Everything against seller?

[vnati]

I made a listing of auction with no reserve for my used fountain pen. The description was full of details including scratches, no papers, etc. There was stated "no returns", "no refund". It looked very simple. A guy from Asia won the pen for $370 plus shipping. No problem.
As he received the pen, he opened a case "the item is not as described". His claim was about a box where I put the pen! And nothing about the pen itself.
I did not sell the box. I sold the pen.
The case was resolved in the buyer's favour. It is unbelievable.
It is a violation of eBay policy and sellers' protection against dishonest buyers.
So, I am going to sue eBay.

[sylviebee]

Not to rube salt in the wound, although that's probably the effect this will have.

There seems to be no case for INADed and for that reason your buyer would have had to pay return shipping.

Chances are hi that the buyer would have opted not to return the item after learning the cost of returning with tracking.

When you refused the return you took that option off the table.

[mr.elmwood]

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@sylviebee wrote:

Not to rube salt in the wound, although that's probably the effect this will have.

There seems to be no case for INADed and for that reason your buyer would have had to pay return shipping.

Chances are hi that the buyer would have opted not to return the item after learning the cost of returning with tracking.

When you refused the return you took that option off the table.

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A lot of my returns never come back because the buyer never figured I would say yes. Then they find out how much money and effort they have to expend and never follow through.

Return with tracking is a barrier that eBay put up to prevent returns.

[vnati]

I can't agree that I refused to receive my item back. I am not insane person. And I was not going to donate my property to an Asian swindler.
When I saw the opened case, I couldn't imagine that there was foregone conclusion against me. I did not see, and now do not see, what was wrong with the sold item. What exactly is not as described? Such decision is not logical. The buyer fabricated the case. It is absolutely clear. And now everybody tells me that it was me who made something wrong. eBay did not clarify what "no return" means. eBay did not ask me about my opinion when the case was opened. Nothing. If I am a seller, I am always guilty.
Now eBay does not answer my letter. The buyer got money back and does not answer my emails to return my pen back. How does it call? Fraud, theft, swindling?

[vnati]

Ok.
eBay clarifys it's fees very accurately. But why it does not bother to do the same thing regarding the unclear things like "no return"?
In my case the condition "no return" misled me so I lost my property. And this is a legal reason to open a court case.

[tobyshitzu]

Having a listing with "no returns' has nothing to do with how the case was handled.  Having "accepts returns' would mean the buyer could return if they changed their mind etc.  Having "no returns" means they can't just return it, but you are still bound by ebay & paypal's tos that gaurantees buyers get their item as described.  Listing with "no returns' does not change how the dispute is handled

When the buyer opened the claim, did you respond through the resolution center in time?  What option did you take (one of them is to  refund to close the case, without requiring return).  If it was to be returned, you would have had to provide a shipping label (which isnt possible) or the funds for the buyer to buy one.   

[mr.elmwood]

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@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

Having a listing with "no returns' has nothing to do with how the case was handled.  Having "accepts returns' would mean the buyer could return if they changed their mind etc.  Having "no returns" means they can't just return it, but you are still bound by ebay & paypal's tos that gaurantees buyers get their item as described.  Listing with "no returns' does not change how the dispute is handled

When the buyer opened the claim, did you respond through the resolution center in time?  What option did you take (one of them is to  refund to close the case, without requiring return).  If it was to be returned, you would have had to provide a shipping label (which isnt possible) or the funds for the buyer to buy one.   

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I click accept return and the message goes. Then, it is up to the customer to follow through. Most do not.

Knowing how eBay works is a whole lot different from fighting against how it doesn't work.

Them allowing sellers to state "no returns, no refunds" is a crock-o-poop, as they require refunding as part of doing business. Either eBay or Paypal will force the refund. Working with this is knowing how the "system" works.

[tobyshitzu]

Its fine to list with no returns, that is why ebay provides that option.  List with no returns, buyer requests a return, you click no and its case closed.

If the buyer opens a not as described case, the seller will lose almost all (NOT all) the time and have to take the return.  

Listing with "no returns" does absolutely not mean ebay will assume the seller doesn't want it returned and just refund the buyer 

[mr.elmwood]

Well, our OP has three FB for selling. Even doubling that, they have only sold six times, if they are referring to this id.

Making sense of eBay after six sales? I am 10,700 sales and I consider myself uninformed.

[jersey..authentix]

I don't know why Ebay gives that option to not accept returns. Its an option that has no teeth. They should remove it.

Reading your situation doesn't make a lot of sense. If the buyer started a return regardless of what he described as not as described, you are supposed to have the option to accept the return where then Ebay gives the options:

of refunding the buyer after the item is returned,

or partial refund and the matter is closed ,

or refund the buyer now and the buyer keeps the item.

Did you not receive these options once the return was initiated? If not, then I don't understand what happened. Now if you did receive the option , could you have made the wrong selection? I did once. By mistake obviously.

