Returns and Refunds

[toysandstuff2015]

I have been selling on Ebay.ca for two years now but recently I am getting a lot of claims that "items are not as described", or "one piece is missing", or "item damaged in mail".  All of which would be fine and I would facilitate a return, however the items are as described and the listings have pictures.  If a piece was missing I would provide the extra piece  but people get mad at that suggestion.  If it was broken I would start a claim with Canada Post to address damaged items, but users refuse to help with these processes.   When asked if they can take pictures to show the damaged item, they claim they do not have a camera and have no item to take an image.  Often if the item is sent back it is missing far more than they reported but still get their money back.   Knex items are missing their instruction books, Playmobil stores are missing all the items in the store.     Frequently in selling Playmobil and Knex people buy items, claim it is missing pieces, and then keep the instructions or parts (this has been admitted in emails), but even then Ebay does nothing.  I have had users email back after getting their money apologizing but stating that they could not find the part or instruction anywhere else.  Often I just don't get the item back but still have to refund people's money.  It seems like a lot of people now want the items for free, parts of items for free, or have buyers remorse and then get the item for free.These users then also refused to work with Canada Post or USPS to confirm damage or loss in the mail, which leaves me without the items or money. I have lost almost a 1000.00 in the past month to this which has never happened before.

I have also recently had the problem of buyers demanding faster postal service and increases in insurance at the last minute.  Twice now they have paid for these extra charges and then told ebay I am asking for more money once they have the item.  As a result I am loosing funds out of pocket because people want items faster and then want their money back once they have them.

Even reporting sellers does not seem to do anything.  I am not sure I can continue selling loosing all of my items and money to people who seem to just not want to pay.  Does anyone have any advice?

[2nd-time-around-jewelry]

I agree that it is getting harder for us sellers especially with dishonest buyers. I think a lot of buyers have learned how to milk the system knowing that they will get away with it. eBay constantly pushes their money back guarantee. Buyers are constantly told that if they are having any problems at all eBay will back them at the expense of sellers. eBay used to be a fun place to sell but not anymore. It is a fun place to buy as you can get most things for free now if you make a little fuss or outright lie.

[toysandstuff2015]

I agree, I know what is sent (I double check).  I know that accidents can happen in the mail, and am willing to deal with Canada Post to get a fair solution. But none of these sellers (22 in a row now) are willing to address the situation, get the extra part, or deal with Canada Post / USPS, it is just give me my money back.  Tales are told of the wrong item sent (possible but no likely), parts missing and broken, etc, etc,.  The stories go on and one.  Often even the buyer's stories change but ebay does not seem to look into that.  One sale was delivered over a month ago, with no problems.  No emails, no claims, and today the assertion is that the original packaging (which was not in the listing or sent with the item) was damaged and there is now a request after 4 weeks for money back.    I have watched as these same users then turn around and sell the same item days later. 

I just keep loosing funds now.

[toysandstuff2015]

One user I am dealing with has shifted their claim from the Item was damaged in the mail- Until they discovered they might have to cooperate with Canada Post.  Then the claim shifted to the listing was not as described, until they were asked to describe how it was not the same as the listing.  Then the claim shifted to item was missing parts,  at which point they were asked to send images of the item to see which parts were missing so that replacements could be sent.  At this point they claimed that their camera phone did not work and they escalated the case.  At which point despite the refusal to help me fix the problem or deal with Canada Post and their ever changing story, ebay gave them the refund. 

[femmefan1946]

My only suggestion really goes against my grain, but...

With Fixed Price items we meet our customers when they buy.

With Auctions, we can look at a bidder's feedback and cancel bids  and/or Block bidders who seem hinkey.

You could also set your Seller Preferences to automatically Block bidders/buyers with Unpaid Item Strikes, although that is not directly your problem.

[toysandstuff2015]

Thank you for taking the time to provide advice.  I am just frustrated by how so many transactions now result in odd claims and buyers refuse to await the new part or deal with the postal system.  Instead it is just the demand for refunds while many relist the item in their accounts.  It is very frustrating.  Thank you.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

Wondering if this board is just going to turn into a place mainly to discuss difficult buyers. Seems to be a recurring theme as of late as some buyers figure out the loopholes.

