We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions

Hi all,

 

With Canada Post rotating strikes continuing for the third week with no indication of a resolution between Canada Post and CUPW, the eBay Canada team are looking to hear from Canadian sellers about the impact of the strikes on their business.

 

Feedback and examples from our seller community helps us to better advocate for you. If you're comfortable with sharing your experience, we want to hear from you, whether you've felt an impact from the postal labour disruptions or not.

 

Some members of my team (someone other than myself or Tyler) may reach out to you via PM for more information after you post in this thread. We look forward to hearing your stories!

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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions

If their competitors wouldn't be so swanky, we could chose for different carriers. But Canada is a desert, in so many things. We stick to CP because we just don't have a chance to hook up with someone else here in the prairies. UPS and FedEx are outrageous expensive, Purolator not much better.

I ran a wholesale business in Germany for some years, before I moved to Canada. Back in Germany they send salesman to present you the best offer: UPS, FedEx, GLS, DHL, Hermes etc.
We paid for any shipment within Germany, up to 31kg, only 2.66 Euro FLAT !!!!!! GLS charged us 2.45 but only up to 2kg...
What I mean is, there is pretty much no competition in Canada. It is like communism. The government controls everything, the free market is almost not existing.
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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions

Yes I agree. European rates seem to be much more reasonable then here. Canada post is getting worse every year. Their prices are getting to a point where mail order in Canada will be nothing but a memory.

They also eliminated light packet and small packet ground options which were both cheaper. As well they eliminated insurance which was included with small packet until a few years ago. Now you have to buy tracked just to get coverage at ridiculous prices. Couriers are no option with their sky high rates. Canada needs to allow smaller private regional companies to compete against CP.

On youtube I watch some of the ebay sellers channels. The British ebayers have a lot of channels talking about their online selling. The prices and choices they have to ship items is amazing compared to Canada. Canadians really get a lousy deal when shipping.
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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions

Canada really cannot be compared against any other postal system due to being the largest, least-densely populated country in the world, next to Russia. The economies of scale available in UK or any other country in Europe or even the USA are simply impossible here due to geography and the thin line of populace along the southern border.
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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions

The size of Canada, from east to west  has a major effect on the cost of postage.

 

Most of the population of Canada is close to the Canada-US border,  with settlement  at a very low level the closer we get to the 60th parallel  and then up into Canada's Arctic regions.

 

The only way to ship to Nunavut is via air mail.

 

If a courier service has to ship to a remote area of Canada, the parcel is transferred to Canada Post

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and then let us compare the size of Canada to other countries in this world

 

Canada is about half the size of Russia and only a bit larger than China or the US.  Canada is the second largest country in the world....

 

The US has the advantage of being south of Canada, with a moderate climate  that allows people to live more comfortably than in Canada.  The Rockies are a minor barrier in the US, compared to Canada.

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Canada Post  has to face a lot of negatives... Canada post does its job.

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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions

Have you ever driven from Toronto to Winnipeg....  Northwestern Ontario gives the impression it is a big empty space,  a few roads and lots, and lots of trees, with only a few places people have chosen to live... No really big cities.

 

and then from Calgary to Vancouver ..... The Rocky Mountains are a big divide, a big empty space  from Calgary to Vancouver.

 

My experience has been to travel via automobile... from Ottawa to Winnipeg... and then... from Edmonton to Vancouver..

 

These are the realities that Canada Post to deal with 12 months of each year, rain... snow  and finally shine  in summer.

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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions

It was initially my choice to take my store off vacation and start selling on December 1.

 

After all that was read by me....  the conclusion is that I must wait until ?????

 

I need a good shot of enthusiasm....  That disappears every time I read about CUPW.

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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions

Yes I do realize that. Figured all that out a long time ago. I didn't get a university degree by being stupid. However my point remains Canadian sellers have less options and higher shipping costs.

Please read my previous post again and check out sellers in other countries on youtube. They can build vibrant profitable businesses much easier than Canadians because their postal systems do not cripple them.
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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions


@universal-solder wrote:
If their competitors wouldn't be so swanky, we could chose for different carriers. But Canada is a desert, in so many things. We stick to CP because we just don't have a chance to hook up with someone else here in the prairies. UPS and FedEx are outrageous expensive, Purolator not much better.
I ran a wholesale business in Germany for some years, before I moved to Canada. Back in Germany they send salesman to present you the best offer: UPS, FedEx, GLS, DHL, Hermes etc.
We paid for any shipment within Germany, up to 31kg, only 2.66 Euro FLAT !!!!!! GLS charged us 2.45 but only up to 2kg...
What I mean is, there is pretty much no competition in Canada. It is like communism. The government controls everything, the free market is almost not existing.

Utter nonsense.

Germany has a population density of 232 people per square kilometre.

The UK goes a bit better at 272 people per square kilometre.

