eBay

vnati · ‎05-09-2016

I made a listing of auction with no reserve for my used fountain pen. The description was full of details including scratches, no papers, etc. There was stated "no returns", "no refund". It looked very simple. A guy from Asia won the pen for $370 plus shipping. No problem.
As he received the pen, he opened a case "the item is not as described". His claim was about a box where I put the pen! And nothing about the pen itself.
I did not sell the box. I sold the pen.
The case was resolved in the buyer's favour. It is unbelievable.
It is a violation of eBay policy and sellers' protection against dishonest buyers.
So, I am going to sue eBay.

mr.elmwood · ‎05-11-2016

@i.am.vivian wrote:
@pjcdn2005 wrote:
If the buyer chooses any of the buyer's remorse choices (changed mind, didn't fit, color darker etc) as the reason for the return, the seller is allowed to refuse the return if their listing states no returns or if it is past the seller's stated return time. If the buyer chooses a not as described reason for the return that's a totally different situation.
That's it, I guess, they rarely admit they changed their mind or wish they hadn't spent so much. They always open NAD even when it is exactly as described, but then don't want to send it back and when the seller can't forward the buyer a shipping label that leaves the seller having to risk the buyer just taking the discount from PayPal's Send Money and then vanishing.

The OP's buyer said NAD about the box and ebay gave the buyer all the money and the seller didn't even get the item back. I wish I knew if that was all there was to the story.

I alluded to that earlier. OP has three (3) feedback as a seller, on this ID. That simply smacks of inexperience. Inexperience breeds innocent errors that once started, pile on top of each other.

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gifts_of_elegance · ‎05-11-2016

Not always Mr. Elmwood. I switched to "no refunds" and eBay has honored it if the reason was not damage or wrong item. Last three claims were settled in my favor.

mr.elmwood · ‎05-11-2016

@gifts_of_elegance wrote:
Not always Mr. Elmwood. I switched to "no refunds" and eBay has honored it if the reason was not damage or wrong item. Last three claims were settled in my favor.

I agree, not always. You however have a tremendous amount of experience in the inner maze of eBay. As I do. Our OP does not.

I believe, however, this sounds more like an INAD claim which would be different from a return.

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jersey..authentix · ‎05-11-2016

Maybe I'm wrong but if a buyer does change their minds or states they found a better deal, cant the seller refuse the request regardless if he or she has no refunds on their listing.

Tell me if I have this one right. If you have an NAD return request, you will have to honor that request regardless to having written in your listings No returns.

The confusion called Ebay. Its a wonderful thing.

pjcdn2005 · ‎05-11-2016

if a buyer does change their minds or states they found a better deal, cant the seller refuse the request regardless if he or she has no refunds on their listing.

Correct. As mentioned earlier, eBay does not require a seller to accept a buyer's remorse return if the listing states no returns.

If you have an NAD return request, you will have to honor that request regardless to having written in your listings No returns.

Correct for the most part. It is usually best to accept the return in a nad situation. If you want to fight it because you think that the item is not nad and you don't offer returns you can try to fight it but more likely than not you will not win in the end and might end up with an unresolved claim defect.

jersey..authentix · ‎05-11-2016

Its funny because I am right now dealing with 2 separate NAD's. Im not just doing a NAD because it gets my money back. The items are a joke. The sellers should be ashamed of themselves. Any way. getting back to topic. The seller is in the states and cant send me a return label. Ebay says to create one myself and Ebay will ask the buyer to refund me. Why am I thinking bull **bleep** on this.. Below is as written;

Send the item back;

The seller is responsible for return shipping charges. Contact the seller for a return shipping label. If they can't provide one, you can purchase a label, and we'll ask the seller to reimburse you.

Obviously ebay wants me to call them to what? Why do I get the feeling I won't see a dime on this one. This is one flawed system. I have had this both ways. Normally I would just send the agreed upon amount to the buyer.

This is an area Ebay needs to figure out. Im sure that many times this can go well with a buyer and sellers , but I can see hostility between the two as well. It will go down to the seller wanting the item back before he or she reimburses the return shipping cost and the buyer not trusting the seller and wants the money first. Negative feedback anyone.

jersey..authentix · ‎05-11-2016

Correct. As mentioned earlier, eBay does not require a seller to accept a buyer's remorse return if the listing states no returns.

I think You mis read my thread. I said "regardless if he or she has no refunds on their listing." If I have it correctly, this is the so lonely one area that Ebay actually protects the seller. Returns or no returns written.

i.am.vivian · ‎05-11-2016

@jersey..authentix wrote:

Send the item back;
The seller is responsible for return shipping charges. Contact the seller for a return shipping label. If they can't provide one, you can purchase a label, and we'll ask the seller to reimburse you.

