eBay

**oldcherrylane** · ‎05-12-2015

Recently tried to come back as a Seller on ebay after quitting for a few years from sheer disgust at how biased it is in favour of the buyer. They have to be protected & as a BUYER myself I'm all for it but does ebay have to make it so easy for them to cheat & ruin a seller with just a lie?

A fellow bought a makeup primer without asking one single question. I gave him great feedback & 8 free samples as I was so grateful for his business. Upon receipt he claimed the colour was off in my photo. In order to keep him happy & avoid the dreaded negative feedback he got no argument from me. I accepted the blame. Said I would refund him. Then I called CS only to learn that nowadays I have to pay the return shipping as well. I let the buyer know that I had agreed so readily to the return only because I didn't know about the new returns policy & would he accept a partial refund instead. Told him to name any amount he thought was fair. Advised him that this neutral primer was invisible once applied & could be worn by anyone. Even so he refused my offer & told me not to worry about the return shipping. ?? He said he hadn't opened the bottle and it was still in Brand New condition. I was prepared to give him all of his money back plus the RS.

What he actually returned to me however was a bottle that had 1/4 of the product missing & damaged packaging to boot! In Canada we cannot sell USED cosmetics so I can't even re-list it now. He knows & I know that he pulled a switch on me! Either that or he needed it for some occasion and now that he was done with it he thought he would get someone else (like me) to pay for it all. My first email was to ask him if he had any explanation for this as it's possible it was an unintentional mistake. I included photos showing the usage & damage as well as his packing material proving no spillage/damage had occurred during shipping. He immediately escalated his case & won by phone. He then left negative feedback warning off potential customers. I dropped from 100 to 93.8%. I wasn't able to work things out because he wouldn't engage in civil conversation. He just ranted and name called and got very vicious. Anyway by this time I knew I had got TOOK! No wonder he was careful NOT to ask any questions about colour BEFORE he bought it. That was his ruse to get me to accept the return. And no wonder he wouldn't settle for a partial refund when he knew it was so easy to get a full refund + Shp.

Ebay refunded his $ instantly but for about 24 hrs they were messaging that the case was still in review. Ha! I lost & buyer was the first to know. Called for an appeal. I lost. Asked to speak to a supervisor. Lost again within 2 mins. I tried to take exception to his saying that for all they know this could have happened in the mail, I tried to tell him about my photos of the return packing materials that clearly showing no spillage/damage during shipment . He snapped at me to stop talking over him as he wanted to say what he had to say quickly. He didn't talk with me .. he talked at me. Told me to take action outside of ebay if I'm not happy. And he told me to have a nice day.

Is there anyone higher up on ebay that I can appeal or protest to? Someone who will be more respectful and impartial? I think I may be leaving this shark tank called ebay but just the same, I would like to know all the places where I went wrong on this transaction. I know I made a lot of mistakes. My listings need work too. Item was BNIB ... so what could go wrong I thought? I would appreciate any helpful critique and guidance. Thanks so much!

pierrelebel · ‎05-12-2015

"....should write an easy to understand online Seller's manual that you could update as needed."

Actually the book is written and updated... daily, right here on these discussion boards.

You will find a large number of posters (some more regular than others, depending on time availability) participating and offering solutions and ideas to a wide range of questions, inquiries, problems and challenges experienced by other members.

On eBay.ca boards you find answers of specific interest to Canadians.

Now, let's be honest, not all answers posted on these boards are the right for you. Many posters have different opinions on many subjects or approach challenges from different perspectives and personal experiences. I suggest you make it a priority to set aside ten or fifteen minutes daily to review these boards. Soak in all that information! If you are a seller, take a look at the buyer's board to better understand the other point-of-views, the "other side of the coin".

Good Luck

**oldcherrylane** · ‎05-12-2015

I lost so much sleep over this and my 2 handicapped brothers that I take care of full-time have been badly neglected. They've had to listen to me cry and plead with ebay for 2 full days. This advice from you and Pierre is the best advice of all .... if I can't take the heat and NOT focus and obsess on the bad transactions than I won't make it as a Seller on ebay. Okay the Whining has stopped. Will move on and try to remember it's just the cost of doing business. Thanks Guys!

**oldcherrylane** · ‎05-12-2015

What a great response Pierre! A practical manual was here all along. Think I'll hang around more often from now on .... 🙂

jt-libra · ‎05-12-2015

I'm sorry this happened to you. I sell cosmetics as well so I fully appreciate what you've said about having used items returned to you. What good are they?

