Quick Synopsis of Friday's eBay Talk from someone absent from the Fun!!

[shoplineca]

Questions were asked and answers wers sometimes given. They were clearly well-thought answers. I did a quick analysis of some:

Re: Concern over Cdns wanting to do a country search.
Gary suggested people look for value first.
This is true for many countries however with the prospect of duties, courier costs, inflated handling costs by US sellers, taxes and brokerage fees, many if not most Cdns are now shopping only from Cdn Sellers.
Gary's comments therefore reflect a lack of true understanding about Cdn buyers today on eBay.

Re: Marketing.
In 2003 tv ads were tested in BC with considerable success according to Gary.
Then why wouldnt that program, 2-years later be extended throughout Canada?
He relied on advertsing in other printed media where eBay markets itself and on the internet however much of that other printed media is in US publications that are sold in Canada.

Re: Customer Service Support.
Gary said that eBay Canada has a much smaller staff however there were definate benefits to scale.
The only benefit it scale is in keeping eBay's expenses down to produce greater profits for the s/h at the expense of increased fees we pay and poor or non existent customer service.

Re: Taxes
Gary agreed that with eBay and Payapl, the Cdn tax situation in invoicing is not satisfactory and stated that it was a complicated matter.
I find this very difficult to understand when we have but 10 provinces, many with a similar tax rate yet there are 51 states with many varying rates that they have produced a program for their use which has been in use for years.

Re: Marketing and Potential Buyers.
Gary stated that eBay generated the greatest number of visits in Canada over any other e-commerce site however this includes Sellers. What would the percentage look like if the daily hits by Sellers was totally eliminated?

eBay is a US Company with several satellite communities of which we are one. I think that we, as Cdns take too much for granted that what is good or given to our US counterparts is to be given and should be good for us. This is because so many Cdns travel to the US and do so much business with Americans compared to the other way around, we feel closer to them in more ways than they do to us.

My bottom line over eBay is quite simple. If we are not being delivered, doolar for dollar the same service, due to benefits of scale or whatever other reason, we should not be paying the same fees as the US Sellers are.

If eBay is not spending, prorata, the same advertsing dollars on television in Canada as they are in the US to bring customers to eBay to purchase from us, then rebate some of our fees.

If we dont receive the same promotional materials (coffee mugs, car stickers etc.) then rebate our fees.

If eBay and PayPal cant provide us with the same integrated tools such as tax calulations in invoicing as they do for the US Sellers, then rebate some of our fees.

If there arent sufficient customer support people available to Cdn PSers as there are for the US Sellers to answer our questions, then rebate some of our fees.

On one hand eBay proclaims a level playing field however we are the ones who are short-changed. The fees we pay are providing additional benefits and tools to our US competitors. There is NOTHING level about the eBay playing field. It is completely one-sided.

Malcolm

[mirakbiz_inc]

Very well said Malcolm

I just wish ebay (starting by Gary) listen to our concerns and DO SOMETHING !

[sunward-hobbies]

Malcolm:
Well done indeed.

mirakbiz:
I have given up waiting for change. Simply put, ebay has so much in revenue and no competition, they don't need to listen. Only when revenue starts going down, will they listen and do something.

Angelo

[shoplineca]

I am hoping, for whatever it is worth, that these types of Feedback threads will be read and some level of merit will be attached to them.

I dont think of Canada as a 2nd rate country, it is just too bad others apparently do and treat us as such.

Malcolm

[audioshack]

eBay has had little incentive to make changes to a system that is heavily weighted in the favour of the company or buyers. They have long viewed sellers, in general, as a commodity.

eBay has always seemed, IMHO, to be of a mind that sellers will endure any cost, lack of service or injustice to fight tooth and nail over a single buyer for the opportunity to break even.

Their arrogance as a company is well documented. From Meg's recent publicized dismissal of a relatively new rival as insignificant to exhorbitant fees for new or old services (I refuse to use many of the additional auction add-ons) to a general increase that cripples store owners, eBay demonstrates regularily that only their bottom line matters.

Before someone points it out - yes, I know that all corporations are concerned about the bottom line but eBay continues to feed us this "community" PR that suggests that they are in this with sellers and buyers. I maintain that sellers are on their own and we all need to absolutely minimize our costs and continually be watching for opportunites to move away from this venue.

If eBay wants to treat me only as another customer I have the same right to treat them only as another supplier of a service and to demand that they remain competitive. I am now as stingy with my dollars as they are with theirs and they get as many freebies from me as I get from them.