This is an area Ebay needs to figure out. Im sure that many times this can go well with a buyer and sellers , but I can see hostility between the two as well. It will go down to the seller wanting the item back before he or she reimburses the return shipping cost and the buyer not trusting the seller and wants the money first. Negative feedback anyone.

After reading this thread I was thinking this exactly. Couldn't have said it better. The whole return shipping issue doesn't work outside the USA and shouldn't be imposed on everyone until eBay has sorted out a more sensible system that works for everyone and we can all use effectively.

jersey..authentix · ‎05-11-2016

I dont know what is going on in Ebay's head these days, but it seems everything they touch is going to hell. There seems to be so many issues with Ebay and paypal. If it isn't glitches all over ebay, then it not being able to print shipping labels. These are long going issues. Don't remember so much problems years ago. There's too many holes in Ebay policy. The return question, buyer protection , give me awhile Ill find more.

Like I said , I dont know what going on over there but I do think before ebay invokes any further polices or site change, they need to clean up the mess they left first. Maybe too much stuff in the plumbing and its now clogging up.

pjcdn2005 · ‎05-12-2016

@jersey..authentix wrote:
Correct. As mentioned earlier, eBay does not require a seller to accept a buyer's remorse return if the listing states no returns.

I think You mis read my thread. I said "regardless if he or she has no refunds on their listing." If I have it correctly, this is the so lonely one area that Ebay actually protects the seller. Returns or no returns written.

Hmmmm ok. I didn't understand what you were asking.

if your listing states that you accept returns then eBay does require you to accept the return for any reason. A seller isn't allowed to say they will take returns and then specify what type of return they will take.

is that what you meant?

vnati · ‎05-12-2016

Thank you everybody for their opinions.
Anyway, it didn't became more clear to me what exactly "no return" means.
In my case I sold the used pen with full description of its condition. When the buyer opened the case, he did not complain about the pen.
The appeal decided it in my favour.

sylviebee · ‎05-12-2016

@vnati wrote:

The appeal decided it in my favour.

All right! Good to hear it worked out.

When you say that the decision is in your favour does that mean that the return was denied?

Was the money pulled back from the buyer or did eBay reimburse you (or do you know)?

mr.elmwood · ‎05-12-2016

@vnati wrote:
Thank you everybody for their opinions.
Anyway, it didn't became more clear to me what exactly "no return" means.
In my case I sold the used pen with full description of its condition. When the buyer opened the case, he did not complain about the pen.
The appeal decided it in my favour.

That is excellent news. Kinda goes contrary to the thread title?

eBay is a minefield. To the new, the mines are hidden, We know where they are.

If you would like, there are a lot of people, here, with a lot of knowledge and years of stepping on mines, and we can help. Some of us actually live off of this income. I cheat, I have a pension, that I don't have to touch.

I am approaching 11,000 (eleven thousand) unit sales and pretty much every day, I say "Now **bleep** do I do?".

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vtec_motors · ‎12-28-2016

I sold a headlight for $69 + $39 for shipping service of 6 Business Days. Total of $108

I shipped the item and customer received it in 3 Business Days.

Next day the customer sent us a message saying that he bought it by mistake and he wants to return the item.

Based on our policy as listed on eBay. I told him to return but you need to pay the both ways shipping because you are saying that you both by mistake.

Next step he opened a case.

eBay asked customer to return the item and he should get his refund.

He returned the item when it arrived the post service asked me for $41 for customs duty. I refused to pay because originally when I shipped to the customer I took care of everything.

Finally I lost * the $69 item + $39 that I paid for original shipping to carrier + eBay refunded to customer $69 + $39 original shipping cost.

Just because of buyers mistake eBay punished me $216 for the original sells of $108

When we have contacted eBay. They told us that, this is how it works.

i.am.vivian · ‎12-28-2016

@vtec_motors wrote:
he bought it by mistake and he wants to return the item.

He returned the item when it arrived the post service asked me for $41 for customs duty. I refused to pay

Finally I lost * the $69 item + $39 that I paid for original shipping to carrier + eBay refunded to customer $69 + $39 original shipping cost.

Just because of buyers mistake eBay punished me $216 for the original sells of $108

Not entirely buyers mistake. When an item is coming back to you it helps to tell the buyer to mark the package as RETURNED goods. Even if they don't and you have to pay, you can get back any import charges you had to pay, it's just a bit of a hassle.

What kind of case did the buyer open? Changed his mind? Or "not as described"? That can make a lot of difference in how eBay handles things regarding who pays all the shipping.

