HANDLING FEES: Am I the jerk? Excessive to charge $10 handling to mail a damaged item in used box?

[momcqueen]

I've made my personal thoughts on handling fees clear over the years so I will preface my question by stating that bias up-front. 

I bought something from a Canadian seller as a result of the Buy Canadian promotion and they charged me a $10 handling fee to ship me something in a clearly used box with clearly used packaging materials which protected an item with undisclosed damage. Do I have any right to feel as if I have been bamboozled? 

The item cost $50 Cad and I paid $23.16 in postage. The actual cost of postage was $13.13 CAD. And, like I said, there was no expense to consider for packing material. And I was sent an item that was bent and beat up. 

On the other hand, a week later, I bought the exact same item from another Canadian seller who charged $54 Cad for the item in question and $15.97 postage but the postage they paid was $13.79 Cad. Same type of used box and used packing material. Handling fee of $2.18 and the item was in mint condition. Perfect. 

Of course I realize seller B charged me $4 more for the same item than Seller A did. Seller B sent me a better item, however, and only charged $2.18 for handling. Both utilized previously-used shipping containers and packaging material. 

Is a $10-handling fee on a damaged $50 item shipped in a used cardboard box 'excessive' by anyone else's standards? Or is it just me? I have not yet spoken to the seller about it, and I have not left feedback. 

I want honest opinions on whether my feelings are unreasonable in this respect, please and thank you.

[sylviebee]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

I want honest opinions on whether my feelings are unreasonable in this respect, please and thank you.

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To me it makes no difference if the packaging was new or used.  While handling fees are always abrasive it makes sense to consider landed cost and decide if the item is worth the price and make the decision to purchase based on that.

If the item arrives in the condition described it's much easier to forgive handling fees, leave positive ratings (if one still bothers with that kind of thing), and move on.

When the item is not as described simply file an SNADed case and ask that the seller pay return shipping.  The seller then gets to refund $23.16 in postage plus item cost plus pay return shipping.  

Why some sellers still persist in mis-representing items is beyond me, but the only explanation that makes sense is that they get away with it more often than not.

When you buy on eBay getting upset over these things is pointless because if you buy a lot you'll be upset all of the time 

What you described is very common.

When eBay made the rule that sellers pay return shipping for SNADed cases they took one huge step in the right direction.

[esclyons]

i would not punish the seller for shipping fees, you saw them , were ok with them and received your item. now if the item was beat up, complain about that.. even though an extra 10$ paid for shipping is excessive, in my mind..

like for myself i charge 16$ for items shipped with tracking and insurance, for all of Canada.. some items cost me 13$ to ship and some cost 18$ to ship.. i hope it all balances out..in the end..but we are only talking about a couple dollars either way..

back to you,, i would certainly ask the seller why the extra 10$ charge..is the 10$ after fees, or before..

[pjcdn2005]

I would be annoyed at a $10 handling fee even if the item was in a new box. However, I doubt that I would say anything about it because I agreed to pay that s/h charge when I made the purchase.  If the item had undisclosed damage, that's a separate issue.  

But I do admi that if I was already annoyed  about the shipping charge, it would probably make the condition problem a bigger issue for me.

[pocomocomputing]

You are an experienced seller and buyer.

If you found the price of the item plus the shipping cost acceptable when you paid for the item, why complain now? Think total price when buying and if acceptable buy the item. Questioning the shipping after the fact is not right if you found it acceptable. Worrying about exact cost of shipping and if close is futile.

As a seller, I do not believe in charging the exact amount shipping costs. I think total income from the sale - eBay selling price, shipping cost charged, exchange rate difference if in USD. My shipping cost has too many things to consider like eBay shipping final value fees, PayPal fees, exchange rates, shipping materials cost (time and effort to get used material and clean them up is a hidden cost), PayPal discounts, discount postage face value and what I paid for them difference and so on. I give a shipping cost that is acceptable (I hope) to the buyer but still adds to the total income from the sale to cover all costs and make a profit.

For shipping, it is usually free shipping or a lower shipping cost to match USA based sellers to be competitive with USA sellers. Most other costs are rolled into the item price.

I would not compare my shipping methods and costs to another seller I bought from. I would not question a shipping cost after the fact when the item arrives. I would never have bought the item if I thought the total price was not acceptable to me. Any questions on shipping cost would be asked before a purchase. Or I would simply move on to another seller if I could get the total price cheaper.

