eBay keeps getting worse. Finally had enough of the absorbent Fees.

[daddyphatsacks]

Since the move away from Paypal my "Variable Fees" are now at 14.55%. They used to be 10% + 2.5-3% total.

Shipping Internationally comes with an extra arbitrary "Fee" bringing it up to 15%. Another bs cash grab.

Final Value Fee... Another cash grab.

eBay adds the Tax on the buyers side from his home country but then charges you in your local country with no option to pass the fees on to the buyer. Not sure why we even get double Taxed, other services don't do this but hey, it's eBay. Good luck getting any decent customer service.

I don't sell small nick nacks, so my last sale was 120+ days ago. I am now dropped down to casual seller and have a 2 week hold on my funds after being a memeber since 2009. I mainly sell music and there are much better avenues for this such as discogs.com (8% fee).

Just figured i'd vent my frusteration if anyone actually reads these things.

eBay is a joke. I will be making no new music related listings on here.

[reallynicestamps]

You seem to be selling in the Music category.

Here are the published fees for non-Store sellers.

Store fees are slightly lower, but with so few listings and fewer sales the monthly subscription would be a waste.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/fees-credits-invoices/selling-fees?id=4822

Your first 250 listings are free. Only sales are charged Final Value Fees.

Most occasional sellers have never worked retail, and fewer have worked on the retail management side, so they don't realize that it is Standard Practice for payment processors (like Managed Payments and Paypal, to say nothing of credit cards ) to charge not on the line items but on the bottom line payment being processed.

This has been the norm since at least the use of credit cards became widespread in the early '80s.

We don't pay taxes to foreign governments. Those "internet" sales taxes  are run through our invoices and we do pay the same fee on them as we do on shipping. Bloody annoying too.  But again, the fees are on the total being processed.

We do pay GST (etc) on our eBay fees. Goods and Services tax on eBay's services.

You may find you make more sales if you use more Item Specifics. Those are aimed not at your customers but at Search Engines (Google) and the belief is that they help customers who never thought of eBay as a source to find what they want here, instead of discogs or etsy.

To get your money sooner, since you are an occasional seller, you might try moving your Managed Payment transfers to daily, assuming that you have been using the default of weekly/Tuesdays. That would mean that instead of a Wednesday sale (or ended Hold) being transferred a week later, it would be transferred on Thursday. Then you only have the bank delay while they credit your account.  YMMV.

You might also ask to have the Holds removed based on your excellent track record. We can only see your feedback and it looks good. Don't bother with the phone subcontractors in Utah. They have no authority.

Try one of these.

https://twitter.com/askebay?lang=en



https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness/



https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/How-do-I-contact-Customer-Support/m-p/32016431#M1783851

You might also try using Promoted Listings- which allows you to choose your fee and which are only charged if they work.

And Best Offer might attract a few eyeballs. Be sure to use the parameters to automatically refuse lowballers.

[daddyphatsacks]

Thanks for the info, although that doesn't change the fact that the fees went from 10% + 2-3% when Paypal was handling it to 14.55% + "international fee", so 15% total. Compare that to a site like discogs which is entirely geared to music sales and I can sell for 8% fees, no funny extra charges. I don't mind paying 13% for the wider audience, but i'm tired of getting nickel and dimed. I'm also annoyed that its a "Variable Rate". These new charges used to never come up when everything was being done via Paypal. There was no "International Fee" surcharge pre-eBay taking over.

Moving my managed transfers to daily wont help me, they told me funds wil be held until the buyer recieved my items as if it were my first ever sale. I've used the online contact chat to talk to someone who was useless and I also called in today. How many calls should I have to make to solve this? Who knows when eBay will drop me back down again randomly again. So much headache.

Before I made the forced transition from Paypal to eBay, I could send funds to my bank account and have them the next day. With eBay its 2-3 days, but that was before they decided to change that to when the customer receives the item. My items are higher ticket, so I won't have super frequent sales as I do fixed price / make offer not auctions. You'd think 100% positive feedback would count for something but I guess not. It took me a while to get to instant payments, I don't want to start over and wait weeks for every sale again. Like I said, I think i'm finally fed up with eBay enough to stop making new listings. Definitley fed up enough to take time to make a post here.

