Comments about the Global Shipping Program

Feel free to share your thoughts about the Global Shipping Program here. 

 

A few questions to get the ball rolling:

 

  • What has worked well for you with the Global Shipping Program?
  • Any ideas to help improve the experience for Canadian buyers?
  • What has deterred you from buying items offered using the Global Shipping Program?
  • How have you managed to search for items outside the program?

Please try & keep the comments constructive 🙂

 

If you have any questions about the program, please post them here.

~Kalvin
eBay.ca Community Manager

kalvin@ebay.com

Message 1 of 6,171
latest reply
6,170 REPLIES 6,170

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program


@afantiques wrote:

High-ticket item sellers may be hesitant to use the programme because of PBI's unilateral power to seize items if they declare that the item isn't shippable (despite the fact they received the item fine) and "reimburse" the buyer, meanwhile neither parties have the item any further and PBI can sell off the item in its "disposing" with a markup on the original cost to make a profit off of these seizures.

 

This is more than a bit far fetched. Why would a seller care, they stay paid, the item is sold, and from their point of view, it is no skin off their nose if whoever ends up with the item sells it at a profit. I really cannot see that the re-shipping center would have an expert appraiser of just about any and everything scanning all packages to select any that seem to have potential for a profit, any sales of unshippable items are likely to  be distress sales to recoup whatever the shippers can,  and would as a rule involve a cash loss.


Many sellers care about their customers' satisfaction.

 

A seller who can't get their packages to their customers is often seen as a poor seller regardless of DSRs or other visible parameters. eBay tries to manage the situation with the GSP by protecting sellers from poor shipping ratings, but there are blogs and so forth on the Internet that eBay has no control over who people can post their poor experiences about specific sellers with no holds barred nor any content removal. The fact eBay shields the seller and that there's no public metrics about PBI akin to DSR figures should be an element of concern. I wager if PBI was a regular seller on eBay and had this much issues with shipping, they'd be suspended/terminated by now as their DSRs would be through the floor.

 

As far as appraisers, I never said they did, but still what right does PBI have outside of their contracts to decide to keep an item? If someone spends money on eBay, they are spending that money for the item's successful delivery — it's a waste of time otherwise, if PBI fails to meet that on an item, the item should be sent back to the seller, potentially at the seller's expense if they were at fault for not properly filling out qualifying details. If PBI won't ship it as a matter of awkwardness or inability  to fit it on the skit, etc, then it should be sent back on PBI's dime as a failure on eBay's part to check if the item's qualifications.

 

For PBI to accept an item into their warehouse process, then decide they can't ship it is bait and switch: "Oh, we can't ship this... but everybody gets their money back and can go on their merry way, oh and we're keeping the item that the customer was expecting, and won't tell you what we're doing with it" (Bait: Promising shipping, Switch: Refund and PBI now owns the item since they officially paid for it and gets to resell the item to recoup the refund plus any profit they can get)

 

If eBay can program their website to do the thing with photo size, they can put in checks to see if PBI will ship an item or not and require those to be entered. Neither buyers nor sellers should be kept guessing and have to "hope" that the item passes PBI's process where neither party may see the item again.

Message 2001 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

what right does PBI have outside of their contracts to decide to keep an item?

 

Erm, the right is written into the terms and conditions. That looks like a contractural right to me.

 

If eBay can program their website to do the thing with photo size, they can put in checks to see if PBI will ship an item or not and require those to be entered. Neither buyers nor sellers should be kept guessing and have to "hope" that the item passes PBI's process where neither party may see the item again.

 

This is quite true and the problem is remediable by ebay, can't argue with that. They should also ensure country of origin is a non-optional field on the listing form or Turbolister.

 

I think to claim bait and switch is inappropriate, the promised service will be delivered as long as the seller does not breach the conditions, once this breach has been made, the conditions applying to 'undeliverable items' kicks in, and this is a different matter.

 

Bait and switch implies malfeasance by the baiter without any fault of the baitee.

Message 2002 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program


@afantiques wrote:

what right does PBI have outside of their contracts to decide to keep an item?

