Unauthorized transaction

[gazer-sky]

Sold a cassette tape last month and shipped regular mail, shipment method was part of my auction listing of course.

Today got a Case opened email from paypal (there is nothing about it in my ebay account) so I called paypal to ask what is happening. The paypal rep told me "Unauthorized transaction" is opened via financial institution not directly by the user. I explained I have a picture of the package taken just before mailing (something I always do). I submitted that picture with an explanation and included in the explanation is that the buyer ebay messaged me asking me if I have similar items. I also took pic of cc and canada post receipts and included them in my paypal case.

If I had chosen to ship tracked it would almost doubled the $7 postage, which I should have offered but it is not always economical, earlier in the year I sold a jacket regular air international was $50, tracked air was a bit more than double.

Strange thing is the buyer has over 1700 feebacks since 2012 and 100% postitive.   

I searched and some similar cases say you guys had to be on hold with paypal long time, a suggestion is to choose the call back option. 

Just posting this to ask for advice and also just in case it comes in handy for others in the future.

[ricarmic]

My experience for these has been that they happen for 2 reasons:

-the bank (or PAYPAL) flags a batch of stuff for some reason (not initiated by the customer)

-the individual's card was flagged and ALL transactions even good ones were included as unauthorized by the credit card company.

In both cases I've been fortunate that I got the $$$ back eventually, even though there was no tracking on the packages.

[gazer-sky]

Thanks for replying. I guess a reason like flagged by bank is a waste of time for the seller to have to deal with....but what do I know

[reallynicestamps]

Contact the seller and ask him to check up on this.  I've had card purchases held up because I was not in the same country as the buyer.

Usually the card is being used personally by the buyer, and also used for online purchases and that can flag the transaction.

Apparently banks don't understand the concept that the interwebs are international.

When you contact the buyer tell him what the item is (not just the transaction number although that is also useful), when you shipped, the service used and the window for delivery. It is not a good idea to mention that the purchase was not tracked.

Not all transactions go perfectly. I hope this is a payment delay and not something for your Cookie Jar Insurance claim.

[ricarmic]

All we need to do is prove it was shipped, if the unauthorization remains in place, PAYPAL covers us for sure in that case.

If the unauthorization is eventually "dropped" we're still ok even if we didn't have shipping proof.

These things sometimes come up as "glitches" of their own IMO, and of course everyone is going to blame everyone else (ie PAYPAL says its the banks fault, the bank says its PAYPALs fault).

Just another joy of running an online business 😉

[gazer-sky]

Thanks, is it consensus that it is a good idea to contact buyer? If solely bank initiated what can the buyer do really, buyer calls bank/paypal and says this is good?

[ricarmic]

My recollection, that might be wrong is that there is no sense in contacting the buyer in this case, the problem was identified by the bank, the buyer likely has no idea it has happened.

Again my recollection was that the PAYPAL CSR told me to wait it out and see what happened, eventually I got notification that things were ok and the money was back in my hands again. The CSR told me these "glitchy" things happen sometimes and often the bank figures it out and drops it later on.

If it never comes back, or is sustained then perhaps contact the buyer but as is the case with you, there really isn't anything they can do since perhaps it wasn't them that "caused" it to happen.

[pjcdn2005]

I would contact the buyer.  If they didn’t know that the bank is contesting this particular transaction they may be able to contact their bank to let them know it was authorized.

If PP accepts what you submitted as proof of shipping to the payment address you will win regardless.  Is the address or postal code shown with the address?     

Keep in mind that if you don’t refund the buyer before PP makes it decision and you lose, they will charge you a $20 fee as well as refund the buyer from  your account.  If you refund before that time, there will be no $20 charge.

[gazer-sky]

Do you mean if address or postal code is shown on any of the receipts? No.
What is that $20 called? I am just curious what is the name of the fee so I can look into it and learn about it.
Thanks

[gazer-sky]

Ok I guess you are referring to https://www.paypal.com/us/brc/article/customer-disputes-claims-chargebacks-bank-reversals. If a seller must pay that and not the buyer that is one of the more ridiculous things online. A seller being responsible for item not received or not as described is one thing but for unauthorized transaction makes no sense.
I still don't know how I can charge someone on ebay without their consent so unauthorized transaction makes zero sense from a seller perspective any way.

[recped]

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@gazer-sky wrote:
Ok I guess you are referring to https://www.paypal.com/us/brc/article/customer-disputes-claims-chargebacks-bank-reversals. If a seller must pay that and not the buyer that is one of the more ridiculous things online. A seller being responsible for item not received or not as described is one thing but for unauthorized transaction makes no sense.
I still don't know how I can charge someone on ebay without their consent so unauthorized transaction makes zero sense from a seller perspective any way.

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The $20 fee is charged by the credit card issuer to PayPal who will a) cover it of the seller can provide the proof of shipping or b) pass it along to the seller if they can't.

FYI - PayPal offer the very best protection from Unauthorized Use of any payment processor.

