Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion

17,000+ Canadians lose their jobs

 

Target Canada files today for bankruptcy protection in Canada

 

http://www.streetinsider.com/Corporate+News/Target+%28TGT%29+Plans+to+Exit+Canadian+Ops%3B+Boosts+Q4...

Message 1 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion

wow would of never guessed : / have an attachment to target because i stood in front of one for 4 hours in the brutal cold to get a ps4 😄 first and last time i wait outside a store for something instead of just waiting a few months! Also know a few friends who work there wonder what is going to happen with the stores and who will buy them. If no one does and there are 17k people out of a job at the beginning of the year good luck to all the people trying to get there first job in the summer i feel for you it's already hard enough:(

Message 2 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion

Target had an incredible opportunity here and they blew it from day 1.

 

Given their buying power and the strength of the US dollar they could have done a lot more in the areas of inventory and pricing and they failed utterly. For the most part, they poorly trained staff and the stores were not run particularly well at store level either. This closing then is absolutely no surprise.

 

I feel bad for the 17k people who will find themselves out of work. Most stories I have read state the "most" employees will receive a minimum of 4 weeks in severance. I would be interested to find out what Target's interpretation of the word "most" is as I think that the rest of us might find it somewhat lacking. Time will tell.

 

Cheers,

 

thD

Message 3 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion

""most" employees will receive a minimum of 4 weeks in severance"

 

Actually, the announcement from Target specifies that full time employees will receive up to 16 weeks in severance pay.

Message 4 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion

Radio Shack also filed for bankruptcy protection this morning. I think their days are numbered as well.

Message 5 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion


@pierrelebel wrote:

""most" employees will receive a minimum of 4 weeks in severance"

 

Actually, the announcement from Target specifies that full time employees will receive up to 16 weeks in severance pay.


Correct, my bad. I meant to write 4 months from the initial report i saw. The CTV story I just read says 16 weeks but my initial point remains regarding what they eman by "most" employees and now the stories have added "up to" into the mix.

Message 6 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion

From the official news release from Target (USA):

 

"Upon approval by the Court, the proposed trust would provide that nearly all Target Canada-based employees receive a minimum of 16 weeks of compensation, including wages and benefits coverage for employees who are not required for the full wind-down period."

 

http://pressroom.target.ca/news/target-corporation-announces-plans-to-discontinue-canadian-operation...

 

To lose your job is not great.  To receive 16 weeks severance pay after less than two year employment is better than experienced by Canadian workers in most instances when an employer closes its doors.

Message 7 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion

Anonymous
Not applicable

Not surprising!!  I love Target when I shop in USA but not in Canada as in Canada they almost never stock their shelves which wasted of our time going there each time.  Plus the prices are way too high in Canada, so why the heck should they think we Canadians would go "gaga" when we fully knew the prices in Canada are way too high.

 

Sorry for those 17k employees.

Message 8 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion


@pierrelebel wrote:

From the official news release from Target (USA):

 

"Upon approval by the Court, the proposed trust would provide that nearly all Target Canada-based employees receive a minimum of 16 weeks of compensation, including wages and benefits coverage for employees who are not required for the full wind-down period."

 

http://pressroom.target.ca/news/target-corporation-announces-plans-to-discontinue-canadian-operation...

 

To lose your job is not great.  To receive 16 weeks severance pay after less than two year employment is better than experienced by Canadian workers in most instances when an employer closes its doors.


You see, that was the point I was tring to make about how many workers will actually see significant severance and how much that severance will be. "Upon approval by the court" & "the proposed trust" leaves things wide open at this point. Depending on how many Canadian creditors are owed how much and many other things that could happen the settlement that workers will receive may not be nearly so nice. That sort of jargon is typical in situations like these and again typically, the company talks out one side of its face promising the workers the earth, sun, moon and stars, while out the other side of their face they're preparing to say well the court wouldn't allow us to pay this and that and we had proposed to apy you so it's not our fault. To the best of my knowledge anything beyond what the actual law dictates for severance, as you mentioned Pierre for less than 2 years service, is completely voluntary by the company and given the current state of Target's finances don't be surprised to hear that they weaseled out from their glorious promises to the workers.

 

thD

Message 9 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion

"they weaseled out from their glorious promises to the workers."

 

I am certainly not trying to defend Target but let us try to keep things in perspective.

 

Target puts the severance money for the employees in a trust administered by the Court.  If the judge decides that some of that money should go to a creditor or a group of creditors (landlords for example) instead of the employees, Target has no control over the decision.  They have nothing to "weasel out of" as they have paid the money meant for the employees.

 

Hopefully things will work out in such a way that employees will get all the money allocated for them.

Message 10 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion

When I heard this announcement, I wondered what (if any) effect this will have on Target's eBay business, as well as on HBC (which Target bought a while ago). 

 

I suppose what it boils down to is how much money they've lost in their venture into Canada and whether it will affect the remainder of their business(es).  Personally I'd hate to see HBC fold up and disappear. 

Message 11 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion

Target didn't buy HBC, they bought the Zellers leases that HBC was shutting down. The real losers in this situation beyond the employees and some creditors will be the landlords, I think many of the locations were owned by Rio-Can.

