eBay

ezcalc · ‎07-24-2017

I sold a set of golf clubs through eBay.

More than ten days after the receipt of the item, the buyer contacted me about the crack in the shaft and demanded a partial refund with a threat of negative feedback.

But he does not want to return the clubs.

Apparently he damaged the graphite shaft installing a grip, which happens with frequency, in that the picture of the crack he sent does not match the pictures in the original post .

What's odd is that the eBay froze my Paypal account and arbitrarily asked me to generate a return shipping label.

But I never authorized the return and the buyer does not want to return the clubs either.

I sent a bunch of emails to eBay and talked with an eBay rep, but still no resolution in one way or another.

The buyer never returned my emails asking to send me the picture of the clubs or escalate to a dispute.

How much longer do I need to wait get a response from either eBay or the buyer about this stupid situation?

Incidentally, as a buyer, I once filed a dispute over a software I bought through eBay, which turned out to be a fake.

At that time, Paypal would not get involved in the dispute because "the item was not tangible", but I got my money back through the credit card company.

Please tell me what you guys think about the frustration I am having with eBay.

dutchman48 · ‎07-24-2017

What are the clubs worth and how much would return shipping be? How much is he asking for as a partial?

Personally, return for refund period.

If he does neg you should should be able to get it removed if you call.

ezcalc · ‎07-24-2017

The clubs were worth CAD $425 and the buyer demands US $60.

eBay wants me to pay for the shipping back and forth, even though I did not authorized the return.

And the buyer damaged my club.

What the heck the buyer has been doing for the entire time of 10+ days after he had received the clubs?

Apparently, the buyer modified the clubs by installing the grips and others.

That's why he would not send me the pics I asked.

Would anyone take the return in this situation? I don't think so.

I am not a dealer and the condition of the original post was " no return accepted"

I just want the eBay makes decision one way or the other.

The question is how long does eBay wait until the buyer makes a decision on whether to make it a dispute or not.

The buyer is sabotaging my Paypal account to extort the money unfairly.

July 15 was the deadline for him to make a decision to escalate into a dispute, but still no response.

pjcdn2005 · ‎07-25-2017

Regardless of your return policy, there is a money back guarantee on eBay when an item is not as described and since eBay does not know what the club looked like when you sent it out they will generally rule in the buyer's favour if the buyer asks eBay to step in. However, if the buyer has actually told you in ebay messages or in the dispute that he damaged or altered the club himself you could phone eBay and ask them to close the case since he cannot return the club in the same condition as which he received it.

If the buyer does not ask eBay to step in, the return request will close on its own in 30 business days. If you do nothing and the buyer does ask eBay to step in they may refund the buyer in full because you didn't provide a return shipping label or money for a label. In that case you may not get the clubs back and you would get an unresolved claim on your account.

hlmacdon · ‎07-25-2017

@ezcalc wrote:
The clubs were worth CAD $425 and the buyer demands US $60.
eBay wants me to pay for the shipping back and forth, even though I did not authorized the return.
What the heck the buyer has been doing for the entire time of 10+ days after he had received the clubs?
Apparently, the buyer modified the clubs by installing the grips and others.

I am not a dealer and the condition of the original post was " no return accepted"

The 10+ days doesn't matter. The buyer can technically open a paypal dispute up to 180 days later so really that is the number you should be thinking about. If the buyer has admitted modifying the item then you have a case as anything that is physically altered is not subject to buyer protection, otherwise you'll have to facilitate a return or come to an agreement with the buyer. In practical terms, there is no such thing as no returns accepted on ebay or when accepting payment via paypal (or any other merchant account for that matter) unfortunately. You are bound by the terms of their agreements, which afford buyers protection against items received not as described or damaged. I'm not sure how much return shipping is, but you might find it worthwhile to come to an agreement on a partial refund. Otherwise have them return the item.

A buyer has 5 business days after opening a return request (and having it approved) to ship the item. If they don't ship the item, you can call and get the return request closed which will unfreeze the funds. Your funds are frozen automatically when there is a return request, this is standard and nothing to be alarmed about. That being said there is nothing to stop the buyer from filing a paypal claim after their return request is closed. If they do so you can call into paypal and provide them with evidence the buyer has previously refused to return the item, which will count against them.

It is best not to get into back and forth exchanges with a buyer and if you believe they may be misleading you then ask in a polite way without accusing them of anything. A buyer kicking and screaming about not being willing to return something when they have a prepaid label on your dime generally does not go over well. Bear in mind they can always file a dispute with their credit card company after all of this. As you can see stating "no returns" in your listings is generally useless given the number of options a buyer has. It may seem frustrating as a seller, but when the shoe is on the other foot and you are the buyer it gives you some perspective on why it is setup the way it is.

femmefan1946 · ‎07-25-2017

Well you are going to be refunding.

Get over that.

Return for a full refund.

Do you want all the clubs back now that this hamfisted twerp has changed them?

If so

Return for full refund.

If he is in Canada, that's pretty easy and yes, you do have to send the Return Shipping Label.

If he is not in Canada, there is some thought that the new Shippo! service allows us to buy USPS labels.

New service and Yet To Be Determined.

(Would you have to use a courier for dimensions and weight? More complications).

If you believe the clubs having been substantially changed by the twerp, are unsaleable, you should be back on Customer Service.

During the day when the Americans are answering the phone.

They are not as bright as the Phillipine staff, but there is a slightly narrower language barrier.

Ask the rep if she plays golf, and if not ask if you could be transferred to someone who does. It may help.

Naturally, you will be polite.

Even so, you want the clubs Returned for a Full Refund.

Make the twerp work for it.

Politely.--- Captain Malcolm Reynolds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ3k2xA1Wcw

ezcalc · ‎07-25-2017

You did not read my post right.

