdn2005]

As far as I know there is nothing spelled out in the help pages saying specifically that but the policy you quoted is fairly specific. and states what you can withhold.   The policy says that you can withhold original shipping but you didn't charge shipping so you can't now say that they paid separately for shipping.  The only way to recover it or a portion of it is to charge a restocking fee which has to be stated in your return policy. I know a lot of sellers who have eliminated free shipping because of this.

[momcqueen]

You might be right but to play Devil's Advocate, eBay does not state the parameters for the term Original Shipping in that section. Clearly, eBay can see the seller paid postage and what amount. That amount is Original Shipping. It doesn't clarify anything about an item that sold with postage included in item price. I need to see policy. When I call Customer Service about this, if it ever comes to that, I'm still going to ask to see the actual policy on it. We cannot be expected to play by rules that no one can read.

[pjcdn2005]

I wouldn't have posted it as fact if I didn't know it to be true. Seems pretty obvious to me that you can't withhold for something that you didn't charge for in the first place but believe what you want.

 If you really feel entitled to withhold an amount that you never specifically charged for in the first place you could refund  through PP and forgo your fvf but the buyer could probably fight that if they chose to.

[momcqueen]

I seek procedure. There is no question of 'entitlement' afoot as I don't have a Returns case open to issue *any* refund toward. It's not about what the seller charged for postage, it's about what amount the seller paid for postage. I'm looking for official clarification as opposed to opinion.

[momcqueen]

Also, if it's as obviously true as you say it to be, it'll be written clearly somewhere for all sellers to read so they know exactly what to do. I'm looking for that passage of text.

[momcqueen]

The policy needs to clearly state:

Plus (or minus) Original Shipping as Paid By The Buyer

Or

Plus (or minus) Original Shipping as Paid By The Seller

They are not the same thing. The only obvious thing to me is that this needs to be clarified by ebay.

[femmefan1946]

The advantages of Free Shipping are that (at least in theory) we get more buyers, since FS makes the bottom line price of the doohickey clear.

This is particularly helpful for phone shoppers, who are supposed to be more than 50 % of current buyers.

And everyone hates paying shipping, even when the shipping is perfectly valid. We all especially detest paying shipping which is higher than the selling price.

The disadvantages of Free Shipping are that the selling price may seem higher than that of a competitor who does not include the shipping cost in the asking price (which is what is really happening with 'free' shipping) and that when we refund we must refund the selling price even though that included the shipping price.

And generally, in a Dispute, the seller is told to refund the full payment, including shipping, even if the buyer is paying the return shipping as happens in a Buyer Remorse return.

What it comes down to is, the seller should expect to refund the entire original payment in case of a lost Dispute, and probably in any case where the buyer returns a saleable item.

And that means, the occasional cost of an occasional return must be factored into our overall costs.

If a seller is having a lot of returns or disputes, more than 1% of transactions, say, then the problem is not with the customers.

[dutchman48]

With Ebay, what is written or not has no bearing. It strictly depends on how they interpret it, not how you interpret it.

I was told not long ago when I asked for a written policy that says I can't do something and was bluntly told for me to find  where it says in writing I could.

Or when they tell you that blocked buyers can purchase under a different ID as long as there is no malicious intent.

I could go on, but bottom line is buyers are King, what they want they get. Sellers can be thrown out with the trash for all Ebay cares!

In your case, I would also agree, right or wrong, that without a restocking fee, you will have to refund the total amount the buyer paid other than their return shipping.

Bigger question is, why are you dealing with a 3rd party, they are not the purchaser. Don't reply or if you so, just tell them to have the buyer contact you through Ebay and save the headaches. We have enough headaches as it is.