eBay

5992chris · ‎05-19-2014

This is **bleep**. I will not be buying item from the US anymore. I thought Ebay was an entity unto it own. How can you allow this to happen ? Because our companies here can't compete because of taxes and greed, we as consumers suffer. I would like to buy North American but you are forcing me to shop else where.

toby_le_pue · ‎05-19-2014

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/postal-postale/duty-droits-eng.html#c1

The item’s value in Canadian dollars

Under the provisions of the Postal Imports Remission Order, if someone mails you an item worth CAN$20 or less, you don’t have to pay duty or taxes on the item. If the item is worth more than CAN$20, you must pay the applicable duty, the GST or HST, and any PST on the item’s full value.

Items that do not qualify for the CAN$20 exemption include the following:

tobacco;
books;
periodicals;
magazines;
alcoholic beverages; and
goods ordered through a Canadian post office box or a Canadian intermediary.

Handling costs

To process goods imported as mail that are subject to duty and/or tax, Canada Post charges the recipient CAN$9.95. If the item is duty-free and tax exempt, no amount is charged.

All amounts must be paid at the time of delivery (by cash, certified cheque, VISA, MasterCard or your Canada Post commercial account).

Agreements and disagreements

If you disagree with the duty and/or taxes assessed, two options are available to you.

marnotom! · ‎05-19-2014

This sounds like a post coming from someone who's never paid taxes and handling charge on an item sent by mail, even when the item is subject to those charges, and is now staring at GSP "import charges" on listings.

I think we may be looking at a "generation" of eBay buyers who really don't know or understand how even personal imports by mail are technically taxable.

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎05-22-2014

@marnotom! wrote:
This sounds like a post coming from someone who's never paid taxes and handling charge on an item sent by mail, even when the item is subject to those charges, and is now staring at GSP "import charges" on listings.

I think we may be looking at a "generation" of eBay buyers who really don't know or understand how even personal imports by mail are technically taxable.

I think this generation of buyers will be learning very quickly about imports by mail are taxable. I was just hit for $19 from Canada Post on a $60 sale.

Expect to seen Canada Post starting to collect on a lot more packages.

photogenus69 · ‎05-23-2014

What you seem to be forgetting is that many items are in fact duty free as per NAFTA and has been for years. I have been a member since 2004 and most items I have purchased,were well over $20.00 through the US has arrived duty free.....until now. It has only been recent with eBay's forced additional duty charges that my cost has gone through the roof. Items I KNOW are duty free. but I am forced to pay for it up front, then summit a refund request through CBSA. So it's all .I recently paid $101.00 for an item that sold for $59.00 US...**bleep**???? $42 for shipping & handling and duties on an item that IS covered under NAFTA and does NOT require extra duties or custom fees or tax.

Tell you what eBay, let the buyer on this end worry about the additional duties we have to pay as the policy has always been and stop forcing the additional payments at source. I assure you that CBSA will not let any unpaid taxes or duties go by .Someone is getting rich off this scam as most customers will not bother to submit the refund form to CBSA and just pay the extra fees.

You speak of CBSA's duties and taxes, how is it then, one seller has the 'forced' extra duties and fees to be paid at source (checkout) while another seller offers the same item and does not have the extra costs? and if i purchase from the one that does not charge me at source there are NO additional cost associated with duties shipping or taxes upon arrival? Do these item pass through a different customs???

Like I said all and someone (eBay and Pitney Bowes)is getting rich off this scam and I assure you that eBay will eventually require that ALL sellers comply with this new policy...for now I will buy from sellers that do not charge these additional fees.

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎05-23-2014

@photogenus69 wrote:

What you seem to be forgetting is that many items are in fact duty free as per NAFTA and has been for years. I have been a member since 2004 and most items I have purchased,were well over $20.00 through the US has arrived duty free.....until now. It has only been recent with eBay's forced additional duty charges that my cost has gone through the roof. Items I KNOW are duty free. but I am forced to pay for it up front, then summit a refund request through CBSA. So it's all .I recently paid $101.00 for an item that sold for $59.00 US...**bleep**???? $42 for shipping & handling and duties on an item that IS covered under NAFTA and does NOT require extra duties or custom fees or tax.

Tell you what eBay, let the buyer on this end worry about the additional duties we have to pay as the policy has always been and stop forcing the additional payments at source. I assure you that CBSA will not let any unpaid taxes or duties go by .Someone is getting rich off this scam as most customers will not bother to submit the refund form to CBSA and just pay the extra fees.

You speak of CBSA's duties and taxes, how is it then, one seller has the 'forced' extra duties and fees to be paid at source (checkout) while another seller offers the same item and does not have the extra costs? and if i purchase from the one that does not charge me at source there are NO additional cost associated with duties shipping or taxes upon arrival? Do these item pass through a different customs???