You can't refuse a returned item once it arrives. If you do, you don't get to withhold the buyer's refund. You need to pay to get the item back, then file the paperwork to get your import charges reimbursed, all the time you are dealing with the buyer. Refusing the parcel and refusing to act will result in eBay acting for you. And you now know the result.

goldnideas · ‎12-29-2016

Yes, seller can deny returns, and ebay will close dispute in favor of seller, according to his/ her return policy.

rose-dee · ‎12-29-2016

@vtec_motors wrote:

"Next day the customer sent us a message saying that he bought it by mistake and he wants to return the item."

You said the buyer opened a case. Was it a NAD ("Not as Described") case? If so, do you know on what basis the buyer claimed the item was NAD? You may be able to get eBay to stop the refund to the buyer (if it hasn't yet been done), or ask that the refund be reversed if still possible. At the very least, it may be possible to get the unresolved case defect removed from your seller record. That is, as long as there really was no reason for the buyer to claim the item was NAD.*

Try calling eBay Customer Service again. You may have to go through 2 or 3 people before somebody understands the situation. Point out to eBay that the buyer sent you a message saying he bought the item by mistake -- if that message was sent via eBay Messages, eBay can look at it to determine the buyer's original intentions.

As far as the customs charges go, if you have the time, you can write or call CBSA, explain the situation, and see if they will refund you (an Appeal form is included on the back of your customs charge document). You won't get the $9.95 Canada Post collection fee back though. You may be more likely to convince CBSA to refund you if you provide them with documentation on the eBay transaction and return process itself, to prove the parcel was a returned item. If this ever happens again, be sure to have the buyer state "RETURNED MERCHANDISE" on the parcel.

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*When a buyer discovers they will have to pay for return shipping (with tracking) in order to get a refund on a "buyer's remorse" purchase, it is just too tempting for that buyer to look for a flaw in the item (or deliberately damage the item as if damaged during shipment) and open a NAD claim, in order to force the seller to pay return shipping. I consider this one of the biggest problem areas in eBay's returns/refunds policy.

Although eBay doesn't require the seller to pay return shipping for buyer's remorse, in my opinion, one way for a seller to avoid this nasty situation is to offer to reimburse a portion of the return shipping cost once the item is received in satisfactory condition. Personally, I'd offer to cover 50% of the return shipping, even for a "mistaken" purchase. That way, I'm more likely to get the item back promptly and in good shape. You can always block the buyer once all the dust has settled.

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If you had handled this return as noted above, your only loss would have been about $15 for 50% of the return shipping cost, and you would have still had the item to re-sell. I realize it's too late to change everything that happened in this transaction, but you'll know how to protect yourself the next time.

I presume when you say: "... + $39 that I paid for original shipping to carrier", you mean that you provided free shipping to the buyer? If so, you would have spent that $39 anyway on the sale of this item. If, on the other hand, the buyer paid the $39 original shipping, then for me that would be all the more reason to chip in for part of his return shipping cost.

pjcdn2005 · ‎12-30-2016

The seller refused the parcel because they did not want to pay duty and were probably not aware that they could put in a claim with Canada customs. He refused the parcel so eBay refunded the buyer. I don't see how offering to pay half of return postage for this remorse return would have benefitted the seller in any way in this situation. I didn't reread the whole thread, just the post that you replied to so perhaps you are referring to a different situation.

rose-dee · ‎12-30-2016

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
The seller refused the parcel because they did not want to pay duty and were probably not aware that they could put in a claim with Canada customs. He refused the parcel so eBay refunded the buyer. I don't see how offering to pay half of return postage for this remorse return would have benefitted the seller in any way in this situation. I didn't reread the whole thread, just the post that you replied to so perhaps you are referring to a different situation.

Yes, I did understand that the OP had refused the parcel and therefore the return became actually nullified, leading to eBay refunding the buyer. That was not connected at all to the sharing of return shipping costs, except to say that I think if the seller had handled the whole thing differently from the beginning, it might never have got to that point.

Although the seller still hasn't stated whether that case was a NAD, what I was actually referring to was that had the seller offered to share the cost of the return from the start, the buyer might never have opened a case in the first place, forcing an "eBay-managed" return/refund that could have other consequences. In my experience with the few "remorse" returns I've had, buyers react very well to an offer of shared return shipping, and co-operate accordingly in the return/refund process, without involving eBay at all. The advantage of accommodating and getting the buyer on your side from the outset has always seemed the better route to me.

In other words, I was suggesting that a bit of preventive action on the seller's part (including, obviously, also asking the buyer to mark the parcel as a return) might have avoided most of the monetary losses the seller mentioned, and any defects he may have got from eBay as a result. Clearly the seller made some unfortunate mistakes that cost him money and the loss of his item.

I see that this seller has a "buyer pays return shipping (FOB)" policy, but that doesn't mean he is always obliged to enforce it. I have the same sort of policy in my listings, but it's meant as a deterrent, to encourage buyers to think seriously about return requests. I rarely actually insist on it.