I haven't had a lot of unhappy buyers .... a few who I suspect are very seldom satisfied. However, if it's a $20 or $25 cosmetic item, I apologize for their disappointment and advise them that I will be sending them a full refund immediately. I go on to say that they will receive an e-mail from PayPal when the money is in their account. I do not ask them to return the item. I can't re-sell the item; it's not likely it's something I would then go on to use for myself; and paying the return shipping is simply throwing good money after bad. I do, however, cancel the transaction (selecting as the reason the buyer changing her mind) both in order to get my FVF back and to avoid a defect.

I couldn't agree more with Pierre's statement:

"For fifteen years on eBay (until my retirement a few years ago) and twenty-five years in the mail order business I included a "free gift" with every order. A "small token of my appreciation". However, I feel it is counter-productive to tell buyers ahead of time. Some people may be disappointed based on high expectations. A "free gift" is always better coming as a surprise as it creates goodwill and helps minimize the risk of bad feedback when there is a problem with the transaction."

I've always included a free gift(s) and have often gift-wrapped the item, but have never mentioned that in my listings. I do it to thank people for putting their trust in me and it really does create a lot of goodwill. People are always surprised and pleased to get the gifts and, as a result, they are far less apt to make an unreasonable complaint because they feel that I am an honest and well-intentioned seller (which I am).

I do think your shipping costs within Canada are too high for many of the cosmetic items. Eyeshadow compacts, mascaras, blush, etc., can be enclosed in light weight bubble wrap or in a double sheet of tissue paper and shipped in a #0 or #1 bubble envelope. Under 100 grams will cost $1.80 and 100-200 grams - $2.95. You can add a little for the cost of the shipping materials, but I don't. The exchange on the US-CAD dollar will cover most of that cost. And these same smaller items can be shipped to the U.S. as "light packet" up to 150 grams for $5.00.

As well, I have to admit that I was more than a little surprised to see the price of your items. If you can sell them at that price, then God bless you ... good for you. I know what the retail cost of those items are and together with the exchange and the cost of shipping, at your prices, I would sell very, very little -- unless I wanted to ship to countries who do not have access to these types of items. I prefer, however, to ship to Canada and the U.S. only (less stress for me). As much as I would like to get top dollar for my items, there is so much competition in the Health and Beauty category, that I have to keep my prices, and my profit margin, low. Ideally, I would like to get 60% of the retail price but, at best, I get 40 to 50% for new, sealed, packaged products.

Just a few comments for you to consider or disregard (I'm not sensitive). Because you and I sell similar products, I thought I would just offer you the benefit of my experience.

And the other posters are right -- don't lose sleep over this incident or others like it. It's easier said than done but the effect on your nerves and well being is not worth it. I don't like losing money or being ripped off any more than the next person but it's the cost of doing business. Sometimes I vent on this Board and hear about similar experiences and then I feel better 🙂

Good luck to you.

**oldcherrylane** · ‎05-13-2015

What a friendly and helpful reply, Jt-Libra. Thank you so much! Yes I am only guessing at the shipping and I'm not very good at it. The first couple of items cost more than I asked, so I absorbed it of course, but now they're too high. More than more person has told me that here. Without being asked to I did give a customer a refund on an shipping overcharge but that's no way to attract buyers. Before I list I check what prices other sellers are charging and pick a number (usually on the high end!). I'm going to stop doing this. I know the prices are inflated especially for Mac because so many collect them.

Will be lowering my shipping and pricing which will help actually sell the items and I"ll feel better about asking fairer prices irregardless of what anybody else is doing or how much I've had to pay for myself as a buyer on ebay.

Another thing I'll do is NOT sell big ticket items or lots anymore, a buyer just has to say snad on 1 item to get full refund. Too risky.

As a cosmetic seller yourself, I'd like your advice on this. I'm now afraid to sell items like mascara or lip gloss. I know they have never been opened and are in brand new condition. And I think you can see that in the photos. They rarely come SEALED though so how would I prove this if buyer says USED, I want my money back. Not possible right? I wish I could offer them only to customers who have proven to be honest but how would I do that?

Thanks again! And yes I too a feel a lot better after coming here. 🙂

jt-libra · ‎05-13-2015

**oldcherrylane** wrote:

As a cosmetic seller yourself, I'd like your advice on this. I'm now afraid to sell items like mascara or lip gloss. I know they have never been opened and are in brand new condition. And I think you can see that in the photos. They rarely come SEALED though so how would I prove this if buyer says USED, I want my money back. Not possible right? I wish I could offer them only to customers who have proven to be honest but how would I do that?

You're right of course ... there are quite a number of items that do not come sealed or boxed, even in a department store. And, unfortunately, there is no way to disprove a claim that an item was received in "used" condition. But to be honest, I have never heard that particular claim from any of my buyers over the years. They may have been unhappy with the colour or they thought it was going to be a larger size. Be very careful when a buyer claims that you sent them an old product.

