eBay

realjazz-123 · ‎07-31-2014

A few days ago I called eBay to get help in cancelling a bid from a buyer in a country to which I do not ship. Following the directions given to me on the phone when I was still the phone, I cancelled the bid for the shipping reason. The buyer accepted the cancellation in about an hour. THIS ACTION LED TO A DEFECT FOR ME!

I just spoke to eBay and was now told the proper way was to first email the buyer and and let buyer initiate the cancellation. I was also told that the defect I got although from bad advice would stay on my record.

I write to give you all heads up any time a cancellation is in order. As seller, do not offer to do it. Let buyer do it first.

triber · ‎08-03-2014

I really think that with the fees that we pay, we at least need one person who can give advise here. So many sellers have the same questions, we do deserve an answer. Someone has to be checking this board because sometimes a link is removed for some reason.

pierrelebel · ‎08-03-2014

"Someone has to be checking this board"

The boards are monitored by Lithium, under contract from eBay, to assure posting policies are respected.

If the monitor from Lithium feels there is an infraction to the posting policies, the post may be deleted or "edited" (we see a lot of that).

Several weeks ago, management at eBay.ca confirmed that they no longer have the staff to read posts or threads and answer questions or inquiries other than that one hour on Wednesday. The position of discussion board manager has been eliminated.

triber · ‎08-03-2014

Thanks Pierre, that's sad!

mr.elmwood · ‎08-03-2014

In days gone by, eBay made money from what we did. eBay grew. They now make money from money. We are, at best, anecdotal.

eBay now has such a metric as "enabled commerce volume". For 2013 is was some $203 Billion, worldwide. What do you figure we contributed to that besides not much.

We are very much, yesterdays news.

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rose-dee · ‎08-03-2014

@mr.elmwood wrote:

eBay now has such a metric as "enabled commerce volume". For 2013 is was some $203 Billion, worldwide.

What the heck is "enabled commerce volume"? Strange moniker...

Regarding the cancellation issue, I agree with 'pj' that sellers who refund in full should follow up with a cancellation -- for the right reason(s).

This was discussed at length on the boards (including the Wed. discussion) when the defect system was first announced. The eBay.ca staff said at that time that the procedure after a full refund should be to make sure the transaction is cancelled, to avoid a defect -- as long as the cancellation is not for the two reasons associated with seller fault, i.e. "I ran out of stock" or "I sold item to another buyer". It wasn't made completely clear whether "Other" was a safe cancellation choice, but based on what 'toby**bleep**zu' has said above, it probably is.

It was also pointed out by eBay.ca staff that the buyer should ask for the cancellation, even if (as I mentioned earlier) this means "prompting" the buyer to make the ask via eBay messages. If the "ask" isn't verifiable, the cancellation may still result in a defect, even if the correct reason for cancellation was chosen by the seller.

I've had no problems so far with partial refunds - no defects have resulted.

mr.elmwood · ‎08-03-2014

I have only seen this attached to eBay. I have not seen any rebuttals to the concept.

"Enabled commerce volume is the total commerce and payment volume across all three business units, consisting of Marketplaces gross merchandise volume, PayPal merchant services net total payment volume and GSI global ecommerce merchandise sales."

That caused me to find the following. I "think" this quote, from JD, hi-lites why some sellers are getting left behind. This isn't yer grandfather's eBay any more.

“Led by mobile, a commerce revolution is under way,” said eBay Inc. President and CEO John Donahoe. “Technology is creating a new web-enabled retail interface, a new seamless, multiscreen commerce experience that connects consumers anytime, anywhere. This will expand shopping beyond conventional store environments and e-commerce sites. How we shop is being transformed, and eBay Inc. intends to be a leader in this new commerce world.”

My take on what JD said? Think outside the box. Re-think the box. I "think" this plays to "Re: eBay advice led to defect". Getting in a jam over a refund is staying in the box. Sellers are not expecting the unexpected and then get broad-sided by it. I always expect the unexpected. It doesn't always go well, but, I am prepared for everything, on some level, whether it is eBay life or real life.

eBay has no real customer service any longer. It will get further reduced. Basically they are saying that if you can't figure this out, you do not belong here. Cold? Sure. Hard hearted? Yup. Turning their backs on loyal supporters? You bet.

$203 billion and projections are $300 Billion for 2015. A 50% increase in two years. You think they care, on any level, about our penny ante defects?