The buyer does not want the refund.

ezcalc · ‎07-25-2017

The buyer does not want the return or the refund.

He just demands a partial refund.

If he did not modified the clubs, I am more than willing to take the clubs back.

What can I do if he modified the clubs when I received them?

Can I lodge a dispute in the regard?

What happened to the idea of seller protection?

ezcalc · ‎07-25-2017

In the case of the items such as golf clubs, it would make a lot of sense if eBay implements a policy to make the item not returnable once used.

I am not aware of such policy if it's there already, though.

This case surely made me twice about the wisdom of selling golf clubs on eBay.

Probably never.

Anonymous · ‎07-25-2017

Hey, why should the seller refund the FULL refund when in fact the buyer wants just a partially refund of $60.00. Send $60.00 and be glad that he is not asking for the FULL refund and move on.

hlmacdon · ‎07-25-2017

@ezcalc wrote:
In the case of the items such as golf clubs, it would make a lot of sense if eBay implements a policy to make the item not returnable once used.
I am not aware of such policy if it's there already, though.
This case surely made me twice about the wisdom of selling golf clubs on eBay.
Probably never.

The problem is ebay or any other third party will not be in a position to determine who is telling the truth. You say it is used or modified, the buyer says it isn't. If a buyer uses something normally and it breaks because of a manufacturing defect does the item remain returnable? This is why it always pays to be polite but be familiar with, and follow, site policies to the letter, and thus let a potential dishonest buyer say too much and incriminate themselves. From a paypal point of view, they have to fight any chargeback that a buyer initiates with their credit card company/bank, which means they have to provide actual evidence in the form of statements or photos provided by the buyer, not opinions or guesses. If they lose a chargeback, that eventually endangers the merchant rate they receive. Even a fraction of a percent on an agreement renewal makes a big difference at their volume. If they examine a case and see you aren't following site rules and adhering to the user agreement you agreed to, it gives them all the more incentive to decide against you.

As to whether you keep selling this sort of item you have to keep some perspective. How many problematic transactions have you had? How large is your sample size? Is it category that seems to have a high fraud rate? Some categories don't make sense to sell in unless you have the volume to offset occasional losses.

I'm also a very firm believer that as a seller if you put things like "AS IS" "ABSOLUTELY NO RETURNS "ALL SALES FINAL" in your listings you are making yourself a big fat target for a dishonest buyer. They know they can goad you into violating the policies of the site which means it is that much easier to get a case closed against you. They also know you are unfamiliar with site policies and therefore won't readily be able to make a successful case or appeal. In short, you make yourself a mark.

If you are selling long distance and take a payment method other than cash/bank transfer then you will always be stuck in this sort of position. If you did get the item back and it was not in the same condition you can take that up with ebay/paypal but it becomes a YMMV situation as to the outcome, which is why in some cases it makes sense to come to a partial refund agreement.

femmefan1946 · ‎07-25-2017

if eBay implements a policy to make the item not returnable once used.

I am not aware of such policy if it's there already, though.

EBay has that policy.

It has even been applied to secondhand clothing which was washed before wearing. The Dispute was lost by the buyer on the basis of 'significant change'.

That's why it would be helpful if the Customer Service Rep were a golfer. More likely to understand the problem of the grips.

In the short run, between dealing with the CSRs and return shipping labels and general anguish, the $60 partial seems sensible.

Darn it.

But frankly I would wait until the twerp opens a Dispute then promptly make the partial refund.

Make him work for his ill-gotten gains.

Revenge is sweet, saccharine sweet.-- Anne Shirley.

femmefan1946 · ‎07-25-2017

why should the seller refund the FULL refund when in fact the buyer wants just a partially refund of $60.00.

Such an optimist.

Do you really think that would be the last demand?

On the other hand, with a settled Dispute, no other dispute can be opened.

At least on eBay.

ezcalc · ‎07-25-2017

Get over it? How is it a reasonable solution?

"10+ days" delay of reporting an outstanding issue is not a factor?

The crack the buyer is talking about is not there in the original post.

Are you kidding me?

eBay put a word into my mouth by saying that I accepted the return, when I said no.

I feel deeply violated here.

I can live without ebay or paypal just fine.

Does anyone smell a rat here?

dutchman48 · ‎07-25-2017

You need to make a decision. You can go on and on about this and nothing will change.

return for refund in full and pay for return shipping or

give the partial refund

What you believe, what you think should happen, what is in your listing means absolutely 0 to Ebay

If you can't deal with this from a business perspective, maybe selling on line is not for you.

Sell locally on CL, Kijiji, newspaper for cash on pick up

dutchman48 · ‎07-25-2017

Oh, definitely make sure he opens a case before doing anything

spinorfields · ‎07-25-2017

Basically it comes down to do nothing until he opens a case. Then either offer the $60 or full refund plus shipping. There really are no other options that will not be worse for you in the end. Realistically paying return shipping plus a full refund to get back a set of damaged clubs is not a good option. You are stuck with a $60 refund...or losing even more.

ezcalc · ‎07-25-2017

You don't seem to grasp the main issue I am having with eBay..

There must be a set of rules that both the ebay and the seller agreed upon.

The problem is that eBay broke the rule arbitrarily and unilaterally.

In other words, I never agreed to accept the return.

But eBay is claiming that I have, which is absolutely false.

Does ebay have a right to break the rule and lie?

I don't think so.

If I said no to the buyer's demands , then ebay is supposed to let the buyer know that the seller rejected the buyer's demands and let him make a decision on whether to proceed with his claim or not..

I see a problem from a legal perspective.

Clearly this is a case of breach of contract in the minimum.

I'd feel sorry for the guys whose livelihood depends upon the ebay sale.