As far as a "someone" changing something without consent, I guess you have never had your credit card info stolen or your PayPal account compromised. If you had then you would understand how the legitimate owner of a credit card would not authorize a transaction done by a third party using stolen information.

If you have proof of shipping it's almost impossible to lose an Unauthorized Use claim, if you don't have proof of shipping it's almost impossible to win.

[gazer-sky]

I think many are missing the point of a paypal verified address, we are mailing to a paypal verified address.
I stand by my statement that stolen credentials don't make any sense in terms of an ebay transaction, especially for a seller.

(And if paypal allow the verified address to be compromised - the thief changes the address and verifies it too! - then of course they have to cover any and all costs)

[gazer-sky]

I contacted the buyer, the buyer replied and seemed ok with the transaction and said will look into it. I guess I wait and hope this is fixed sooner rather than later, and if it drags on try to avoid the $20.

[pjcdn2005]

It's irrelevant if an address is verified or not. We are required to send it to the address given at payment which may or may not be verified. If I want to send a gift to a relative in another city, I can add that address before I pay..it isn't going to be verified but the seller would be covered with some seller protection if the item was delivered to that address.

I agree that we don't have any control over whether or not the payment has been authorized...we have to rely on ebay and paypal for that. But all Paypal require is that we show that we shipped the item to the payment address...even if we don't have a delivery scan..showing it was shipped will be enough to win an unauthorized credit card chargeback.

If you are worried about this happening again, there is a way to protect yourself if you are using an online service to print your label.  If you buy a small packet label through Shippo, Paypal or Snapship the label will have a scan number that the post office will scan when you take in that package.  If I buy  third party insurance for a small packet package, I print an extra copy of the label.  When I am the post office I get a receipt showing that the package was mailed and attach the receipt to the extra label. If they don't have a receipt I get them to stamp the label.  If the package gets lost and I have to claim insurance OR need proof of shipping for a credit card chargeback..that label and receipt should be enough proof.

[gazer-sky]

Thanks, good ideas.
When I was replying to the paypal case there was a tracking number field which I had to leave empty of course. The other ideas you gave are good and hopefully help because buying tracking from Canada Post for a non-business is not workable. Like I mentioned in one of my previous sales a 1kg jean jacket (package kept under the 90cm threshold by squishing the jacket) to send to Germany with tracking was quoted as $105. That's shaking my head level. To put that into perspective to go to Germany my self with one piece of 23 kg luggage included is currently (low season) 6 times that including return....

[reallynicestamps]

Like I mentioned in one of my previous sales a 1kg jean jacket (package kept under the 90cm threshold by squishing the jacket) to send to Germany with tracking was quoted as $105. That's shaking my head level.

One kilo to Germany shows as Tracked Packet International on my (printed out 2019) rate list as $58.59-$63.54.

I'm not clear where the 90cm comes into it.

I looked on here

https://www.canadapost.ca/cpotools/apps/far/business/findARate?execution=e2s2

which gives counter rates and does not allow for Small Business Solutions card holders, and it did not give Tracked Packet rate, although those go up to two kilos in weight.

[reallynicestamps]

@ypdc_dennis

Where can @gazer-sky  find the Tracked Parcel rates?

[ypdc_dennis]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

... one of my previous sales a 1kg jean jacket (package kept under the 90cm threshold by squishing the jacket) to send to Germany with tracking was quoted as $105. That's shaking my head level.

One kilo to Germany shows as Tracked Packet International on my (printed out 2019) rate list as $58.59-$63.54.  I'm not clear where the 90cm comes into it.

I looked on here

https://www.canadapost.ca/cpotools/apps/far/business/findARate?execution=e2s2

which gives counter rates and does not allow for Small Business Solutions card holders, and it did not give Tracked Packet rate ...

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Tracked Packet (and Small Packet) have a dimensional limit of 90 cm (L+W+H).

On your link I can see Tracked Packet to Germany as $68.15 (counter rate for 1kg).

Clicking on "Show minimum online savings" will display the Level 1 Solutions for Small Business rate of $57.25  (16% discount).

In comparison Small Packet Air is $39.49 (2% discount) for 1kg.

....

2kg weight to Germany:

Small Packet Air is $60.55 ($58.46 for level 1 SfSB)

Tracked Packet is $83.94 ($75.20 for level 1 SfSB)

...

Labels through Shippo can have extra third party insurance added above the $100 Canada Post Tracked Packet limit.

-..-

[gazer-sky]

Thanks for the info.
On the current case I guess I have to wait a while and try to avoid any fees near the 'end' of the case.

[gazer-sky]

So today paypal charged me the $20 chargeback too, ebay customer service tell me there is no issue with the buyer, he is active with same address and all too. The buyer even replied to me that he has contacted his bank to ask why, I have already told paypal all this last month.
Today I asked buyer to contact paypal but I am not sure I can expect anyone to stay on hold with paypal for me lol (I did suggest to the buyer to use paypal's call back option but still don't know if he will...)