As far as GST, i'm not paying a services tax on eBay's service. I'm paying my Province's GST Tax on the whole amount of my sale out of my pocket after the buyer already paid his local Tax that gets tacked on. This does not happen anywhere else online I sell things. When you go to Starbucks, you get your bill and the GST always gets passed on to the consumer. Why am I paying GST for an item someone in a different country bought and paid Tax on already? That makes my 15% in fees up to 20% (would be much higher if I lived in a different province).

So tell me why is it worth while to continue using eBay when there are alternatives where I do not have to deal with any of these dumb issues? Maybe for non-music items, but is the larger audience really worth 12% more in fees plus a hold on the funds?

[recped]

although that doesn't change the fact that the fees went from 10% + 2-3% when Paypal was handling it to 14.55%

No it doesn't but the fact is the increased rate for Media (2%) happened BEFORE most .ca sellers moved from PayPal to Managed Payments.

 There was no "International Fee" surcharge pre-eBay taking over.

Sorry but you are wrong on that. PayPal added a cross-border fee in 2001 PRIOR to being sold to eBay. PayPal never  showed it as a separate line item and apparently most people never actually analyzed the fees they were paying to PayPal

Moving my managed transfers to daily wont help me, they told me funds wil be held until the buyer recieved my items as if it were my first ever sale

eBay now considers anyone who has not sold in the past year or is a "casual" seller (casual is loosely less than the amount to have new seller holds taken off). From your feedback it looks like you have sold only a handful of things in the past year (higher value but it's the number of transaction that end the holds)

As far as GST, i'm not paying a services tax on eBay's service. I'm paying my Province's GST Tax on the whole amount of my sale out of my pocket after the buyer already paid his local Tax that gets tacked on.

I can't make any sense of this, why would you pay sales tax out of your pocket? If you are registered to collect, you charge buyers, they pay you and you report to the CRA. You do in fact pay GST on the fees eBay charges, If you are registered for GST that is a refundable credit.

The taxes eBay collects on sales to the UK, EU, USA, AU, NZ & NO do not go into your hands, eBay remits them to the proper State or Country, you do now pay fvf's on that amount and yes when selling to the EU/UK with their high VAT rates the fees do sting.

Bottom line: If you know of alternatives where you can make sales for the same prices then head on over. I also sell in media so I understand the impact of fees. I know the alternatives that are out there, for me it's not worth the effort for the possible incremental increase in revenue.

[daddyphatsacks]

My fees pre move to eBay was never 15%. I'd calculate it by hand every now and then. It was always ~13%. Guess I was just lucky.

"Cross-border fee" Call it what you want, it's still a total bull**bleep** charge. Its like a 'convenience fee" charge on buying concert tickets online. A blatent cash grab that no other service charges.

I have definitely made sales in the past year. Plus, my point stands. Why place a hold on a seller with 100% feedback who's sold for years, who's had no issues at all? Its dumb. They just want an excuse to hold on to peoples money so they can make interest on it. 

I can't make any sense of this, why would you pay sales tax out of your pocket?

^ Exactly my point. Why am I paying sales tax out of my pocket?

Bottom line: There are better services for media available. It may not be worth it to you, but i'm sick of dealing with eBay. That forced transition was almost the end for me. I think i'm finally done with the service for media items anyway. Next time I want to sell some used underwear or something, i'll be sure to think of eBay.

[mrdutch1001]

My "absorbent" fees are rolled into the price of the items... (over the past 2 years I have been increasing my prices)...buyers are still buying...

Yes , there are other sites out there and you get what you pay for...

some sites are far worse than eBay...

I also sell on other sites just as I have been doing for the past 14 years...there is no site that will do everything a seller wants, there is no site that will work for everyone and everything...there is no "perfect" site...

[recped]

---

@daddyphatsacks wrote:

I can't make any sense of this, why would you pay sales tax out of your pocket?

^ Exactly my point. Why am I paying sales tax out of my pocket?

---

Well you are the only who can answer that since you are the only seller who is covering sales tax out of your own pocket.

I could care less if you stay or go and eBay probably has similar feelings. I only post to correct misinformation that is read by others.

