HANDLING FEES: Am I the jerk? Excessive to charge $10 handling to mail a damaged item in used box?

[momcqueen]

I've made my personal thoughts on handling fees clear over the years so I will preface my question by stating that bias up-front. 

I bought something from a Canadian seller as a result of the Buy Canadian promotion and they charged me a $10 handling fee to ship me something in a clearly used box with clearly used packaging materials which protected an item with undisclosed damage. Do I have any right to feel as if I have been bamboozled? 

The item cost $50 Cad and I paid $23.16 in postage. The actual cost of postage was $13.13 CAD. And, like I said, there was no expense to consider for packing material. And I was sent an item that was bent and beat up. 

On the other hand, a week later, I bought the exact same item from another Canadian seller who charged $54 Cad for the item in question and $15.97 postage but the postage they paid was $13.79 Cad. Same type of used box and used packing material. Handling fee of $2.18 and the item was in mint condition. Perfect. 

Of course I realize seller B charged me $4 more for the same item than Seller A did. Seller B sent me a better item, however, and only charged $2.18 for handling. Both utilized previously-used shipping containers and packaging material. 

Is a $10-handling fee on a damaged $50 item shipped in a used cardboard box 'excessive' by anyone else's standards? Or is it just me? I have not yet spoken to the seller about it, and I have not left feedback. 

I want honest opinions on whether my feelings are unreasonable in this respect, please and thank you.

[rose-dee]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

Is a $10-handling fee on a damaged $50 item shipped in a used cardboard box 'excessive' by anyone else's standards? Or is it just me? I have not yet spoken to the seller about it, and I have not left feedback. 

I want honest opinions on whether my feelings are unreasonable in this respect, please and thank you. 

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This was your original question, and (leaving aside the issue of damage) my view is that you are entitled to feel exploited by the seller's $10 handling fee.  That seems an excessive (and improper) amount to charge.  

On the other hand, if I were to see $23.16 shipping from Ontario in a listing and really wanted the item, I think I might question it from the start, i.e. message the seller asking for an explanation of the rather exorbitant shipping quoted.  That figure seems high even for Xpresspost, so I'd be curious at best, suspicious at worst.  If I thought I could get the item elsewhere for close to the combined shipping plus item cost, I'd shop further.  

However, if I'd paid the $23.16 without questioning it in advance, I would expect stellar shipping service, such as Xpresspost plus a small handling fee for that $23.16 from Ontario.  

Although you did accept the $23.16 shipping quote, presumably without question, it still doesn't make it proper for the seller to overcharge for handling.  So I'd say you're justified in feeling as you do.  

The difficulty really comes in whether -- or how -- to deal with the seller after the fact, having already agreed to (and paid) the amount.  Given the fact there was damage, I'd likely just file the SNAD and get my money and shipping cost back.  What do you want to bet that the seller has an outrageous "restocking fee" as well! 

In any case, IMO, slapping on a $10 handling charge is not only excessive, but short-sighted on the seller's part -- a good way to avoid repeat customers.

There is one other explanation I can think of for the extra $10, which is an equally misguided, shoot-yourself-in-the-foot business practice.  Perhaps the seller over-estimated or inadvertently overstated the shipping charge in the listing, found out the actual shipping was lower, but didn't bother to refund you the extra $10.00.  This has happened to me occasionally as a seller (actual shipping turning out lower), but then I always immediately refund any excess unless it's less than $1.00.  

Apparently in both cases your seller was too dim-witted to realize that the true shipping cost would be displayed in black and white on the shipping label.  Or didn't give a hoot.  

I wish I could think of a reasonable justification for charging a $10 handling fee, but I can't.  Maybe the seller has to drive 20km to get the nearest P.O. and thinks a $10 charge for the trip is reasonable?  It may seem so to the seller, but that's not what eBay designates as handling charges.  In fact, I'd wager a lot of sellers really don't know or understand exactly what eBay considers handling charges, or how much is too much.  It hasn't helped that eBay hasn't specified a figure. 

A final, related note: as a seller I never charge handling fees.  Just because eBay allows it, doesn't mean it's a wise business strategy.  All your seller is accomplishing is collecting an extra $10 from you to ensure you never return.  Plain stupid, or stupidly greedy of them.  Take your pick. 