Like I said all and someone (eBay and Pitney Bowes)is getting rich off this scam and I assure you that eBay will eventually require that ALL sellers comply with this new policy...for now I will buy from sellers that do not charge these additional fees.

Wrong on so many levels.

You are mixing up terms, definitions, laws and more.

Duty is a general term that is similar to the word tax, but usually applied to import/export transactions at borders.

eg. A duty placed on imported shirts from China may have a duty of %10. this is an additional fee over and above all else.

This is not to be confused with the general term duty as in 'duty free store' where an item is sold without any taxes, custom fees or duties.

NAFTA allows for the duty free sale of items across borders so that any item made under NAFTA will not have any additional duties imposed. There are still taxes to be paid. NAFTA has never meant you don't pay any taxes on your purchases.

In a nutshell:

Duty is either a term for a specific additional charge over and above regular taxes or is a general term for all fees paid.

Brokerage fees are costs incurred to assess an items import/export status and must be paid if done by a brokerage firm regardless of any other taxes.....because they don't work for free.

Taxes are required to be collected on all items imported into Canada (except the under $20 and if bringing in yourself and have stayed X period of time). The fact that previously Canada Post did not often collect them, did not mean it wasn't true.

Finally, you say

Do these item pass through a different customs???

Short answer? YES. Long answer. Yes, yes they do. When an item is shipped through PB brokerage it goes through a different sorting process than when it goes directly through the post office. That it passes through the same building does not mean that they are treated the same. They are not.

Expect to see Canada Post follow suit and start assessing and collecting taxes more rigorously.

You're experience of not paying taxes/duty was a function of convenience and staffing, not a function of laws.

afantiques · ‎05-23-2014

Excellent, clear and comprehesive reply, froogal

photogenus69 · ‎05-23-2014

Froogal,

Regardless of my errors regarding duties laws etc.... thanks by the way for the clarification, however, be that as it may, it does not change the fact that as of recent policies implemented by eBay....meaning the forced additional fees for shipping which I AM NOT permitted to opt out at the time of purchase, nor is the seller able to alter that cost...so I am told by the last seller...it still is BS and it costs considerably more to purchase as a direct result of eBay's global shipping policies.

My point is, since when does eBay dictate the shipping cost at source? This is the responsibilities of the seller NOT eBay. Suppose I don't want to pay for their 'service' and go by another means, what then? I have no choice in the matter. In fact I now pay twice the shipping cost; one that the seller establishes and then the one eBay imposes..

Regardless of your argument/clarification, it is still a scam from eBay and Pitney Bowes....why? because if it was on the up and up, how is it I was able to claim a refund from CBSA for shipping/duty/ etc blah blah and get refunded if they were all legitimate fees/ taxes etc?

As I said, eBay should stay the hell out of the shipping aspect of the sellers, let the detail of shipping and handling aspect be dealt with between the buyer and seller, as it has been in the past. You can defend eBay all you wish, that's your prerogative, however, I am not buying it. eBay has long abandoned its concept.

Finally if it was simply a matter of convenience and staffing, then you my friend give the federal government way too much credit, do you honestly think they would overlook something so lucarative as the additional taxes they could have collected over the years? I mean...we're talking about taxes...the government NOT collect?

afantiques · ‎05-23-2014

Finally if it was simply a matter of convenience and staffing, then you my friend give the federal government way too much credit, do you honestly think they would overlook something so lucarative as the additional taxes they could have collected over the years? I mean...we're talking about taxes...the government NOT collect?

It is not worth collecting $5 tax if it costs $10 in resources, or even if it costs $5 in resources.

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎05-23-2014

@photogenus69 wrote:
Froogal,

Regardless of my errors regarding duties laws etc.... thanks by the way for the clarification, however, be that as it may, it does not change the fact that as of recent policies implemented by eBay....meaning the forced additional fees for shipping which I AM NOT permitted to opt out at the time of purchase, nor is the seller able to alter that cost...so I am told by the last seller...it still is BS and it costs considerably more to purchase as a direct result of eBay's global shipping policies.

My point is, since when does eBay dictate the shipping cost at source? This is the responsibilities of the seller NOT eBay. Suppose I don't want to pay for their 'service' and go by another means, what then? I have no choice in the matter. In fact I now pay twice the shipping cost; one that the seller establishes and then the one eBay imposes..

Regardless of your argument/clarification, it is still a scam from eBay and Pitney Bowes....why? because if it was on the up and up, how is it I was able to claim a refund from CBSA for shipping/duty/ etc blah blah and get refunded if they were all legitimate fees/ taxes etc?