[andrea2361]

I too am leaving and have been with them since 2022. Not worth selling on Ebay with all the new policies. Customer service is garbage. Their fees have just gotten out of control and they do not have the sellers interests at heart at all.  Time to go and let them fall flat on their face!

[alacar-8]

If you have been here since 2022, then you have been here for less than 3 months and if you leave, I don't see them falling on their faces! Just saying!  Wishing you the best on your next venture.

[brettjet38]

[intimewithmusic]

Preamble: My appologies. I'm unable to read all of this right now so I'll confine comments to yours. 

Hi. Some of your suggestions may be helpful but as someone who sells one of a kind music items mostly to international buyers some of you may have misunderstood some of @daddyphatsacks  complaints. They form part of my plea as well for eBay to lower fees.  As we all know from reading the Winter Seller Update, fees are going up March 30. 

With respect to your comment @reallynicestamps and @recped 

@daddyphatsacks 

"eBay adds the Tax on the buyers side from his home country but then charges you in your local country with no option to pass the fees on to the buyer."

eBay charges us final value fees on the amount of  State tax they collect in the USA. For example Item sells in Washington for $99. State tax added is $9.62. Final value fees paid are calculated on $108.62. We are paying fees on state tax. I don't see that as a fair deal. Before that started eBay said the cost of tax collection/remittance would be covered by eBay.

 "You may find you make more sales if you use more Item Specifics. Those are aimed not at your customers but at Search Engines (Google) and the belief is that they help customers who never thought of eBay as a source to find what they want here, instead of discogs or etsy."

This gets a very weakened "maybe" from me. Most of his stuff is not item specific but "buyer specific" or "platform specific".  Let's say you have a store that's a dealer for Fender guitars. Someone trades in a brand new Martin guitar. The Fender dealer may not want to advertise to the entire planet he's/she's selling a new guitar without being a Martin dealer.  Just sell it quielty. To translate to "eBayese", not all sellers want to put stuff on Google. Mr. Phatsacks's buyers are already on eBay or discogs as this is where we live. 

For music products I sell that are similar I do put in as many item specifics as possible but just as a protocall as they usually don't apply. I recently listed a Lot of 8 items that came directly from Mushroom Records when Heart, Chilliwack, Doucette, Ian Mathews etc were recording the iconic songs we all hear daily. Item specifics on that listing? No use whatsoever. View it yourself: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/294879910113

For some of Mr. Phatsack's listings the best option is to list them and wait a week. Look at the vews and the number of watchers. If the count is low you change the keywords in the title. It's much different than selling something someone else has listed. Your buyer is already on the platform. If there are no bites, you change the bait on the hook. (Key words) You don't pull up your line and drive to another lake. 

As a buyer I hate Google links because in our business of buying and selling one offs Google links can be years old and almost  always lead to items no longer available. 

@reallynicestamps 

"You might also try using Promoted Listings"

  This is another difference for sellers of music memorabilia. It's sort of what tyler@ebay  and I have been chatting about (albeit one way chatting) in the Weekly Sessions.  In answer to my "selling on the high fees" comment that sort of sounds seabound.... Tyler made the point "You don't have to use promoted listings".  

For most of   @daddyphatsacks  listings I would never use promoted listings. What's the point? PL fees are to move items up the list when they are among groups of similar items. Why would you need to promte this?

"Ram Squad - Unreleased Mastered Advance - Philly Rap"

     For  those of us selling Music Memorabilia  (non renewable resource) our buyers are swimming around in Lake eBay. We have to jerry rig our listings to even work and as long as buyers swin in it we'll figure it out and fish but as Mr. Phatsacks said the cost of fishing licence is high. 

   Higher on March 30. 

[reallynicestamps]

We are paying fees on state tax. I don't see that as a fair deal. 

@intimewithmusic 

I thought you had a B&M store? You do know that you are paying your credit card processor not just on your sales but also on the sales taxes you collect and remit?

The excuse, and it has been the Standard Practice for decades, is that the fee is on the entire payment not just on the purchase or on the shipping or on the taxes. And most of those taxes are goods and services.

Let's say you have a store that's a dealer for Fender guitars. Someone trades in a brand new Martin guitar. The Fender dealer may not want to advertise to the entire planet he's/she's selling a new guitar without being a Martin dealer.  Just sell it quielty.