In my case, 13 months ago I was paying in excess of $1800 CAD a month in fees to eBay for just one of my selling IDs - for April my fees will be less than $350 CAD for all of my selling IDs. Do I sell less on eBay? YOU BET!!! Do I sell less - no, my sales have actually increased. I just don't depend on eBay the way I once did. I will express my sincere thanks to them for the lack of service that enraged me enough to break my eBay habit.

I guess I am just one seller that, after 5 years on eBay, has just about reached the end of my life cycle here. I don't see myself as being alone in this. I am aware that many sellers that I have dealt with over the years have closed their eBay doors and moved on or have greatly scaled back. Their common complaints are the high-handed manner with which the company deals with sellers or the sharp increases in costs without a corresponding increase in sales or profitability.

eBay needs to re-invent itself and soon. Otherwise, more and more sellers will depart the venue leaving the high profit expectations of the company to fewer and fewer to bear. From time to time the company makes noises like they are prepared to change but then you get a performance like yesterday that illustrates how ingrained their arrogance is. "sigh"

Last one out get the lights.

[systemagic]

An even briefer synopsis: "Advertising & Customer Service are expensive."

SO IS EBAY!

I stick to my prognosis. As long as eBay is taking a gluttonous share of the profits then they'll henceforth consistently have a resentful and grudging relationship, at best, with their sellers instead of what might have been. Sellers are arguably the most valuable component of any business formula. Seller resentment (necessity to survive) is a powerful little back-eddy that will, in future, wear eBay down and give rise to alternatives.

[auctiondropnship]

Very well said

[knarfdotca]

Malcolm, as always you bring up some very interesting and valid points.

[ospreylinks]

Very well said Malcolm. I am with audioshack (did I get that right). We have scaled back our listings as well and have significantly decreased the fees paid to Ebay.

In actual fact our Ebay sales have remained fairly static, but we now review our listings, try to combine items on listings and only attempt to list items that have a reasonable chance of sell-through.

(Okay, now someone can comment on how I am doing it all wrong!).

Bottom line, we are spending more time and resources on our traditional brick and motar operation. We are advertising and selling more direct to our members via electronic media (with no cost) and constantly revising Ebay as a distribution channel. And yes Ebay, you have been directly responsible for our reassessment....so thanks for being so greedy, you now get less, but our sales are up and costs of advertising are down.

Jeff

[audioshack]

An image just popped into my head of Meg in a toga with a violin while the company burns around her... (shudder).

She continues to try to convince analysts that all is well despite a plummeting stock price, investor dissatisfaction, nine months of fewr buyers and an enraged seller population.

Where do I get my rose colored glasses?

[ospreylinks]

"Let them eat cake"!!!!

Jeff

[shoplineca]

I will supply her the violin!

Malcolm

[shoplineca]

As of last week I now have 2 new distibutors, both former customers, one in Mississauga and the other in Nova Scotia. This is in addition to a couple of others that are selling and distributing for me in their towns.

Some are doing it part time and some are doing it full-time but these sales will more than replace what I had been doing through eBay.

In addition, I will be shipping larger quantities so my need for CP (whose actions have been just as draconic as eBay with respect to fee hikes and no additional benefits) will no longer be the same.

Do I have either one of them to thank? Not on your life. I would like to be selling the same quantity on eBay in addition to the new partnerships I have developed but greed for bleeding profits from me for providing a simple selling venue means I will not be as active in this format.

It is not unlike the Ottawa Citizen which has about 80% of the Ottawa readership. I priced placing a Saturday classified ad to sell a few computer items totalimg about $500. The cost for the one-day ad would have been $127.

The paper's classified section for home sales and rentals, items for sale, lost pets, jobs etc is seldom more than 10 pages for a population exceeding 1 million.

So is the paper making more money charging sky-high advertising prices for fewer ads or making less money? I
would suggest they are making less money as the more ads you run, the greater chance of increasing your readership.

The cost of printing those extra ads is negligible and there are no additional handling costs in distribution and delivery.

So the greed amongst the large corporations continues until they reach that critical point where their profits and in fact their income turns into losses and their ability to turn things around is severely challenged due to the amount of goodwill that has been lost amongst its originally loyal clients.

Malcolm

[imagi.nation]

Malcolm:

Have you ever checked out listing on Craigslist (craigslist dot com)? It's a pretty popular free alternative to newspaper classified ads and they do have an Ottawa section that seems to have a fair bit of traffic.

To make this "sort of" on topic -- eBay owns shares in Craigslist. 😉

Cheers,
Ernie.

[shoplineca]

Ernie
I actually use alot of free online listing services for various things to sell where I dont believe eBay would bring me the right audience. As an example, the computer components are on about 10 different sites right now.