While Canada comes in at an average of 4 people per square kilometre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density

 

The "free" market decides that there is no money to be made in transporting stuff in low density areas unless the prices are high. Many Canadian cities have lots of small transport companies because the local population can support them.

 

-..-

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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions


@forester_studios wrote:
.... eliminated light packet and small packet ground options which were both cheaper. As well they eliminated insurance which was included with small packet until a few years ago. Now you have to buy tracked just to get coverage at ridiculous prices. Couriers are no option with their sky high rates. Canada needs to allow smaller private regional companies to compete against CP.

You do not need to buy tracked to get insurance coverage. You can use Small Packet Air with third party insurance (available through Shippo).

...

Private regional companies can already compete with Canada Post. The only restriction is on lettermail inside Canada. Everything else is wide open.

-..-

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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions

What sellers in other countries can do with what’s available only to them (and not us) is not as important as what we can do with what’s available to us. Postage cost is what it is in Canada and there’s no solution to it other than to make it somehow work. I don’t see any sense in pining for what I could have if only I moved to the UK unless I was contemplating a move to the UK. But, by all means, do what you feel works best for you.
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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions

I was simply making the point that being an ebay seller in Canada is more challenging due to the realities of our postal system. I have been sorting stock and listing throughout the postal strike fiasco because, like yourself, I need the income to pay the bills. I certainly didn't need the stress of the strike in Q4 and was attempting to point out that the toxic reality at CP makes a challenging postal reality even worse. I didn't intend to annoy or upset my fellow sellers.
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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions

Please be assured no one is upset or annoyed with you, a fellow seller. We’re in this together and I think we’re all as sellers annoyed about basically the same thing: postal strife at the worst possible time for our bottom line.
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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions

Yes, absolutely right. Sellers need to offer moal support to one another in this difficult time.

Did you hear about how members from the BC Federation of Labour were blocking CP trucks from leaving the Pacific sorting center? It was on local news here in BC. I couldn't believe how militant and scary some of these people are. One guy said something to the affect of them trying to defend peoples right to earn a living! I haven't laughed so loud in some time when he said it. The delusional antics displayed by union members makes me fear for the future of CP. I will try to post a link to it tomorrow if I can find it.
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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions

Oh, yes. I heard.

Peaceful protest is one thing.

Blocking roads is another. Even people high on self-righteous indignation will eventually find some other itch to scratch. They just need to be distracted.

Or perhaps the time has come for small business people and online sellers to become militant. Since we have nothing better to do while our families go hungry because we can’t rely on the service for which we pay.
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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions

My choice to take my store off vacation  has been adjusted.  Initially the date for this action was December 1, 2018.   After having read about the residual  effect of the strike  on the slow, very slow passage of mail in the postal system, that date has been changed.

 

The anxiety and frustration of watching mail move..... slowly ... through the postal system  is not an acceptable option

 

There will be a lot more inventory added to the store....  

 

My next date for taking the store off vacation will most likely be January 1, 2019.  This date will be the beginning  of a new world of selling  on eBay for me...

 

The effect of the strike on the passage of parcels through the postal system will be monitored.

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This will be done because my selling on eBay is there to keep me busy and keep the brain in a very functional mode.  Sales... Yes...   but it is my choice to continue to do something more than sit back and dream about things.....  Age is starting to catch up to me... Ask my knees....

 

 

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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions

As eBay sellers we must continue to document the residual effect of this strike.

 

and then...

 

Early in 2019  our focus must be to have the Government understand something like this strike  and then the  effect on Canada Post in the weeks after the strike, must never happen again.

 

At some time in the future the Postal Union must eventually acknowledge  what the effect  of this strike has been.

 

 

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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions

My store will continue on vacation.

 

People have been able to view listings in my store.  Views have been noted for  listings uploaded to eBay after the store was put on vacation.

 

About 5  people have indicated an interest in buying  some of my listed books.  One person, who lives in the Toronto area  has an interest in several books.  

 

It is with the understanding that there is a major backlog of parcels in the Toronto area, that I have chosen  not to take the store off vacation.  There is no way I will purposefully send a parcel into the Toronto mess, whether that mess is real or otherwise.

 

The information for recent purchases on eBay  is that there is a potential for item not received claims.  The level of anxiety with  40 or more parcels in the postal system, and a potential for up to 40  ...Item not Received ... claims would not be acceptable.

 

This postal strike was a mess and after the back to work order, the postal system continues to be a mess that  could be in place for weeks and months

 

 

 

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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions

I have been a loyal customer of Ebay since 2005. However, the postal strike is taking a toll on my health and I have had to make a difficult decision. I will be transitioning to Etsy and using digital delivery. I have a huge selection of graphics which I can sell and deliver via email. No more worrying about mail strikes. I will keep my ebay store but on a much reduced level. Ebay loses on fees and Canada Post loses on postage.
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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions


@momcqueen wrote:
ypdc_dennis said in an earlier post on another thread (I think) that the legislation itself was not deemed unconstitutional but that dictating the wages was the part that crossed the line. If I understand that correctly.