I'm not clear on the problem here. Frankly I don't think many of us have a brand to protect. To our customers, they bought from eBay.

That an eBay shop mostly sells Fenders but occasionally sells Martins should not be a turnoff to the Fender fan. It might turn off a Martin collector who thinks the seller doesn't know or respect his faves. (To be pedantic, the trade in would not be a "new" Martin in any case.)

We do have an account to protect and we do have repeat customers. But it's not like we are internationally known like the House of Guitars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl8ThZ4Nnjk

[intimewithmusic]

---

@reallynicestamps wrote:

We are paying fees on state tax. I don't see that as a fair deal. 

@intimewithmusic 

I thought you had a B&M store? You do know that you are paying your credit card processor not just on your sales but also on the sales taxes you collect and remit?

The excuse, and it has been the Standard Practice for decades, is that the fee is on the entire payment not just on the purchase or on the shipping or on the taxes. And most of those taxes are goods and services.

Let's say you have a store that's a dealer for Fender guitars. Someone trades in a brand new Martin guitar. The Fender dealer may not want to advertise to the entire planet he's/she's selling a new guitar without being a Martin dealer.  Just sell it quielty.

I'm not clear on the problem here. Frankly I don't think many of us have a brand to protect. To our customers, they bought from eBay.

That an eBay shop mostly sells Fenders but occasionally sells Martins should not be a turnoff to the Fender fan. It might turn off a Martin collector who thinks the seller doesn't know or respect his faves. (To be pedantic, the trade in would not be a "new" Martin in any case.)

We do have an account to protect and we do have repeat customers. But it's not like we are internationally known like the House of Guitars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl8ThZ4Nnjk

---

[intimewithmusic]

Hi.

  Thank you for your input. Yes, I had a brick and mortar for 20 years and ran some others. 

1. To be clear I was talking about fees that eBay charges Canadian sellers here in Canada on  taxes that are collected and remitted in a foreign country. A few years ago when eBaydotcom introduced state tax collection they promised sellers they would look after collection and remission which they do. They also promised the cost involved would be born by ebay not sellers. 

  All of the sudden eBay CANADA is charging Canadian sellers a fee on USA state tax collected by eBayUSA.  Why are CANADIAN sellers paying for USA tax collection/remittance  when at the offset eBayUSA promised all sellers there would be no extra fees for tax c/r?

 2.  RE: Credit Card Processing Fees:  Please re-read my post. This has nothing to do with credit card processors. I never complained about fees for credit processing . I'm not sure why you made that accusation. You're correct. In B&M I administered CC payment processing fees for decades. I do not begrudge eBay for passing on processing charges to sellers as long as they also pass on the mega discounts they get from the credit card companies. Your post stating I said otherwise is fake news. 

3.   This one is my fault. As dealerships we sign authorized dealer contracts with manufacturers.  After reviewing @daddyphatsacks  inventory I automatically "branded" it because that's my job.  His brand is abstract. Nevertheless it's a brand and my analogy  confused you.  I translated his brand into McDonalds or Heinz to provide a common viewpoint but it was out of context. He is selling non renewable historic archives sort of like selling stamps. Really nice music memorabilia. 

That said my meaning was very clear. We fish in Lake eBay because that is where our fish are. Google is an ocean of dead links and scavengers.  Prescious archives, be them stamps or master recordings, find better owners in smaller pools.

4. I'm asking eBay Canada to stop raising seller fees and lower them and give us the same listing features enjoyed by USA sellers such as more choices of eBay branded merchandise, enhanced listing, easy listing videos etc. It is evident sellers are leaving. the ebay quarterly report indicated 8% of eBay sellers abandoned "Lake eBay" last year.

5.  @reallynicestamps Why would you use this HOG youtube link thinking it may be "negative feedback" to sellers of music memorabilia?

It's dissapointing but I'm glad you did.

"We do have an account to protect and we do have repeat customers. But it's not like we are internationally known like the House of Guitars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl8ThZ4Nnjk"

May need fact checking is this is all from my personal recall...