As for damage, that is another issue.

[momcqueen]

Thank you, everyone for your thoughts on this. I wasn't looking for confirmation bias on this issue, I do also really want to hear from those of you who think I am being unfair so that I can see from another point-of-view if I am taking my offence too far.

I thought postage was a little high prior to purchase but assumed the seller hailed from a rural or remote location which would increase their postage cost. (I wouldn't discriminate from purchasing from a rural or remote seller simply due to increased postage cost if it was an actual postage cost and not padded handling.) My comfort level with handling fees is about $5 or 10 per cent of the item cost as opposed to double that in cash and 20 per cent of the item cost. 

Even the damage I could probably cope with if I was not already offended about the handling fee. Or vice versa.

It's like both together pushes me over the cliff when one or the other may leave me standing on the precipice. 

And I probably would feel a bit more generous with my view the $10 handling fee wasn't excessive if I could see the box was new and the packaging material was brand new because it would justify its purchase and use.

You think I should return this as a SNAD? Or politely ask the seller to explain their handling fee? Or just drop it?

[sylviebee]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

You think I should return this as a SNAD? Or politely ask the seller to explain their handling fee? Or just drop it?

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Is it SNADed?   Your post suggested that it is.  I have a very low tolerance for hidden damage and I find that the more experienced the buyer, the less tolerant they are.

[momcqueen]

There is undisclosed damage on the box it came in. It remains sealed but the packaged box is damaged which is a big deal to collectors. I wouldn't be able to sell this the way it is but I could give it to my kids, for example. I'm not certain my lovely children have earned a $73 gift today only because the seller was not forthcoming about its true state. That is the problem with it.

To some people, like a person who bought this with the intention of immediately tearing it open, this damage may not be a major issue to them. It is, however, damage to the extent that I would make absolutely certain I have identified if I decided to list it for sale. The seller in question is not a total newbie and has plenty of top-end collectibles listed for sale so I would not assume they are ignorant of this type of thing.

My point is that this doesn't look like a scenario where Gramma found something under the bed next to a box of doilies and listed it without knowing what her buyers would expect from the transaction. That can happen, I know. This is a toy seller from whom I purchased, an experienced one. Both were, Seller A and Seller B. 

[sylviebee]

I buy for re-sale as well and condition is very important and that includes boxes.  Sellers know that boxes matter, and if they don't they should.

It sounds like a SNADed case to me.

[tobyshitzu]

Someone wants to list something at $1 + $100 S&H thats the one im buying if the other choice is $110.  Not gaining any advantage at all doing that now anyway, may even be paying slightly more in fees

[sylviebee]

"Handling Fees" are rarely that straightforward.

I buy from the US almost exclusively, and the norm is to have very reasonable or free shipping for the US and to have shipping plus handling fees for Canada etc.

In other words:  Handling fees are reserved for "us," and that's the main reason they're so abrasive.

It takes a few seconds to do the extra paperwork and charging for that always rubs me the wrong way.

Part of the reason for that is because I'm also a Canadian seller and wouldn't dare charge extra for shipping over borders let alone actual cost.

[esclyons]

TO sum this all up, you should only be complaining because the item was not as described, not for the shipping fees.. you agreed to that,  done and closed issue,..but if the item was not as described, that is your basis to return, your item and recoup your original shipping fees,, don't over think this,, you said yourself if the item was perfect you would have been ok with the fees.. so you have already made up your mind..

 send it back as a not as described, and you get  everything back , or contact the seller, give them a photo, of the damage, and see how they respond.. if that isn't to your satisfaction.. return it..

[jt-libra]

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@sylviebee wrote:

I buy for re-sale as well and condition is very important and that includes boxes.  Sellers know that boxes matter, and if they don't they should.

It sounds like a SNADed case to me.

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I agree.  I rarely buy for re-sale but, occasionally, I will buy something for myself, change my mind and decide to sell it.  So condition is very important.  For instance, I might decide to sell a DVD I purchased for myself.  When it arrives and it's bouncing around in the case, I don't have to remove the wrapper to know that it will be scratched up.  That happens when it comes off the peg.  If it's secure, it won't happen during shipping, so I know that it was shipped to me in that condition.  I can't then re-sell it.  The same applies for boxed cosmetic and skin care items.  If the wrapper is broken and the box is dented, I can't re-sell it.