I don't know how ypdc_dennis got to that conclusion, but it's incorrect.  Perhaps he was remembering that the Corporation's dictating wages was what caused the impasse that led to back-to-work legislation.

 

I decided (since I have time with my store closed, and I used to be a legal researcher anyway) to read through the Reasons for Judgment of Justice Firestone, and it was clearly a declaratory judgment of unconstitutionality.  I know you like cites, so I'll reproduce the summary of the Judgment here: 

 

"For the reasons that follow I find that:
(a) the Act violates the rights to freedom of association and freedom of expression under
ss. 2(d) and 2(b) of the Charter.
(b) such violations of the rights to freedom of association and freedom of expression are
not saved under s. 1 of the Charter.
(c) the Act is unconstitutional and of no force and effect. Such declaration of invalidity is
to be applied retroactively.
(d) the applicants are not entitled to a s. 24(1) Charter remedy in addition to the
declaration of invalidity granted under s. 52(1) of The Constitution Act, 1982."

 

Here is Justice Firestone's summary of the legislation in question: 

"The Act is back-to-work legislation. Its key provisions mandated the resumption and continuation of mail delivery services, and imposed a final offer selection process of arbitration (FOS) for resolving the dispute between Canada Post and CUPW. It also contained an enforcement mechanism; non-compliance with its provisions would constitute a summary conviction offence punishable by fines accruing daily."

 

It's interesting to look at the whole context at the time this challenge was brought by CUPW (in 2015).  It related to legislation passed in 2011, when the Harper government was still in power.  This case was heard in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice in 2015, and at that time Liberals were in power in Ontario (under Kathleen Wynne).   Justice Firestone was appointed in April, 2013 by Rob Nicholson, the PC federal Minister of Justice at the time.   I don't know the Justice's politics, but I expect that with Harper near the end of his term (ended in November, 2015), Firestone, J. was keeping an eye on politics as well as the Charter.  

 

Secondly, and just as importantly, this was a retroactive declaration only, and was never challenged by the government in the higher courts (including the Supreme Court of Canada).  I expect the new Liberal government's lawyers advised letting sleeping dogs lie, and the CUPW lawyers told union leadership they'd live to fight another day with this precedent (and moral victory) in their pockets.  It's notable that the Court in the above matter refused to grant monetary damages under s.24(1) of the Charter (point (d) above).  

 

So here we are.  Will CUPW challenge the legislation again?  The problem is that by the time these challenges get to onto the court dockets, the situation itself is long past.  It would only do CUPW immediate good if they could get an emergency declaration or injunction against the government, an unlikely prospect.  No doubt federal government lawyers know that too.  

 

One thing I did do while I was checking this case was a bit of online research on whether any private corporation (aside from CPC of course) had ever sued CUPW (or unions in analogous situations) for damages, as I suggested might be feasible earlier in this (or another) thread.  There are a couple of interesting cases that are tangentially related, but nothing on point that has been reported. 

 

That doesn't mean it has never been done; the vast majority of cases settle and of those that actually get to court, the majority never get written up in the legal reports.  A full search of all Judgments in all registries across the country would be necessary to definitively answer the question.  Which means lawyers and registry agents.  Which means money.  Which means having a small business organization with the money to do it. 

 

And no, sorry, I'm out of the game, I'm retired.  But I'd join any independent organization (i.e. not eBay) willing to try it the next time there's a strike, heaven forbid.  We should never forget that eBay's stake in this issue is getting the strike resolved so they can earn their fees from us, not help us recoup our losses.  🙂

 

 

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Re: We want to hear from you—Canada Post labour disruptions


@vivian5612 wrote:
I have been a loyal customer of Ebay since 2005. However, the postal strike is taking a toll on my health and I have had to make a difficult decision. I will be transitioning to Etsy and using digital delivery. I have a huge selection of graphics which I can sell and deliver via email. No more worrying about mail strikes. I will keep my ebay store but on a much reduced level. Ebay loses on fees and Canada Post loses on postage.

Yep, exactly what I did 4 years ago, although I managed to keep my eBay store open.  Its future is now in real jeopardy, I've lost my usual "busy" autumn season entirely this year due to the strike.  It's too late now to make it up, and I'm not willing to trust anything to the postal system at the moment, so my store will stay closed for another month.  It's an utter disaster. 

 

Do be aware that Etsy increased its fees recently.  Ever since they went public a couple of years ago, they've been acting more and more like eBay, looking for any place they can scoop up extra cash.  Their attempt at launching a parallel selling channel failed, and now they're back to the idea of offering stand-alone websites for their sellers, as well as store levels -- all for a price. 

 

(By the way, I've just noticed -- Post #200 -- do I get a badge?  grinning)

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