The House Of Guitars (HOG) in Rochester New York is owned by Armand Schaubroeck and his brother. Armand is 78. He also has an underground radio show in NY. (Armand Spins") The link you offer is one of his HOG TV commercials from the late 70's. It's unfortunate you see it as ridicule: 

 Armand, at 17, went to jail for a multitude of robberies. He was released after 2 years from a 4 year sentence. Upon his release he went back to live with his mother. At that time the Beatles were breaking. No  US music store had the intruments they were playing. They were from many different manufacturers. Rickenbacker, Vox, Ludwig etc. During that time Armand and his brother found a way to get those instruments. They sold them from his mother's basement. 

One day the phone rang. Armand's mom answered. She shouts to Armand who is in an obviously noisy basement.... "Armand...phone." Armand shouts back... "Who is it?" Mrs. Schaubroeck "Some guy. He says his name is Andy Warhol." 

Long story after that @reallynicestamps . Armand and andy were working on his life story at the time of Warhols attempted assisination in his gallery. One of the most famous of all time. That was just before your "funny bunny" link. 

The House of Guitars became the largest music store on the planet. That a hard feat. I worked for the largest drum store on the planet, Drums Only which lost it's brick and mortar battle.  HOG is still open today. They put out a lot of wacky commercials then. I like this one best. It's a band you may not have heard of "The Ramones". They needed money to buy a gutar and did this commercial for Armand.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAw0XrmBsdw&ab_channel=eyeh8cbs

Armand is still spinning songs at 77.  You should have a listen.

6. FV Fees on shipping: Guess what?

Shipping cost are about to skyrocket. Energy crisis ...Canada Post is rejecting merchandise sold in Lettermail and Letterpost. 

  I think that it's great to be challenged but I see Canada eBay Lake a business and not a contest.  We are all in the same kettle of fish. 

ITWM

[marnotom!]

My understanding is that FVF percentages were dropped when Managed Payments was first unleashed to compensate somewhat for the FVF covering taxes charged to buyers. I think @recped did or quoted some number crunching that suggested that 7% or so was a threshold of sorts in that a sale that involved taxes charged below that rate would see a modest savings in overall fees over the old PayPal-based system while sales with tax charges of above that rate would see a slight increase.

As a “marketplace facilitator,” eBay has to include taxes with the sale according to the laws of the buyer’s jurisdiction. As eBay’s FVF are charged on the full transaction value, all sellers are subject to this so it’s not just a “picking on Canada” thing.

With the upcoming fee increase comes at least one mitigating factor in that seller-initiated partial refunds will now also see partial fee credits. If you don’t plan on issuing partial refunds in the future, this may not be a thing for you. On the other hand, it may give you more incentive to try this. There may be other minor perks coming with the fee percentage adjustment that I haven’t taken on board yet.

[intimewithmusic]

The shirt Armand'is wearing in that Easter bunny commercial says "Kill Me" and has a target. I'm not sure but I think it's a reference from the Valerie Solanas's attempted assasination and shooting of Andy Warhol in his gallery that happened when Armand was negotiating details for a musical and a movie that andy wanted to do of Armand Schaubroeck's amazing life. When Warhol heard of what Armand endured in life and in prison somehow he found a phone number for Armand. He called. His mother answered. So the relationship blossomed but ended abruptly when Warhol was shot.  Armand had to fend for himself. At his mother's insistance he had to relocate from her basement. he moved to a temperary location but got kicked out for the noise.  In the 70's the brothers bought a heritage building at 645 Titus Ave in rochester NY. HOG is still there. Same location. Same owners. 

The House of Giutars went on to becoming the largest and one of the few remaining brick and mortar music stores still in existance.  As a fellow store owner I respect his endurance. As Canadians we should be  thankful for our rich musical heritage. When Jerry Doucette released "Mama Let Him Play" in 1978 he toured the earth. although Jerry has retired (more or less) from live concerts mostly due to Covid crippling all of us in music he is still a famous guitar collector. Jerry had so many vintage Gretsch guitars that Gretsh had to approach him to replicate past designs. 