[rose-dee]

As a follow-up to my post above, and since I drank too much strong tea with dessert at Thanksgiving dinner and am up late anyway, here for everybody's reference are the general guidelines regarding excessive shipping costs (from the eBay help pages):

"If an item's cost seems excessive, try to find a better deal. You can also use our Shipping Calculator to research shipping rates. It's against our policy to have unreasonable shipping charges in a listing, or to provide unclear or misleading shipping information.

Sellers are allowed to:

• Charge actual shipping costs
• Include the cost of packaging materials, insurance, and delivery
• Include delivery confirmation or extra services in the handling cost

Sellers aren't allowed to:

• Charge more than the maximum shipping costs in categories with shipping caps
• Charge a separate fee for insurance
• Charge for business-related fees such as employee wages or gas mileage
• Include contradictory or confusing shipping terms in the listing"

[momcqueen]

Thank you for the thoughtful responses, modernowl and rosedee. I appreciate the time you took to share them.

[momcqueen]

For the record, I don't think the shipping charge was a result of an accidental oversight since the seller has relisted this item and the postage amount has not been altered as one might expect may happen after an error is discovered. Also, their postage on their $650 to $990-items listed stands at $30+ in postage. 

While, as a seller, I absorb the cost of postage and offer 'free' shipping to the buyer on any of my high-end or more expensive items, the seller appears not to do so. Alternatively, a $10 handling fee on a $1000 item might make more sense-- if it requires special packaging due to fragility. My item was not especially fragile but it arrived damaged regardless. At any rate, $10 handling on a $1000 item represents a lesser percentage of the actual item cost. My objection to $10 in handling fees was also in part to it being a $50 purchase. 

I suspect the seller is using handling fees to offset or cover their Final Value Fees and associated charges like fees to PayPal. Or just add profitability to their sale. 

They're taking some time to think about whether to 'accept' my request of a return. That part of the process confuses me a bit. Returns are not my specialty, I don't deal with them often as either a seller or a buyer. 

[sylviebee]

This thread makes an excellent case for free shipping for everyone, perhaps with a surcharge for International shipments if the seller chooses.

[momcqueen]

As a buyer who routinely takes advantage of e-tailer 'free shipping' (or postage included) offers, I do now have an expectation that higher-end orders ship for free. Like, if something is priced at $678 + postage, I'm probably going to have a warmer, fuzzier feeling for an item priced at $690 with postage included.

As a seller, however, I do have a sneaking suspicion that some buyers really do think 'free' shipping has been free for the seller as well. As if Canada Post regularly gives it away. Today, it does. As part of the 'ship one thing free each Tuesday in October' but that's highly irregular.

[rose-dee]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:
As if Canada Post regularly gives it away. Today, it does. As part of the 'ship one thing free each Tuesday in October' but that's highly irregular.

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Oh, crikey!  You just reminded me that I could have got free shipping for the parcel I prepared at 2:00 a.m. today.  I was so bleary-eyed-wired by that time that it didn't even occur to me to use the Canada Post promo. 

My lapse occurred despite the fact that I have CPC's nice little October calendar they sent in the mail sitting above my desk with all the Tuesdays circled in red.  I guess this is what happens at a "certain age" when you combine several hours non-stop in the kitchen followed by a tryptophan-laden turkey dinner then a jolt of caffeine and a sweet dessert afterwards.  Brain cell meltdown.

[momcqueen]

Oh no! It's too late, I suppose, to void the PayPal label (and spend a month+ checking you did in fact get your money back) and use CPC EST instead?

[tobyshitzu]

"accomplishing is collecting an extra $10 from "

The seller isn't getting anything extra, if S&H was $10 less, the would have listed the item $10 more.  Im taking a wild guess op bought from that seller because the total price was less, not because they were hoodwinked by having part of the price as part of the S&H.  That being a problem went back to the days where there was no shipping field, and sometimes no shipping amount mentioned at all.  Sellers would tell the buyers after what the S&H was, especially with auctions where a low close could be made up with higher S&H.  That hasn't existed in years, ebay even lets people sort by total price.   Since it doesn't matter anymore, ebay doesn't even bother to count the s&h dsr for anything.