 

Near me was a big new development that was anchored by Target. Even with Target there it was a horrible design (a mash-up of an enclosed mall with a power centre in a feeble attempt to create a "traditional" street like environment (they ended up with a giant block of concrete which appears from the outside to be nothing more than a parking garage). That development is going to be dead in the water without a prime tenant.

 

 

 

 



"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915
- answering Trolls is voluntary, my policy is not to participate.
Message 12 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion

HBC is owned by a New York equity firm, NRDC Equity Partners.  With headquarters in Toronto, The HBC owns and directly oversees and operates Hudson's Bay, Home Outfitters, Lord & Taylor, and Saks Fifth Avenue.  It's quite diversified, with interests in the mortgage, personal insurance, and credit card businesses, and is further involved in joint ventures and other types of business products.

Message 13 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion

When NRDC Equity Partners acquired the Company in July, 2008, a new chapter in HBC’s history began. 

The incoming Board appointed a new leadership comprised of top-notch retailers with proven international experience to marry the Zucker vision of superlative customer service with a clear new direction for HBC and its constituent banners. 

 

And what’s next?  Well, as is so often the case with history, perhaps a case of “what goes around, comes around.” 

 

In September 2009 Governor Richard Baker announced that HBC would take the Company public again, which occurred in November 2012.

 

As for its Canadianness, the Company continues to confine its business to Canada, to operate nationally, to be a major employer of Canadians, to serve Canadians, and, as we have seen so dramatically during the recent Vancouver Winter Olympics, to reinforce Canadians’ vision of themselves and their country.  What’s more Canadian than that, eh?

 

http://www.hbcheritage.ca/hbcheritage/history/people/builders/a-history-of-hbc-ownership

 

Today HBC is a Canadian public company with shares trading on the Toronto Stock Exchange where everyone can buy them.

 

http://web.tmxmoney.com/quote.php?qm_symbol=HBC

 

 

Message 14 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion

Target Canada is one great BIG mess.

 

You knew there was trouble when the stores opened and shelves were  .... E M P T Y

 

and then later when the shelves were full...   it looked like Walmart.... or the Zellers stores they replaced

 

This business had a bankruptcy TARGET on its back from the start.

 

It is a wonder things did not fall apart sooner

Message 15 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion

I wonder why it was so hard for them to duplicate the brand they had in the States because one of the reasons people really liked Target is because of their shopping experience in the US.

Maybe there are some restrictions to what they can carry here - ummmm?


You only fail when you don't try!
Message 16 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion

"why it was so hard for them to duplicate"

 

Many factors including higher (sometimes much higher) costs of doing business in Canada.

 

Some factors should have been known to them before planning the Canadian expansion.  Target has 37 distribution centres in the USA while only 3 were planned for Canada, covering a larger territory. This suggests much higher distribution costs.

 

With many suppliers located in the USA, the costs of moving those goods from the manufacturers to the Canadian distribution centres would be higher.

 

Canadian retail labour costs substantially more than American labour.  Higher wages and benefits need to be paid in Canada.

 

Cost of renting retail space is usually higher, partially because costs of building in Canada are higher than in the USA.  Although Target had some benefits from taking over old Zellers leases at "below market" rates, they paid dearly for those leases and their locations were generally not the best.  That also explains why Zellers was struggling all those years.

 

One factor they did not plan for: the much lower value of the Canadian dollar in the last year.  Costs of imports from the USA have gone up nearly 20% in three years since they made a decision to move here.

 

Finally, expectations by Canadian shoppers were too high.  They expected the same selection and low prices they saw in the USA when cross-border shopping. Target simply could not meet those expectations.

Message 17 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion


@pierrelebel wrote:

 

As for its Canadianness, the Company continues to confine its business to Canada, to operate nationally, to be a major employer of Canadians, to serve Canadians, and, as we have seen so dramatically during the recent Vancouver Winter Olympics, to reinforce Canadians’ vision of themselves and their country.  What’s more Canadian than that, eh?

 


I'm happy to hear that HBC isn't part of the Target ship that's going down.  After all, we can lay claim one of the oldest (if not the oldest) continuously operating corporation in history.  

 

When Eaton's folded, I was glad that the Bay remained standing because they have always offered a comparable level of service and quality products. 

 

As for Target's demise, I'm sure Canadian Tire, another national icon, is going to be smiling all the way to the bank.  I suppose Wal-Mart won't be too heartbroken either.  

 

 

Message 18 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion

Many more  retailers are leaving Canada. 

 

It appears that Canada is a wasteland as far as retailers are concerned.     Expenses are too high, special packaging for Canada,  , and Ontario has the highest electric power cost in Canada.

Message 19 of 22
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Target pulling out of Canada after failed expansion

"special packaging for Canada"

 

???

 

The same is true for every country in the industrialized  world.  An American retailer wanting to expand to Germany (a market double the size of Canada in a much smaller territory) will require packaging in German, etc...  Pick your country, pick your languages.

 

"Special packaging" is a very small - largely irrelevant - factor in the demise of Target.  WalMart faces the same packaging requirements and is doing very fine in Canada!

Message 20 of 22
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