The on-line eBay site, I believe, is a loss leader. They keep it around as it funnels traffic into all their other, Paypal, money making divisions. If they could, they would sell us off to the Chinese, in a heartbeat. Ya having trouble understanding Peggy in the Philippines? Wait for Peggy in China. Yeah, you will be phoning China for help in how to compete against the Chinese. Lemme think about that for a minute.

Communication to the Mother Ship is going away. Skype went away. eBay live, eBay on location, Vancouver office, most of Toronto, call centres in the US went away.

Ya think they did not sit around the boardroom table and laugh hysterically when they came up with the term "defect"? Of course they did. They don't care and never will again.

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pierrelebel · ‎08-06-2014

UPDATE -

When asked about this problem, the answer given by staff at eBay.ca:

This is a very unfortunate CS error.

1) The 2nd CSR has the right answer

2) The correct procedure is what was recommended by the 2nd CSR, to either get the buyer to initiate the cancellation or at least create a "paper trail" in eBay messages so that anyone reviewing the case can tell it wasn't a seller cancellation due to a break in stock or lack of willingness to complete the transaction.

3) It's never great when wrong advice is given. The best way to handle this would be to contact CS again and explain what happened, and that you want to appeal the case. The CSR should be able to route the call appropriately.

http://community.ebay.ca/t5/Weekly-Board-Hour-Session/August-6th-2014-Weekly-Board-Hour/m-p/255879/h...

Post #7

mr.elmwood · ‎08-06-2014

That Pierre is my point. Our OP relied, inside the box, on an incorrect answer.

"Oh yeah, well, if you can't rely on eBay's CS, who can you rely on?"

That is my, point, you can't. It will continue to get worse until they do away with all Peggy's entirely.

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rose-dee · ‎08-06-2014

@mr.elmwood wrote:
That Pierre is my point. Our OP relied, inside the box, on an incorrect answer.
"Oh yeah, well, if you can't rely on eBay's CS, who can you rely on?"
That is my, point, you can't. It will continue to get worse until they do away with all Peggy's entirely.

I think this is true, except that it seems that sellers who persist (i.e. spend a lot of their own time) do seem to eventually get mistakes reversed.

Although I agree with your comments above, I'm not certain a mistake was made by the 2nd CSR in this instance (obviously the 1st CSR was uninformed, which is often the case - it takes 2 or 3 calls to get the real answer from CS).

The reason the 2nd answer was right is that when the defect system was first announced, it was made clear by the eBay.ca staffers that without the buyer's "ask" occurring first, through eBay messages, even if the "correct" cancellation reason was chosen, a defect would result. In fact, one of those staffers said that in the event of a disagreement over whether a cancellation was a defect or not, eBay would "look at" the messages between buyer and seller. What exactly that means, and by whom, who knows?

Still, as I mentioned earlier, anytime I have to deal with a cancellation that is not my fault, I follow the above procedure. So far, so good.

mdf_jersey · ‎08-06-2014

Well I guess Ebay has taken some lessons from Walmart and are now paying CRS employees same wages. Your not going to get a lot bright people at $6.50 an hr. LOL

Ive got to much time on my hands

tobyshitzu · ‎08-06-2014

Service would probably be good if they paid 6.50 an hour. They moved to the philippines so they wouldn't have to

"he starting salary for a call centre worker in the Philippines is between 12,000 and 15,000 pesos per month ($278 – $348)."

pocomocomputing · ‎08-06-2014

@mr.elmwood wrote:
That Pierre is my point. Our OP relied, inside the box, on an incorrect answer.

"Oh yeah, well, if you can't rely on eBay's CS, who can you rely on?"

That is my, point, you can't. It will continue to get worse until they do away with all Peggy's entirely.

According to this week's session with eBay Canada staff, post 8 by Bryan says

Customer service reps are professionally trained and have all information at their disposal. When they are unable to answer questions they will find the answer for inbound callers at a later time.

I wonder what eBay means by professionally trained and by they will find the answer for inbound callers at a later time? I have read here in these forums as well as the USA forums that CS reps promise to call back or a supervisor will call back and no one calls.

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-06-2014

That's ridiculous. In a situation like that, it's unlikely that the buyer is going to initiate the cancellation as he bid because he wanted the item and probably didn't realize that the seller did not ship to that country. I'm sure that some buyers would be upset and not agree to the cancellation.

