How about going against the flow?

I just read a thread that outraged me,  the thread suggested that instead of bringing up issues with recent eBay decisions, we should all sit back and just accept it and move on.   

 

This offends me intellectually and morally.  If people believe change is needed or that a decisions is unfair, then absolutely they should speak out and make their voices heard.  That is the only way change ever comes about or problems ever solved.

 

Sticking you head in the sand or simply being a good little follower is weak willed and cowardly.  Our opinions matter and we have every right to voice them without being told by the 'cheerleading' crowd that we should stay silent.  

 

So please ignore that other thread and make your voices and concerns heard.

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Re: How about going against the flow?

A seller protects themself by doing everything... right...Always with the buyer's happiness in mind

 

Certain categories do tend to result in a high scam situation...

 

New sellers to eBay also appear to be scam targets....

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Before someone starts selling on eBay,  that person should stand in front of a mirror and ask...  Who am I?   and be  very honest

 

Some people are not meant to sell whether on eBay.. elsewhere on the internet,, or in a B& M...

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The size of eBay... and the inclusion of many,, many categories where people can sell... means that some of the rules are quite strict...  and sometimes must be applied in a quite strict manner.

 

A seller must adjust in relation to rules.....  A seller must establish an acceptable procedure for selling....  such that buyer's are happy and nothing else...

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A new seller on eBay must follow a learning protocol...  meet certain requirements....  must follow a set of rules.....  and then after a period of time...after proving themselves as good sellers....they can then sell at a much higher level..... always being measured in relation to eBay's rules.

 

Establish a routine  that makes buyer's happy and sell... sell.. sell

 

Following the rules  is easier in some categories....  and that is why sellers must be careful with what they sell, and how they choose to sell on eBay..

Message 21 of 73
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Re: How about going against the flow?

 

A buyer doesn't have to prove themselves before they can purchase items without restriction, so why should a seller have to prove themselves before they can be paid before shipping?  Sellers are risking just as much and are protected far less.

 

you keep skirting the issue.  

Message 22 of 73
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Re: How about going against the flow?

The only cheerleaders I hear are my buyers....

 

And after thousands of sales.... They cheer very, very, very loud....

 

 

 

 

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Re: How about going against the flow?

Good day to you all from the land down under..

 

OP the advice you have been given comes from very experienced eBay sellers & I was also fortunate to draw on the same when I commenced trading on eBay 12 years ago.

 

Now riddle me this .......if you are so unhappy with eBay policies(I am not a fan of all of the them) then why are you here ?

 

I choose to trade on Ebay so I follow the rules

 

Now before you jump to conclusions let me state that I am by no means a huge trader (approx.800 sales & the same amount of purchases in a niche market) & in that time I have had 3 INR,3 UPI & 3 INR as a buyer.

 

I found early on that planning & preparation prevents p... poor performance.

 

Also please don't tell me that I have been lucky.......I have used the tools that eBay provides.

 

I too have been subject to the 21 Day hold when I took a 12 month break from selling......no big deal.....in my previous business life I have waited 180 days to get paid & on occaisons not at all.......welcome to the real world.

 

Best regards & I trust you can find a way to trade profitably & pleasantly.

Message 24 of 73
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Re: How about going against the flow?

You talk about going against the flow, but even the craziest psychopath Bad-*** Hell's Angels types have to go along with eBay's rules if they want to sell here.

 

 

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Re: How about going against the flow?

Dont think you've made enough effort to understand how things work.  Even if you 'have the money" right away, it can be reversed long afterward.  Just lost the money from one over 5 months ago from a claim of unauthorized credit card use.  Thats long otusddie the time frame my Canadian creidt cards even allow for disputing a transaction.  Makes no difference if you have the money or its held, its at risk just the same.  I've lost money even with tracking where the scammer just re addresssed teh label and dropped it back in the mail so tracking showed delivered, then started again and ended up at a diffeent address. No paypal protection as it ened up at wrong address, no Canada Post inusrance snce they could see it did end up at the proper address at one point.  There is always a risk,   but it doesnt happen very often.

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Re: How about going against the flow?

cumoss 55 wrote; I thought it was a ?horse?  being led to water....

 

Camels our stubborn. Leading them to water is easy, making them drink, that hard. As in this case.

 

People will have their opinions and no matter how wrong or how much evidence there is to the contrary they will still choose to believe they are right

Message 27 of 73
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Re: How about going against the flow?

"... but it doesnt happen very often."

 

Quite true.

 

There is so much paranoia on these boards at times that folks lose track of reality. 

 

Yes there is abuse of the system and fraud by some (despite all the prevention measures by eBay and PayPal). 

Yes sellers are always liable on eBay and anywhere else when selling online and accepting credit card payments, directly or indirectly. 

The overall level of abuse/fraud is generally small and should be costed by sellers as a "cost of doing business" just like brick and mortar stores allocate a small percentage to cover shoplifting and pilferage.

 

Nobody likes it, nobody thinks it is a "good thing" but let's not get carried away thinking it is a major problem.

 

Now, I accept the fact that some sellers do not have a high level of risk tolerance.  It is a "no win" situation for them.

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Re: How about going against the flow?

Re: How about going against the flow?

My area of expertise... Agriculture

 

My specialty... Animal Agriculture... Beef cattle primarily......dairy cattle, sheep, swine, poultry in passing....and to a much lesser degree horses...

 

My area of application of my expertise....  Western Canada.