As I said, eBay should stay the hell out of the shipping aspect of the sellers, let the detail of shipping and handling aspect be dealt with between the buyer and seller, as it has been in the past. You can defend eBay all you wish, that's your prerogative, however, I am not buying it. eBay has long abandoned its concept.

Finally if it was simply a matter of convenience and staffing, then you my friend give the federal government way too much credit, do you honestly think they would overlook something so lucarative as the additional taxes they could have collected over the years? I mean...we're talking about taxes...the government NOT collect?

You are able to opt out by not purchasing. If the overall cost is prohibitive, don't buy it. If it's still worthwhile, then buy it.

That it costs more now as a result is not BS, but just is.

It is not a scam and 1 refund via CBSA means nothing. It is legitimate, and it is done properly, and it is actually cheaper brokerage than what Canada Post charges (when they do), not including the extra shipping. It is more likely CBSA made a mistake.

Ebay has been involved in shipping for a long time by penalizing and rewarding sellers based on their shipping. The fact you pay more for shipping now is an added cost but is definitely in line with ebays past history of getting involved.

Trust me, I am not in any way shape or form defending Ebay. I am the first to agree that ebay has lost it's way, but this is true of most companies that go public. They are beholden to shareholders. That some things align with sellers and some with buyers is only coincidence. If ebay could quadruple their profits permanently by getting rid of sellers, they would do it.

I am just telling the truth. The taxes are owed, the brokerage is a fee, the shipping is a cost to get it to the DC. Sellers do not have to enroll.

And yes, it was and is still a matter of staffing / procedures or whatever you want to call it. Buyers, including myself are well aware that buying through the post office was a very good chance at paying no taxes. The majority of items get through the post office without paying taxes when they are supposed to. This is changing and will change.

marnotom! · ‎05-23-2014

@photogenus69 wrote:

Regardless of your argument/clarification, it is still a scam from eBay and Pitney Bowes....why? because if it was on the up and up, how is it I was able to claim a refund from CBSA for shipping/duty/ etc blah blah and get refunded if they were all legitimate fees/ taxes etc?

What paperwork did you submit to CBSA to show that you had paid duty and taxes?

photogenus69 · ‎05-23-2014

D6-2-3 or D6-2-6 of CBSA's refund forms

photogenus69 · ‎05-23-2014

Look, I know you are trying to help me to 'get it',

But, nothing just 'is'. 'Is' always is something, and in this case, I call it what it is .... How can anything that cost $59, weighs in a little more than a pound and a half legitimately cost $42 in shipping? regardless of how you rationalize it, in the end it is STILL shipping cost. and $42 is legal extortion....ergo....

using the rationale that it just 'is' is as weak as when you can't get any customer service when you have a legitimate complaint because all they keep repeating to you ad nauseam is; 'sorry sir it's policy'..

and saying "If the overall cost is prohibitive, don't buy it." is almost as annoying becasue it does not address the issue. Of course I have the option of not buying.

In the end,I don't buy, but not because it is necessarily cost prohibitive from the seller, but rather the cost of the seller's shipping along with eBay's added shipping cost.

At any rate I will not beat a dead horse ...thanks for allowing me to rant.

froogal_electronic_parts_and_overstock · ‎05-23-2014

@photogenus69 wrote:

Look, I know you are trying to help me to 'get it',

But, nothing just 'is'. 'Is' always is something, and in this case, I call it what it is .... How can anything that cost $59, weighs in a little more than a pound and a half legitimately cost $42 in shipping? regardless of how you rationalize it, in the end it is STILL shipping cost. and $42 is legal extortion....ergo....

using the rationale that it just 'is' is as weak as when you can't get any customer service when you have a legitimate complaint because all they keep repeating to you ad nauseam is; 'sorry sir it's policy'..

and saying "If the overall cost is prohibitive, don't buy it." is almost as annoying becasue it does not address the issue. Of course I have the option of not buying.

In the end,I don't buy, but not because it is necessarily cost prohibitive from the seller, but rather the cost of the seller's shipping along with eBay's added shipping cost.

At any rate I will not beat a dead horse ...thanks for allowing me to rant.

i like a good rant as well. I just agree you are beating a dead horse.

That you don't like the fees is understandable.

You are just ranting because the cost of shipping is directly in line with what it costs to ship. While I am sure PB/ebay get a discount on shipping costs, if you check the cost to ship it is the same if not less. The point of it 'just is' is that it costs what it costs to send from the seller, to DC, to you. There is no huge markup, if any, other than you do pay more because it goes to an extra location

It's not policy, and it's not a legitimate complaint. The cost is what it costs. This makes it legitimate and not a scam. If ebay forced you to buy, or at the least forced the seller to use GSP and then added a big markup to a captured audience, that would be more scam like. Kind of like UPS and FEDEX have been for the past 20 years until recently.