Ebay dosent just give refunds to buyers without first going through their return process. You may ( and I'm saying may) have unintentionally did something wrong through this process. Nothing to do with your unaccepting of returns written in your listing.

I for one wouldn't ship to China. Infact there are many countries I simply don't trust. You should refine some of those countries you send to.

[tobyshitzu]

Again, they have a "no returns' option because you do not have to accept returns, and they will not force you to accept returns.  The buyer asks for a return (not a dispute), all you have to do is click no and the buyer gets told they cannot return. All my listings are no returns, and returns have been denied

[jersey..authentix]

You can deny a buyer a refund verbally, but that does not stop the buyer from opening a dispute to get his or her money refunded. Which takes me back to , listing with no refund is useless. Maybe some new buyer might accept this as law but anyone who has been on ebay knows different.

Personally I think it's bad business not to offer returns. I accept returns for whatever reason  a buyer has. In the long run it has help me with some repeat customers. Just saying

[tobyshitzu]

AGAIN, you can deny a buyer return request through ebay, and not accept the return and not refund anything when you have your listing "no returns'.

[jersey..authentix]

That surprises the hell out of me if that's true. I'm trying to find something that relates to Sellers not having to pay out on refunds. Cant find much. At least not enough to substantiate your statement. I find some hints to the fact but not conclusive. Any idea where I can find this in the sea of Ebay policies.

[i.am.vivian]

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@toby**bleep**zu wrote:
you can deny a buyer return request through ebay, and not accept the return and not refund anything when you have your listing "no returns'.

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How?  

Where's the magic button to stop ebay from deciding the case in the buyer's favor and giving them back the money?

What are the magic words to say in the claim to make this happen?

[tobyshitzu]

You can deny "returns' when you say no returns.  returns aren't "not as described"
claims

[femmefan1946]

When I declared the item's value, a postman said

Do you mean a letter carrier?

They are not trained in all the ins and outs of postal rates and services. (Many know them because the counter clerks often started as carriers and won their positions through competition that included studying the rates.)

Did you mean a clerk in a postal outlet?

She works for the drug store not Canada Post. Some are better trained than others.

Did you mean a clerk in a Post Office?

She was wrong-- as you can see by looking at the Canada Post website.

https://www.canadapost.ca/cpotools/apps/far/business/findARate?execution=e1s2

The only service to Hong Kong that has both Tracking and Signature Confirmation is Priority Post at nearly $100. Expresspost would be about $70.

Tracked Packet is a little slower but 'only' costs $60.

Never ship overseas without tracking and only by Air Mail.

https://www.canadapost.ca/web/en/pages/parcelscon/default.page

Both Priority and Expresspot allow the purchase of additional insurance up to $5000.

[pjcdn2005]

If the buyer chooses any of the buyer's remorse choices (changed mind, didn't fit, color darker etc) as the reason for the return, the seller is allowed to refuse the return if their listing states no returns or if it is past the seller's stated return time.    If the buyer chooses a not as described reason for the return that's a totally different situation.

[jersey..authentix]

That's the way I understand it. I still do think they can return it though for a refund, they just will have to pay for shipping in those instances. I just find that odd, if you really don't have to refund when you state no refunds in your listing. Is news to me. 

Im not a 100% sure but pretty sure I got a refund when the list said no returns. I can't say if the refund came from the seller or from Ebay, and I doubt it came from Ebay.

[pjcdn2005]

I just find that odd, if you really don't have to refund when you state no refunds in your listing. Is news to me. 

I would find it more odd if ebay allowed sellers to state no returns and then forced  them to accept a return when the buyer gave a buyer's remorse reason for the return.

In your situation, if the item was nad then of course the seller had to accept the return and refund or just refund without requiring a return. If you changed your mind or something like that and the listing stated no returns, you would still have the option of opening a return request and the seller would have the option of declining it or of accepting it. 

Can a buyer request a return even if I don't offer returns?

Buyers are able to request a return for any reason. However, if you don’t offer returns and the buyer asks to return an item because they changed their mind or no longer need it, didn’t like it, ordered by mistake, found a better price, or it didn’t fit, you can decline the request.

http://pages.ebay.com/sellerinformation/returns-on-eBay/#faq=faq-1

[i.am.vivian]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

If the buyer chooses any of the buyer's remorse choices (changed mind, didn't fit, color darker etc) as the reason for the return, the seller is allowed to refuse the return if their listing states no returns or if it is past the seller's stated return time.    If the buyer chooses a not as described reason for the return that's a totally different situation.

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That's it, I guess, they rarely admit they changed their mind or wish they hadn't spent so much. They always open NAD even when it is exactly as described, but then don't want to send it back and when the seller can't forward the buyer a shipping label that leaves the seller having to risk the buyer just taking the discount from PayPal's Send Money and then vanishing.  

The OP's buyer said NAD about the box and ebay gave the buyer all the money and the seller didn't even get the item back.  I wish I knew if that was all there was to the story.