 

No expertise with respect to camels. other than the understanding that a camel is a ruminant..

Message 30 of 73
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Re: How about going against the flow?

Maybe the camel does not need the water....at that specific time

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From the internet...

 

Camels have a series of physiological adaptations that allow them to withstand long periods of time without any external source of water.

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A very interesting type of adaptation..

 

and based on what I read... It has nothing to do with the Hump...

Message 31 of 73
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Re: How about going against the flow?

Like a camel.....Canadian sellers have learned how to adapt...

 

 what to adjust in selling practices in order to be an effective seller....

 

and above all...

 

Know what NOT to do... to be successful

 

We accept the reality of eBay... and know what to do before a problem is encountered.....

 

 

Message 32 of 73
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Re: How about going against the flow?


@pjcdn2005 wrote:

ONCE AGAIN

A seller having to wait for their money does not affect your seller buyer protection. If you don't understand that, please read my posts earlier in this thread. 

 


@dark_phoenix9273 wrote:

Yes it does, because if the buyer chooses to scam you then you are left without the money and the item, it's really easy for them to do.

 

And a seller getting paid before shipping doesn't hinder a buyers protection either,  they are still covered by both Ebay and paypal.


smh

I don't know why I'm bothering because you are obviously not paying attention to the posts but I'll try one last time.

 

What do you think 'covered by eBay and Paypal means'?  It means that if for some reason the buyer needs to be refunded, eBay or Paypal will take the money out of your account. If you have already been paid then the money comes out of your Paypal account.  If the account is empty I'm not sure if they are allowed to take it out of your backup bank account or back up cc account but they will eventually get the money from you.

 

 

Message 33 of 73
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Re: How about going against the flow?

I'm pretty sure dark_phoenix9273 got it long ago.

 

I also found it annoying when I started selling on a different (not new) eBay id and eBay held the money for what seemed like a very long time.

I've had a steady flow of money coming and going from my paypal account for well over a decade so there was no valid reason to hold that money in paypal.

 

 

In addition, other sites don't hold the money the way eBay does.  For example, I can sell something on Etsy and the money is at my disposal immediately.

 

 

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Re: How about going against the flow?

And still people dodge the main issue.  And don't answer the question.

 

Why are sellers automatically distrusted while buyers are trusted right away?   If a seller were to be paid right away instead of after the buyer receives how exactly does that hurt the buyer, given they are already protected? 

 

And you ask why go against the flow?  Because thats the only way change has ever happened.   Everyone always thinks change is impossible until it happens.

Message 35 of 73
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Re: How about going against the flow?

"Everyone always thinks change is impossible until it happens."

 

Guess what.  I totally agree with you on that.

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Re: How about going against the flow?

And still people dodge the main issue.  And don't answer the question.

 

Why are sellers automatically distrusted while buyers are trusted right away?   If a seller were to be paid right away instead of after the buyer receives how exactly does that hurt the buyer, given they are already protected? 

 

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Re: How about going against the flow?

And still people dodge the main issue.  And don't answer the question.

 

Why are sellers automatically distrusted while buyers are trusted right away?  

 

The answer to this I believe is simply statistics. In a situation where the only evidences are seller's word vs  Buyer's word, You obviously cannot rely on hard proofs. You have to apply blanket rules. 

 

Ebay likely calculated that it is overall better for business to not anger Buyers. Even if that means potentially angering a seller. 

 

There are more buyers than sellers. Buyers do not know how things work from the perspective of a seller. Nor do they care. When they feel wronged they are likely to never come back and tell all their friends that ebay sucks balls. 

 

Of course some scammers rip off some sellers thanks to these rules. 

 

But once again: 

statistics.png

 

In close to 1500 sales, I have never been scammed even once.  Of course I had some unfair requests from buyers, but those are very rare, overall less than 1%. They result in some kind of loss, but they are not scam.

 

My seller rating is very high despite the fact that I dont even ship tracked. Am I lucky? Maybe a little bit I dunno. But I guess in average buyers are all not that bad after all.  

 

Also remember that a seller being victim of a scam will report the buyer. That might not get his money back, but the same account cannot scam repeatedly. They will be banned by ebay after being reported repeatedly.

 

If a seller were to be paid right away instead of after the buyer receives how exactly does that hurt the buyer, given they are already protected? 

 

 

It does not hurt the buyer, it hurts ebay. The point here is ebay/paypal protecting themselves.

 

Basically they guarantee the buyer satisfaction. If a new seller turns out to be a scammer, the buyer will be refunded. If the scammer was paid immediately he will probably just disappear with the money and ebay has to take the hit, or invest resources pursuing the scammer.  By freezing money for new  sellers, ebay avoids all this **bleep**.

 

Message 38 of 73
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Re: How about going against the flow?

In addition, other sites don't hold the money the way eBay does.  For example, I can sell something on Etsy and the money is at my disposal immediately.

 

That wasn't my experience this winter when I revived my etsy account to see if selling there had improved.

Not only did they Hold my payments, but I paid more to list there than I grossed in sales.

Message 39 of 73
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Re: How about going against the flow?

Why are sellers automatically distrusted while buyers are trusted right away?   If a seller were to be paid right away instead of after the buyer receives how exactly does that hurt the buyer, given they are already protected?

 

I am pretty certain that if Ebay lost 50% of their buyers, they would go under as a company. But if they lost 50% of their Sellers, life would go on, so the reason is that Buyers are more important than the Sellers.

Message 40 of 73
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