It may not help saying don't buy but that's really what it comes down to. You can complain about GSP, or complain about Canada Post hiking rates every year, or go grandpa crazy and talk about how you could ship a car to norway for $12 when he was a kid.

You're complaint stems mostly from a frame of reference that still incorporates your perceived costs of the good ol days. Whereas, ebay knows that given enough time, most will accept it and new buyers won't know any difference.

anyways, good luck, and trust me, if not you, the bulk of the complainers will be back and will buy if it makes sense to do so. Ebay knows this.

pierrelebel · ‎05-23-2014

The US$ 60 shoes should have entered Canada without duty. Unfortunately, the seller did not indicate USA as the country of manufacture in the listing. As such 18% duty was added. The shipping charge seemed appropriate.

The problem was that duty was added when it should not have been.

GST/HST apply in any case.

Duty on shoes has been a sore subject for Canadians (nothing to do with eBay or PB). Take a look at this recent article in the Toronto Star:

http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/spending_saving/2011/09/05/why_are_we_paying_so_muc...

"...the federal minister of international trade Stockwell Day said the matter was tied up in the Doha Round of multilateral trade negotiations. The government’s proposal, when the talks conclude, is to reduce the duty on footwear from 18 per cent to 5.5 per cent over a five year period, Day added. The Doha talks have been going on for a decade."

I am sorry you had to pay duty on these shoes when they should have been exempt. If identified properly, you would have saved about $16 (the duty and the tax (GST/HST) charged on the duty - yes, duty is taxable!)

You may want to contact the seller and explain he could save money to his Canadian customers by adding the country og manufacture to his listings.

marnotom! · ‎05-24-2014

@photogenus69 wrote:

D6-2-3 or D6-2-6 of CBSA's refund forms

I guess I wasn't clear enough. What paperwork from your sale did you submit as proof to CBSA that you had paid duty and taxes? When I received my GSP item, there was no receipt with the item, and the eBay/PayPal statement didn't show what I had paid toward duty or taxes, just "import charges."

morethanjustanumber · ‎06-02-2014

I remember years ago there was all this talk of "free trade" now i ask... free for who? because it seems like a one way street to me. i say, hurry up USA and build that fence to divide us

reallynicestamps · ‎06-02-2014

It's free trade on items MANUFACTURED in the signatory countries.

If you buy a Dooney and Burke purse made in the USA, it will be free of duty.

If you buy a Dooney and Burke purse made in Italy, it will be dutiable.

If you buy a Dooney and Burke purse made in China it will be a fake, but still dutiable.

(I buy a lot of D&B purses.)

Doesn't matter where you buy it. It 's the place of manufacture that is the primary question.

BTW, a lot of GPS sellers don't mark the place of manufacture on their items. Often Pitney Bowes opens, inspects and repacks (badly) these items. Often they assume they are dutiable even if they aren't. This is primarily the responsibility of the seller.

pjcdn2005 · ‎06-02-2014

@morethanjustanumber wrote:
I remember years ago there was all this talk of "free trade" now i ask... free for who? because it seems like a one way street to me. i say, hurry up USA and build that fence to divide us

Free trade refers to not having to duty for items made in specific countries but we can still be charged tax for those items if their value is over $20C

suebelly · ‎03-20-2017

I just bought a small item from India, the seller charged me for shipping ($17.39CA). Then a courier lands with the item and demands $19.95 for duty... except that the item was only valued at $15 and I'd already paid the seller for shipping. So I refuse to pay and the courier takes the item back.

I then tell the seller I want a refund because it's apparent to me he just kept the money he charged me for shipping and sent the package with reversed shipping charges. Ultimately, he keeps saying that there was duty and I keep saying there couldn't have been because Canada doesn't charge duty on packaged valued at $20 or less.

So ebay gets involved and they decide completely in the seller's favour. He not only gets to keep my money, but the courier is returning the item to him so he'll get to sell it again. I lose completely and he wins twice. Incredibly unfair.

I've been buying on ebay for 15 years and I never thought they would make a decision that was so completely one-sided in favour of an unscrupulous seller. When I bought the item there was nothing indicating it would even be sent by courier, so now I'm scared to buy anything else because I don't know if it's going to land with a fake claim for duty and if it does, ebay obviously isn't going to protect me.

I appealed the decision stating the Canadian Customs Act but they just reiterated the seller's claim that I didn't pay duties.... what duties??? There shouldn't have been any on a $15 item!!