All cosmetic items (except for the occasional sample size) have a batch code on them which identifies when the item was manufactured .... the rule of thumb is "best by 3 years from the manufacturing date" (although many cosmetics can be used long after that; some of my favourite eyeshadow palettes are 7-8 years old). Batch codes can be found on the bottom of a lipstick or on the side of a mascara, or in other places (sometimes you need to use a magnifying glass to read it). In addition to a batch code, some items have the actual "Best Before date" on the bottom of the item or on the box, if it comes in one. There are various websites you can use to check the batch code of most products from well known companies. Just google "check cosmetic batch codes" and you can select one that includes the manufacturers you are dealing with. I also include the Best Before date in the Item Specifics and in my listing. Occasionally, there is no batch code and you have to use your best judgment.

So if a buyer says you've sent her an old product, refer her to the batch code on the item and the website where she can check it to prove that it is not an expired item. But if a person is unhappy and wants her money back, sometimes there's just no pleasing them. She might turn around and say -- well the colour is also wrong.

But you might be surprised by how few and far between these complaints are. Most buyers are honest and pleased with the price and the customer service. They may send you a nice note or leave a lovely feedback comment. But even when they're happy, few people leave feedback anymore ... 30 to 40% at best.

One last comment, yes ... you may well sell products for less than what you paid but with freshness being such an important factor with cosmetics and skin care, you have to sell them while there's still at least a year left before the "best before date", which means selling it for what you can, or not at all.

You also stated:

"Before I list I check what prices other sellers are charging and pick a number (usually on the high end!). "

I do the opposite .... I stay near the lower end. When I'm shopping on eBay, I sort the results by Price + Shipping: lowest first, so I always make the assumption that my buyers are doing the same thing. This works for me, but of course my profit is lower. Other posters on this board claim that they sell high and they sell a lot. Whatever works for each individual!

**oldcherrylane** · ‎05-13-2015

Jt .... you`ve given me some great useful tips on how to sell more effectively on ebay! And now it`s off to work on my listings .... I sure hope to see you around the watercooler again! 🙂

pierrelebel · ‎05-13-2015

While you are rethinking how to sell on eBay, I noticed this line in one of your listings:

"Sorry to have to say this, but please do not bid unless you intend to pay if you win the bid."

Please take it out.

Use the description to sell your item. Avoid any hint of negativity.

Also, for long description, use paragraphs. Trying to read eight lines of text without a break is... painful and most potential buyers will not bother. I saw some listings with bullets - they look good and are easy to read.

Also found "the winner of this auction would be offered an invite to purchase the full size MUFE eyeliner (OL matte black) for 50% off of my listed price."

You must take this out. It is against eBay policies.

KISS

**oldcherrylane** · ‎05-13-2015

Pierre you're a gem .... it amazes me that you would take all this time to help me!

On the lot with, please don't bid if you don't intend to pay .... that's the first time I've ever included that. Reason - the first winner didn't pay or answer any emails .... offered mutual canellation, gave her lots of time to pay. Second chance offer didn't answer me either (only 3 stars). People just don't like me! LOL ... I'll try to remove now even though there's a bid. Thank YOU ... I can see I'm beginning to sound as if the customer is an enemy and I always hated sensing that myself!

pierrelebel · ‎05-13-2015

"winner didn't pay or answer any emails .... offered mutual cancellation, gave her lots of time to pay. Second chance offer didn't answer me either... "

.

As stated earlier, ignore those "difficult" customers. Forget those bad experiences. Life is full of happy and satisfied buyers (over 98%-99% of them). Concentrate on them only.

Whenever you encounter a "difficult" customer, just forget the experience and move on.

Those "difficult" customers could not care less about the warnings inserted in a listing in any case. They most likely do not read. See a picture, like the price, they buy. Ask questions later!

Good Luck

**oldcherrylane** · ‎05-13-2015

Can't change the description now that there is a bid but I won't ever put that 'Please Pay Up' caution in again.

Sometimes the bullet option seem doesn't to work. So I just plow ahead with the paragraph. Got to figure out what I'm doing wrong there.

I'll call ebay for help on that if need be.

Boy I'm really starting to sound defensive .... how's this. I've started to include, Please ask questions if you're not sure! Better to say, All questions are welcome. Right?

femmefan1946 · ‎05-13-2015

Yes I am only guessing at the shipping and I'm not very good at it

Well, that's not good.

I got a digital metric scale at Canadian Tire a couple of years ago. It's a Starfrit and cost under $20. They go on sale regularly.

And you need a measuring tape or ruler.

Some crafty sellers make a template with a 2cm slot in it to check that a parcel can go LetterPost/LightPacket, which is the cheapest service. (But not tracked or insurable. It is fast.)