 

Erm, the right is written into the terms and conditions. That looks like a contractural right to me.


Contractual indeed, the issue with the GSP is that it is hinged based off of contracts alone and has no real standing in historical business norms. While I agree that business moves forward and so much its processes, such new precedents like the GSP need ongoing accountability from an outside party which is not being provided to fully determine the legality from a non-American law standpoint.

 

Consider these points:

  • A buyer pays "Import Charges" under the understanding that these will be used mostly to pay taxes and duty, with the complete understanding that most of the funds would be in fact going to their own government to pay for imports. This can open PBI and eBay up to investigation if a government deems that money is leaving their country's economy under false pretenses or if it deems it cannot adequately check into PBI's operation or books the government may require PBI exclude their country from the GSP.
  • PBI via contract has "rights" to open and alter packaging as they see fit. A country could deem that PBI is operating as a shipping company and that its repackaging policies are akin to going through the mail and put forth that PBI is to stop repackaging outside of customs review.
  • PBI has "rights" to acquire an item through contract as long as they "make whole" who needs to be, but this could be deemed unconscionable by a non-American court.
  • PBI and eBay are capable of providing idemnity, immunity and exclusions (e.g. T&C's Indemnity and GSP T&C §3i) through their contracts, but such could be challenged by a Non-American government as a measure to prevent consumers from exercising their rights through that country's consumer protection law to seek redress or to issue formal complaint.

Note that the US Government deems all of the above to be completely acceptable considering the US has amongst the most relaxed laws regarding what contracts are capable of doing in the world and business practices are almost never challenged in the US.

 

Consider Facebook's user agreement in how it was deemed completely acceptable in the US, but Facebook's operation was deemed unlawful right here in Canada and elicited the Canadian government (through the Privacy Commissioner) to intervene and place pressure against Facebook to amend its American-accepted practices. the EU also partook and made the same and in some regards went further.

 

Until eBay's and PBI's user agreements along with the operation of the GSP are challenged formally by non-American authorities, answers about acceptability will remain guesses at best.

Message 2003 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

A country could deem that PBI is operating as a shipping company and that its repackaging policies are akin to going through the mail and put forth that PBI is to stop repackaging outside of customs review.

 

Shipping companies are entitled to inspect packages to ensure they are complying with relevant laws. Even postal services can do this (US media mail wrongly used, British Royal mail inspecting and destroying perfume sent by post without hazardous material labels).

 

In effect the action of the company in assessing packages is their duty in order to provide a true customs manifest for the shipment.

 

It would help, as people have remarked, if sellers provided more and correct information under item specifics relating to the nature and origin of their items.

 

I don't think any fault can be found in relation to the practice you criticise, although the other points are rather more moot.

Message 2004 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

I'm far from convinced that afantiques and marmortom! aren't the same person.  

There's so much mutual kudoing going on between those two and each pretty much only has kudos from the other  .................  It's almost like they play touch tag (one comes, the other goes) in addition to many other things.

 

In any case.........

 

P-B opened one of my packages and put my delicate item in a smaller box and took out the seller's lovely packaging and extras.

 

I thought it was to bring shipping weight down so they could pocket some of the money I paid for shipping.

 

Whatever the reason: 

 

It's a lot like someone entering your home and rifling through your stuff.

 

Talk about intrusive!

 

Message 2005 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

Erm, contractual indeed. Your tone is silly. Erm, just because its written in the terms, that nobody reads, doesn't make it right. Have you ever seen terms on most of the software people use? Its complete BS and designed to take advantage of, or go over the head of, the average user. Its disgusting.
Message 2006 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

High-ticket item sellers may be hesitant to use the programme because of PBI's unilateral power to seize items if they declare that the item isn't shippable (despite the fact they received the item fine) and "reimburse" the buyer, meanwhile neither parties have the item any further and PBI can sell off the item in its "disposing" with a markup on the original cost to make a profit off of these seizures.