In 1978 when Doucette was considered one of the world's greatest guitar players our own Canadian guitar hero premiered "Mama Let Him Play" in New York. As a collector of guitars he visited HOG.  My friend was his stage and tour manager and BF. The House Of Guitars honored Doucette's accomplishments  with shirts and other memorabilia. Armand Schaubrouck is one of the few remaining living cult legends: Here is a very rare example of his gift to Doucette:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/304356769192?hash=item46dd13bda8:g:H~0AAOSwOpFh72tW

It's important us aging Canadians don't lose sight of the sacrifices our musican icons made. Typically they started learning their instruments at 6-8 years old and practice until their passing. Further to that they taught countless as have I in my own practise and administering many music schools. 

As "older folks" the music and the music society we enjoyed in our youth will never be the same. It's not coming back. It's not renewable. It's imprtant to give credit where credit is due. Mr. Schaunbroeck is certainly no joke. If you listen to "Armand Spins" you will appreciate his contribution to helping New York youth avoid his own early choices. 

[reallynicestamps]

House of Guitars ads turned up late at night when I was in university in Ottawa. It's the only guitar business I know-  thank you by the way for the background info on the business owners.  Actually come to think of it, the Folklore Centre in Ottawa South was also more or less in my head. I think I bought an instrument for my kid there circa 1985.

HOG was one of the joys of late night movies in our commune, along with Monty Python. We'd get upwards of 30 people over for "popcorn and eggrolls" on Python nights.

I don't think HoG is a joke. I think it was a National Treasure.

To my mind, there is little or no difference between Paypal, Managed Payments, Moneris, and Adyen. They are all payment processors for a variety of credit cards. That's why I lump them together. And they all have the same Standard Practice, charging their fees on the customer's entire payment rather than splitting it up.

EBay did at one point promise to pay the fees on processing taxes. And at one point, Paypal did not charge fees to sellers.

[intimewithmusic]

Hi. 

  Thank you . We appreciate your input. Over my decade as an eBay seller I have administered only one refund. it wasn't at the buyer's request. I sold a fully functional shortwave radio to a buyer. Upon receipt he said he did not  have shortwave signals at his location and the radio did not work. 

At the time of listing I knew shortwave is something buyers can use as leverage. There is only a small group using the wavelength. Knowing that I listed the radio as "Not working, For parts Only". 

It was likely an opportunist trying for a payment reduction.

Rather than argue or negotiate I sent him a return label and refunded 100% of his initial payment. 

Obviously I'm fine to accept returns.  I recommended that one. It's the only one I've had in a decade. 

In 2021 over 20% of everything purchased from online platforms was returned.  Of course that's  due to free returns in the most risky categories such as clothing  from online platforms like Amazon and other platforms that, to be competitive offer free returns on clothing and fashion.

The fee reduction you speak of will not benefit sellers of collectibles, ephemera and other low return pride of ownership, one of a kind items.  ( Unless they return an item improperly packed.) For sellers with low returns the benefit you suggest  factored into an annual  P&L  statement is negligible. 

[intimewithmusic]

eBay instigated partial refunds. I think this was their idea to offer sellers  a chance to reconcile with disgruntled buyers.

Then eBay chose to withhold a seller's FV's on the complete initial purchase. Sellers sucked that up and still tried to  offer exemplatory customer service by refunding and not getting their FVs back.

This  fee recovery for partial refunds isn't a benefit. It's is a "given" that should not have been taken away in the first place. 

:"seller-initiated partial refunds will now also see partial fee credits. If you don’t plan on issuing partial refunds in the future, this may not be a thing for you. On the other hand, it may give you more incentive to try this. "

[intimewithmusic]

"With the upcoming fee increase comes at least one mitigating factor in that seller-initiated partial refunds will now also see partial fee credits."

After giving this some thought I was thinking about returns and not partial refunds for overpaid international shipping. I did a couple of those in the last 6 months. On January 15 I did a complete refund of $40 for a 90's NOS Judds shirt.

Before shipping it I found it had suffered fiber damage from an acidic dye used sometimes in the 90s. If the shirt had been washed it would have neutralized the acid but it was still new in package. I phoned the buyer (South Carolina) and explained the situation. She still wanted the shirt so I kept her shipping cost and shipped it and refunded her the full amount she had paid for it. 

I never received a FV fee refund from any of those transactions and was wondering. Now that I read your post I understand this  process doesn't start until March 30 2022. 

Thanks!