With those in hand you can easily find the rate. You could even take time to work out the Regional and National domestic rates for parcels in various services.

And btw, metric. Canada Post went metric in 1974 and any other measurement will be inaccurate. Since rates change on a gram or centimeter this is very important.

A passing thought, have you ever looked at your listings on a mobile device? It's shocking what is and is not seen by mobile customers, and the younger customers (under 40!) are using their phones to bid and buy.

**oldcherrylane** · ‎05-13-2015

Thanks FemmeFan .... $20 is cheap enough. I'll get one of those digital scales. Well worth it.

And no ... never thought of looking at my listings elsewhere than on my laptop. Will check them out on my brother's iphone!

Thanks for the great tips!

pocomocomputing · ‎05-14-2015

The Canadian Tire Starfrit scale latest version (has changed slightly in looks in the past 5 years for the bottom plastic part and LCD display but the top glass is the same) is here

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/kitchen/tools-utensils/specialty-tools/starfrit-5-kg-digital-kitchen-s...

The current non-sale price is $26.99. As mentioned above, it has gone on sale for 60% off and I bought it at $9.99 a few years ago. It seems to come on sale at 60% off every 2 months or at least did. It is not on sale now per online status. If you are interested in this as a scale, you might just wait for Friday and it might go on sale when the new flyer comes out this week.

Keep the receipt and if it goes on sale in the next month by Canadian Tire, I think they will price protect you for 4 weeks. So check each week the Canadian Tire flyer for it to be on sale for the next 4 weeks to get back $10-$15. I am looking cheap but 60% off is a big discount when it goes on sale so worth a followup if you pay full price.

Environmental deposit of 2-3 dollars is charged (at least here in BC).

PS I got a second Starfrit for $6.99 at Value Village thrift store one day when I was browsing. I was keeping it as a backup to my current Starfrit but I bragged too much about the great price and my daughter swiped it for her kitchen. LOL. On another note, I got a $100+ food sealer at Value Village too for $4.99 new in box with warranty and instructions (but 5-10 years old), barely used it seems. Bragged about that steal and my son wanted it as he was going to buy one at full price. LOL. Must remember to keep all Value Village deals to myself.

pierrelebel · ‎05-14-2015

"I got a $100+ food sealer... "

About twenty years ago, I purchased a used Decosonic bag sealer (made in Canada in the 80's) at a garage sale for $2. I have used it for twenty years to heat seal all my shipments for protection against moisture (rain, snow, humidity) while in transit.

About fifteen years ago, Mary spotted an identical one (lightly used but still in original box) at a church bazaar sale also for $2. I bought it as a back up.

During our recent move from Belleville to Napanee a small plastic piece was broken on the original sealer making it unworkable. Oh well, $2 for twenty year of regular daily use... that's not bad. Now I use my back up sealer purchased fifteen year ago.

Why pay $5 at Value Village when you can get it for $2 at church or yard sales???

PS - I see a few advertised on Kijiji for $20 each!

ricarmic · ‎05-14-2015

Hi Oldcherry! A couple thoughts regarding negatives/neutrals. In my opinion, how you reply has more to say about your selling credibility than whatever the buyer happens to say.

None of us like getting negs/neutrals and most of us are upset when we get them.

Here is what I did that helped me:
I pre-wrote responses to neutrals/negatives when I wasn't upset so that the emotions weren't reflected and they were more professional.

Here is a link to a topic I wrote on this a while ago....
http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/Neutral-Negative-ratings-or-threats-thereof-the-form-lett...

ricarmic · ‎05-14-2015

In addition to femmes comment here is a link to the canada post rates so you can figure out the shipping cost of anything...

https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/prices/default-e.asp?ecid=murl07001139

**oldcherrylane** · ‎05-14-2015

LOL ... you're a good Mom pocoloco .... as well a sweetie to give me all this info! Checked out your link and liked what I saw. Guess I might as well wait a little and try to snag it on sale.

Thanks for your help!

**oldcherrylane** · ‎05-14-2015

Yes I so regret my lightening fast response now .... only makes me seem MEAN and NASTY and I'm not. Was more upset at his trying to ruin me and the HUGE impact his feedback had on my credibility than anything else. I only succeeded in lessening that confidence even more!

That snake knows the truth, as I do, but since there's no way I can definitively prove it to others I should have had the sense to step back and respond in a more polished and professional manner. Oh well, lesson learned, I never said I was very bright ... only claimed to be honest.

Thanks for your great advice ricarmic!

**oldcherrylane** · ‎05-14-2015

Thanks ricarmic! With the help of a digital scale (and a ruler!) I should be able to better determine what can ship as small tracked packet and what has to go as Expedited Parcel to the USA .... made a mistake a few times.