In the original post the OP said "I just spoke to eBay and was now told the proper way was to first email the buyer and and let buyer initiate the cancellation." So how exactly should that be done since the buyer can't actually cancel. Should the seller write to the buyer....

"Sorry buyer but I don't ship to your country so can you please write me to tell me that you want the transaction cancelled. Yes, I know you want the item but I'm not going to send it anyway so just tell me you want it cancelled"

That just sounds dumb. In this situation it shouldn't really matter whether or not it was buyer initiated as the seller did not ship to their country. I suppose it could be said that the seller is partially at fault as their listings weren't set up fully to block buyers from that country but many seller's don't understand that blocking such buyers is not just a one step process.

I suspect that even if there was 'a paper trail' showing that the buyer asked to cancel the transaction and the seller used the same choice of cancellation reasons that they originally used that they would still get a defect and that the only way to get that reversed would be to phone cs and ask them to look at the paper trail. What a waste of time for the seller and customer service.

Sorry for the rant but it makes absolutely no sense to me that we have to involve the buyers in some of these situations. I've read on the .com boards about sellers asking buyers to phone ebay because they made a mistake when filling out the dsr's. Even though there was an obvious paper trail, cs told the seller that the buyer would have to personally confirm it. Does ebay really think that it is good for a buyer to have to phone ebay and wait and then explain the situation? In one case, it took the buyer 3 or 4 tries to get the dsr removed. I don't agree that the sellers asked the buyers to do that but it is silly that ebay made that a requirement.

rose-dee · ‎08-06-2014

"Customer service reps are professionally trained and have all information at their disposal." Oh yes, poco, that was the "smile of the day" for me! I couldn't believe Bryan would honestly say this with a straight face at the other end, knowing all the reported problems with CS (haven't we all had them). Also, surely he must know that Paypal CS is a dream in comparison. My impression is that the eBay CSRs are "professionally trained" to read off the policy sheets and have a 3-ring binder of such at their disposal - basically what anybody can find on the "Help" tab. Once you get into applying judgment or common sense, they seem lost.

pierrelebel · ‎08-06-2014

"Customer service reps are professionally trained and have all information at their disposal. When they are unable to answer questions they will find the answer for inbound callers at a later time."

All I can say is: http://pierrelebel.com/pics/flags/1face.gif

mdf_jersey · ‎08-06-2014

I wonder what eBay means by professionally trained

LOL.....They mean that they have been trained to speak English. This way they can read their answer charts. They are now professionals. You really have to read between the lines

thecoinhunterca · ‎08-17-2014

Well, I don't see it. I recently did a paypal refund for a transaction without opening a case and acquired no defect. Even if it was the case (maybe just not enough time has passed in my case) how will Ebay handle partial refunds?

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
@thecoinhunterca wrote:
Simple solution is to refund the buyer but not cancel the transaction (As long as the buyer tries to resolve the issue via email prior to opening a case which everyone in the community should be promoting). It will cost you the commission but you will not have a defect. Many sellers will have to resort to this tactic if they want to keep it under 2%. Ebay will gladly keep your money in exchange for not giving you a defect.
Sorry but that won't work. If the seller does not file for a cancellation, ebay will assume that it is seller cancelled and will give the seller a defect. I have 2 defects for that reason and there was no case opened in either situation.

pjcdn2005 · ‎08-17-2014

@thecoinhunterca wrote:
Well, I don't see it. I recently did a paypal refund for a transaction without opening a case and acquired no defect. Even if it was the case (maybe just not enough time has passed in my case) how will Ebay handle partial refunds?
@pjcdn2005 wrote:
@thecoinhunterca wrote:
Simple solution is to refund the buyer but not cancel the transaction (As long as the buyer tries to resolve the issue via email prior to opening a case which everyone in the community should be promoting). It will cost you the commission but you will not have a defect. Many sellers will have to resort to this tactic if they want to keep it under 2%. Ebay will gladly keep your money in exchange for not giving you a defect.
Sorry but that won't work. If the seller does not file for a cancellation, ebay will assume that it is seller cancelled and will give the seller a defect. I have 2 defects for that reason and there was no case opened in either situation.

If you did a full refund and did not do a cancellation, I'm surprised that you didn't receive a defect as many others have. Perhaps they've changed something or they just missed it.

You don't get a defect for a partial refund.