 If the seller here noticed, I'd be concerned they are making the same call to customer service to complain they think a competitor is messing with them.  That is what I'd do if I had someone selling the same thing making an issue over the shipping cost after teh bought knowing what it was. 

[momcqueen]

That could be a valid concern. But I'm not a competitor, selling what they sell. And it doesn't account for an item that arrived damaged. And I'm not 'messing' with them, I merely opened a return request because the thing in question arrived with undisclosed damage. Which made the high-cost handling fee all the less justifiable. But I can see how a seller who assumes they're being unfairly wronged could use that narrative to describe the situation if they wanted to make themselves feel better about it.

To clarify, I didn't buy from this seller because the posted item cost less. I bought from them because I wanted a Canadian seller and they came top in Best Match. There was no malice intended. I simply wanted an undamaged item, new. And, as I've said earlier, I imagined they were charging $23 in postage since they were rural or remote. I don't discriminate against sellers whose postage costs are higher than others. I do, however, resent excessive handling fees for no actual value of service rendered.

[momcqueen]

It's not like that $10 handling fee was actually utilized to ensure my order arrived safely. The opposite occurred. Either they shipped me a damaged item and merely hoped I wouldn't notice, or they spent no time, effort, or funds to ensure it arrived in the condition it left. Either way, I'm not to be held accountable as the buyer for their mistake(s) as the seller.

[momcqueen]

It was a Best Match selection, based on my located in Canada preference. And I don't feel like I should have to make any excuses for that. I don't often use Best Match to filter my purchasing choices but I did this time. There's a lesson to be taken right there. If I had to go back and re-filter the purchase by total price, it would sit in the middle. And I rarely go with cheapest total price anyway. Too many bottom-feeders, selling questionable products that way.

I don't particularly like feeling like I'm supposed to be making excuses or apologizing for a seller that violated at least two eBay policies when they shipped my order to me. How has it come to that? I won't be apologizing for speaking out against poor service and a substandard product.

[momcqueen]

The seller has not yet accepted my request for a SNAD return. Instead, they are offering a $10-refund for the not-as-described damage. Making no mention whatsoever of the handling fee issue I raised when I opened my return request. (Or that the Detailed Item Information did not match their product.)

The seller has also appealed to me as a fellow seller to accept that (they say) they will be giving this to me at cost if they offer me $10 back.

I am unsure, to be honest, about whether to accept this offer of a $10 refund as I would still be stuck with a damaged item even if I got $10 back and it's not as if the seller is saying they agree it was an excessive handling charge. 

Their offer leaves me still unsatisfied yet I don't know what else is reasonable for me to expect for resolution as a buyer in this case. 

Thoughts? 

[ypdc_dennis]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

The seller has not yet accepted my request for a SNAD return. Instead, they are offering a $10-refund for the not-as-described damage. Making no mention whatsoever of the handling fee issue I raised when I opened my return request. (Or that the Detailed Item Information did not match their product.)

The seller has also appealed to me as a fellow seller to accept that (they say) they will be giving this to me at cost if they offer me $10 back.

I am unsure, to be honest, about whether to accept this offer of a $10 refund as I would still be stuck with a damaged item even if I got $10 back and it's not as if the seller is saying they agree it was an excessive handling charge. 

Their offer leaves me still unsatisfied yet I don't know what else is reasonable for me to expect for resolution as a buyer in this case. 

Thoughts? 

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How much would it going to cost you to send it back?

That is the minimum I would ask the seller to refund.

-..-

[Anonymous]

Why any sellers charge the so-called "handling fees" is beyond me??!!  As a seller myself in Canada, I usually pack everything very well as not to bend not even slightly and ensure that the large parcels are not easily to be damaged, etc.  If need very strong sturdy boxes go to the liquor boxes, they are the best kind.  I don't charge any so-called handling charges like packaging tapes, printing labels, etc, etc., etc., it is bad enough that Canada Post gouged us the hefty postage rates, don't need to add those so-called handling charges.