With respect to the handling charge, I think we've all been there.  I know what a small item from the U.S. will cost but a heavier package is not as simple to determine.  I trust that the seller is charging close to the actual shipping cost.  Upon receipt, if I see that the postage was half of what I paid, I'd be ticked off but would only blame myself.  And, of course, I would never purchase from that seller again.

I think mj is within her rights to request a return.  This was an expensive item and the seller, being a collector, should know that it is not reasonable to expect that the buyer would be happy with a damaged item, even it's just the box, whether or not she is a seller.

[momcqueen]

I'm not complaining about the shipping fees, I'm complaining that I feel the handling fees are excessive. 

The seller added $10 for no added service whatsoever. Previously-used shipping container, previously-used packaging material, and a damaged item.

Ebay policies strictly prohibit 'excessive' handling fees but stop short for whatever reason of specifying what constitutes 'excessive'. I started a whole thread about this last month. When pressed, Raphael at ebay Canada said a handling fee is supposed to be used to justify careful packaging such as building a crate within a box to ship a fragile item. This was not that. This was the opposite of that.

Post 27 https://community.ebay.ca/t5/Seller-Central/HANDLING-FEES-PRO-or-CON/td-p/351006/highlight/true/page...

The shipping and handling on my order was $23+ but the postage was $13. Ten for handling where no special or even adequate care was taken. My item arrived damaged. 

I guess I'll be opening a SNAD Return and.....?

[marnotom!]

eBay listings only state "shipping" on the listing page, not "shipping and handling".  The US and Canadian sites don't use the term "postage" or "postage and handling" on listing pages.  This may be because there are a number of sellers who ship by means other than the postal system.

"Shipping" is a service that the seller provides and as far as I'm concerned, they are free to charge what they feel the service is worth, just as sellers are free to sell their items for whatever they feel those items are worth.

What the buyer may feel the service of shipping is worth could be different than the seller's, but ultimately their decision to buy should be based on whether they think the item price, shipping charge and the grand total are in line.

If you don't feel you got your money's worth from the seller as far as how they handled the shipping of the item, that makes sense, but I don't think the breakdown of the shipping charge into what Canada Post charges for shipping the item and the seller's mark-up is relevant.   As our experiences with the Global Shipping Program, UPS, FedEx, etc. have shown, there are services that do a lot of the same stuff as Canada Post, but their charges differ, sometimes substantially.

[momcqueen]

That may be a valid opinion but it does not mitigate 'excessive' handling fees for no handling service provided whatsoever. The sender charged me almost double her actual cost to ship it to me, and I received a damaged item inside previously-used shipping material which flies in the face of what ebay has said 'handling fees' are to be used for. I'll call ebay Customer Service about this in the morning. 

[momcqueen]

As to your comparison of import fees and the varied handling charges associated with the different companies that offer that service, it is not relevant to me since I use none of the above. I choose to do my own importing when the need arises. In person. Myself. I don't believe in throwing money away for nothing, which is certainly what I feel happened here with this seller and the order I received. I paid a steep handling fee for very poor service. 

[marnotom!]

MJ, what I'm saying here is that as far as an eBay listing is concerned, there's no such thing as "handling" fees.  The listings simply say you're being charged for shipping.  Handling may make up part of that shipping fee, but buyers aren't officially told that they're paying for that.  They're paying for shipping at a rate whatever the seller feels is fair.

You're confusing the issue by referring to import fees and handling charges levied by carriers other than Canada Post.  These carriers don't levy "handling" charges and they won't charge import fees for a shipment within Canada.  Just stick to the concept of shipping fees.  Does UPS charge the same as Purolator, Canada Post or FedEx for the same point A to point B shipment?  Unlikely.  Would you feel ripped off if the seller had used a different carrier, one where you wouldn't see the shipping charge on the item?  Or would you feel that you paid twenty-plus bucks for a shipment that was poorly packaged?

[momcqueen]

I made no mention of import fees until you raised it, I'm not confused.

To answer the second part of your question, yes. I always calculate shipping paid by the seller and compare it against shipping paid to the seller so that I have an understanding of the handling fees I have paid, whether that was done upfront or secretively charged to me. I believe every buyer has this right. If a seller has charged me handling well above and beyond the service they have provided, I don't return with repeat business. I don't operate on gut instinct, I use math and facts on which to base my opinions.

[momcqueen]

And anyone who has created a listing knows 'handling fees' exist. They're on the Sell Your Item form flow. Have you used it lately? I can provide screenshots of it if you need proof. Happy to do so.