-CM

[momcqueen]

This is very unusual. While toys are not immune to problem buyers, I also sell toys and I have not been beset by the problems you describe. Is it possible that someone has set out to sabotage your business? Are you well-known in Playmobil reddit groups or other circles? Could you have been doxxed so that there is a concerted effort to shut you down for some reason? A jealous ex-spouse or anything? Angry competitor? I'm genuinely confused because the situation that you describe is not a normal experience for a seller unless they're in a high-fraud category and running something shady themselves as does not seem to be the case with you. 

I think if I were you, I'd bring this to the attention of Tyler at the Weekly Chat. Something isn't right here. 

[femmefan1946]

I don't think discussing problems with buyers is a bad thing.

And (although it doesn't look like the problem here) sometimes when a seller has a lot of problem transactions, it turns out to be something the seller is doing.

Which is why it is helpful when the seller uses her own ID to post, since we can then sometimes spot the real problem.

There is a Selling Tools Board as well, although it is not much used.

[toysandstuff2015]

Not to my knowledge am I a high end toy seller.  I can only say that I try my best to list items as they are, describe them as they are and provide lots and lots of pictures.  Yet routinely now Playmobil toys lead to return and refund requests as they are missing something small (which I can only say they are not), and Knex toys are claimed to be missing engines, rare pieces, or expensive instructions (Large Ferris Wheel - instructions are rare).    I just have the sense that any loophole possible to be used seems to now be used.  I don't think anyone is out to get me, just  a reoccurring trend which has reached crippling levels.

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

[femmefan1946]

For the instructions, could you scan them before shipping and send the copy rather than the original?

Then ship the original 30 days after delivery?

(I have no idea how the collectors think on this.)

[lotzofuniquegoodies · Accepted solution]

I don't think it's a bad thing either. It was more of an observation. Happy to help whenever I can. It seems that causing a return with the new policy has become a little too easy. Maybe there need to be more checks and balances to make sure both sellers and buyers are playing by the rules.

-CM

Side story: Purchased a brand new grass trimmer (sealed box) today from a major store chain. Included a label ****NO RETURNS**** Defective item will be covered under repair warranty only.  See customer service for repair depot. They used to have a reasonable return policy. Possibly implemented this variation due to the fact a number of customers were taking advantage of the situation.

[toysandstuff2015]

Thank you all once again.  With my last two returns which will total 700 Canadian I have just given up as the stories and reasons keep changing.  It would cost me another 200 just to pay to ship the items back and so I have given up and given refunds without returns.  Once my listed items are compete this week, I think I am done on ebay.ca until the ease of return is reexamined by ebay.ca

Thank you all.

[femmefan1946]

If you pay $200 you get $700 worth of merchandise (ignoring your sunk costs of course)

Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

Something is going on here.

tyler@ebay

@happy_pigeon

Could you look into this member's buyers?

[momcqueen]

In my opinion, it is better to NEVER allow a buyer to keep an item they claim as Not as Described but to instead always require return for refund. If you allow them to keep the item and give them their money back, you are teaching them it's okay to play the system: all they have to do to get free stuff is make a pain of themselves, regardless of the merit of their claims. Always always always return for refund. In my books. Return postage is a moot point in comparison to lost inventory. 

[happy_pigeon]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

If you pay $200 you get $700 worth of merchandise (ignoring your sunk costs of course)

Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

Something is going on here.

tyler@ebay

@happy_pigeon

Could you look into this member's buyers?

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Sadly, there's not much we can do about past buyers or closed cases.

I do agree that if all of the numbers are roughly as reported, that's a shockingly high number of cases opened.

I'm assuming that toysandstuff2015 has done the bare-minimum stuff like Setting buyer requirements to block problem buyers.

Honestly, I would consider making my listings "No returns accepted" before I stopped selling completely. It's not what eBay recommends from a business and customer service perspective, but if it's becoming problematic for you and eating into your bottom line, I'd consider it.

Of course, a "No returns" policy doesn't protect you from SNAD or INR cases, but you can at least push back on these returns if you can be sure the item was shipped in the reported condition, and that your listings were super detailed and included lots of pictures (for proof later). They want to open a case about it? Let them. 

Just my two cents for the little that it's worth. We're working on improving our algorithms to automatically detect buyers that abuse return policies. We know that it is sometimes a problem.