Never use the boxes that Dollarama stores, they are very very bad and tend to be weak and bend so easily.  I have a next door neighbor that received a huge sturdy boxes of disposable diapers monthly and their boxes are excellent and very strong and sturdy and I use them by cutting them up for 11x14 or larger prints, lobby cards, very well protected.  The flaps from those boxes, I use for 4x6 photos.  Just love those boxes!!

As for papers to put in the boxes, I buy a package of 30 tissues for $1.00 at Dollarama stores.  I didn't like to use newspapers due to ink would be onto items unless I wrap the items with protections then I can use newspapers around them for more protection.  Also shake it to make sure nothing inside move around.  It pays to be well packed and make my buyers happy.

[i.am.vivian]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

I'm back. Having spoken now to Customer Service about this, I have officially opened a Return request for Item Not as Described due to the undisclosed damage on my order. (Also, there is a discrepancy between the seller's item title and photo and their Detailed Item Information as provided in the Product Catalogue which is for an entirely different item.)

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Good.  When you mail it back be sure to charge $23.16 for return shipping.  I'm sure the seller will find that "very reasonable".   🙂

[kitschnvintage]

I would not accept the $10,  all he is doing is giving you your over paid over charged money back ... that is not actually discounting for a damaged item in my mind ( I think I foresaw this scenario in my earlier post).  Is the item still worth anything? Is it worth the original $54 purchase price ? You could ask for a refund of $23 (or free shipping equivalent ) but I don't think he's going to fly with that because he says at $10 off  he's selling it at cost ($10 off what though ... off the $54 buy it now price or the $64 he really charged you for it... ?) I would just continue with the SNAD case with ebay, it might take you a while to get your money back but at least you will get ALL of your money back.  

[rose-dee]

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@mjwl2006 wrote:

The seller has also appealed to me as a fellow seller to accept that (they say) they will be giving this to me at cost if they offer me $10 back.

Oh, poor seller, cry me a river, I'd say that's a ludicrous argument.  They send you a damaged item, charge an excessive handling fee, pack the item poorly, then expect you to be satisfied with a refund that represents the excess they charged?  Do you have a sense for whether the "at cost" plea is anywhere near accurate?  Presumably you know the value of these items.  

Rationally speaking, if that $10 meant the difference between profit or no profit, why didn't the seller roll the extra $10 into the item price to begin with, charge a reasonable shipping amount, and pack it carefully?  

How experienced does this seller appear to be from the FB history?  I'd say you either have a complete dolt on your hands or a seller who is deliberately hoping to pull the wool over buyers' eyes and get away with it.  Or maybe both... 

[tobyshitzu]

" why didn't the seller roll the extra $10 into the item price to begin with, charge a reasonable shipping amount"

What difference would that make to anyone invovled?  50$+free shippping, $40+$10 shipping, $30+$20 shipping. SAME THING fro alll invovled

[rose-dee]

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@toby**bleep**zu wrote:

The seller isn't getting anything extra, if S&H was $10 less, the would have listed the item $10 more.  

But evidently not, since the seller is now claiming they'd be giving the item away at cost if they refunded the $10 to 'mj'.  Which I find a totally specious argument.  The seller is gouging, pure and simple. 

 If the seller here noticed, I'd be concerned they are making the same call to customer service to complain they think a competitor is messing with them.  That is what I'd do if I had someone selling the same thing making an issue over the shipping cost after teh bought knowing what it was. 

Except that, in charging an excessive handling fee (at least in relation to the item price), and apparently giving no value at all to the OP for that fee, the seller is directly violating eBay policy and should be careful about pointing fingers elsewhere.  Besides, what does it matter if the buyer is a competitor if the damage is legitimate and the handling has been confirmed as excessive by eBay CS?  For the seller to complain to eBay that a buyer may be a competitor because they are returning a damaged item and objecting to an excessive handling fee would be a stupid move for someone who is gouging.  

Sellers in glass houses...

Actually, the seller gave the OP negative value for that $10, not using the money to pack the item in a new box with new packing materials.  So the seller kept the OP's $10, and paid nothing at their end by re-purposing old packing stuff.  I think frankly this is just a very foolish seller, trying to make their profit by padding handling fees.