On those sites, we run a simple listing with a link to a specific web page with pics and descriptions of what we are trying to sell.

I was more trying to make a general comment about how these services were small one time, and recently they have taken advantage of those that have been there to support them in the past.

While not able to make any claim of being with eBay for 5 or 6 years, I feel that the price hikes of the last 2-years I have gone through have had a detrimental affect on my ability to sell in the maner I originally felt would work best for me on eBay and give me the returns I anticipated.

Not unlike our one major local newspaper, when these industried CONTROL the marketplace because of lack of competition, they believe they can contimue doing so on the backs of those who are currently supporting them.

However one by one, people adjust and move on to either market their wares in another fashion or change careers compeletly.

Malcolm

[imagi.nation]

That's very true. The fact that you list on 10 different sites right now shows that "traditional" ad venues will have to reconsider their pricing policies as more people learn on their own (and from their friends, relatives, etc.) that they can find a market of buyers at a much lower rate and quite often with less competition.

Ernie.

[vesivus]

Hello Malcolm. I find it funny that none of my points were listed in your summary...? Did you only list the ones you were concerned about?

John

[shoplineca]

John
I did a quick reveiew as I stated and tried to comment on what I thought were more general statements made about eBay and Power Sellers not specific ones.

First off, you received more direct answers from Gary Briggs than anyone else which was directly in response the the number of questions you raised over others posting.

Many responses were fairly conclusive in stating that an answer would be forthcoming on a specific problem within a certain time frame as eBay was currently working on a fix. I found no need to comment on something like that where I felt your questions were answered directly and with a time frame for correcting a situation in favour of the Sellers.

In a couple of other areas, you addressed personal problems with an outstanding negative FB when calling the buyer and getting the buyer's mother and your complaint about that being an invalid contact. Gary returned to you to ask if you reported it to eBay, a point you did mention when you raised the question.

He also shared that he had a negative FB but used the eBay system to leave comments about the Buyer but he just wasnt sure how the eBay system failed you on that one.

I can tell you that the final answer would be that the contact info was valid as your buyer could have been living with her/his mother, a situation which is acceptable to eBay as having valid contact info. The fact that they hung up or refused to talk to you has nothing to do with invalid contact information.

At the same time you brought up another personal situation about reporting competitors' auctions, where some lie and of keyword spamming etc., but you didnt ask anything or express any specific problem you are having with eBay about it aside from competitors doing something that affects your business. Gary responded and said they took the matter seriously and asked you if you reported it to eBay and if there was a problem resulting from that.

The mechanism for reporting is in place. Had you said it failed despite numerous attempts to report and that you never received any response from eBay, meaning poor customer service then Gary would have had to respond by making a statement that they were improving the service or that he wanted specifics from you to investigate why the system failed.

You suggested the small packet problem with CP and asked if there was anything eBay could do about it and you received confirmation that Gary would bring the matter up with CP.

At the same time, both are independant businesses and your best bet is to negotiate your rates directly with CP, contact local or National Small Business Associations, write to the Ombudsmen for CP, and so on.

eBay is not a Buying group for the Sellers and while they may negotiate on behalf of the Sellers with CP, they will be looking for something back itself from CP, thereby minimizing what will be available to you.

You asked about what the benefits were to being a bronze power seller. Gary partially answered by advising of the 24/7 email support but he could have also referred you to the published benefits which include a logo placed next to your userid on all listings which you can also use on business cards and other stationery, free attendance for their 'on the road' training sessions etc.

Of course, in the end the biggest benefit is this Board and the US Board because we are able to tap the resources of other sellers, some more eBay experienced and some more business experienced and some, just with a different prospective which is equally important.

Again, had you stated that the 24/7 email support was not working, that would have been the issue that Gary would have to address on behalf of eBay, you simply asked what the benefits were and you recd a response.

When I was doing my quick review, it was to pick those general (and not specific) examples of where eBay seems to be etting us down contrary to what Gary stated.

I addressed poor customer service, the very point I believe that you were trying to make in your 2 examples of specific problems you were having as well as your question about benefits of being a bronze Power Seller.

So 3 of your specific questions were indeed covered by me as that is the heart of the problem as they affected you in those situations. Had eBay c/s responded in a timely manner with direct answers as to what they are doing or why the negative FB remains 6 mos later, you would at least be satisfied that they looked into the matter and dealt with it, even though the end result may not be to your liking.

The CP matter is really between you and CP, although Gary suggested he would take it up with CP in the future.

I didnt set out to attack Gary on every question raised and every answer given. I looked at the broad issue of what was said by eBay in response to questions and concerns raised and feel that I captured most of the main points including yours.

Malcolm