This is more than a bit far fetched. Why would a seller care, they stay paid, the item is sold, and from their point of view, it is no skin off their nose if whoever ends up with the item sells it at a profit. I really cannot see that the re-shipping center would have an expert appraiser of just about any and everything scanning all packages to select any that seem to have potential for a profit, any sales of unshippable items are likely to be distress sales to recoup whatever the shippers can, and would as a rule involve a cash loss.


^^^^
This is silly as well. What if a really rare item that the buyer really wanted got STOLEN from them and sold off at a profit? Do you really trust this company and its emloyees, along with the shady terms, to not do this? If you do, well, sir, I disagree.

Message 2007 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

just because its written in the terms, that nobody reads, doesn't make it right

 

No wonder all the money ends up with the clever people. You should never agree to things you don't understand, though I'll conceed you have a point on software licences.

Message 2008 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

What if a really rare item that the buyer really wanted got STOLEN from them and sold off at a profit? Do you really trust this company and its employees, along with the shady terms, to not do this?

 

Well, yes I do, because the company cannot 'steal' an item, although an employee could pocket something and walk out with it. However this hazard is probably catered for in whatever security system the shippers have in place, and it could happen just as easily in your local post office. This is a walk on the wild side of probability here.

Message 2009 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

They use legalese - worded by lawyers for lawyers. Not everyone has a full under understanding of all the terms in there.

Which is why this board can be useful - lots of questions raised and some answered.

Message 2010 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

as a canadian buyer I do not think I have ever had to pay duty(hello NAFTA) or tax on anything under $100..I can drive to the border pick up something in the US...tell the border guard it has a value under $100 and he just waives me through...Pitney bowes probably does pay duty (not to mention their own fee charged to buyers)because there are  hundreds of dollars of package value in the truck.....you have set up a system where I  pay fees I would not otherwise pay if you shipped directly to me in Canada...this makes ebay prices unaffordable....ebay has added a middleman where none is necessary...I will not buy from any seller with GS...ridiculous shipping prices are not good for US business

Message 2011 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

"..tell the border guard it has a value under $100 and he just waives me through."

 

There are substantial differences between the tax exemptions if you cross the border with your merchandise and if the goods are shipped to you by mail or couriers.

 

By mail, the tax exemption is only $20 (not $200 allowed when crossing the border). Nothing to do with NAFTA which deals with tariffs and quotas.

 

Here is the official link from the Government of Canada (I do not make the rules; the government does):

 

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/postal-postale/duty-droits-eng.html

Message 2012 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program


@mater721 wrote:

They use legalese - worded by lawyers for lawyers. Not everyone has a full under understanding of all the terms in there.

Which is why this board can be useful - lots of questions raised and some answered.


Agreed, though I do have an issue with the state of this thread:

 

This thread is more or less regressing into a cylical state where the same questions are coming up again and again and vague motions to the T&C's are made about "You agreed to this", links to websites or the like, but no authoritative information is posted nor any efforts being spearheaded to determine the sanity of the GSP under non-American law and whether it adequately serves those countries' economies (including Canada) to partake in the GSP.

 

I think what needs to happen at this point is for us to "reach out" to non-eBay contacts (e.g. government, consumer protection groups) and put forth to these authorities and experts that the GSP's operation warrants investigation under in our case, Canadian consumer protection norms and law. Until then there will be no definitive answer regardless if there's even 8,000 posts in this thread or not.

 

We are not the United States and do not share all of their values and law. Commonwealth countries are known for having good consumer protection law that's more sound than American measures. Given this thread's sheer negative response about the GSP, we as Canadians need to put forth those investigation initiatives or PBI and eBay will continue to get to operate unaccountable to the Canadian economy, only accountable to the United States.

 

PBI and eBay's operation of the programme is opaque to us, but our government can answer all if needed.

 

Canada has interests, perhaps its interests are in conflict with eBay/PBI's similar to how Facebook was in conflict with Canadian privacy interests.

Message 2013 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

I'm not so concerned with the legality and I'm not convinced it is a 'scam' as so many have said. But I am  concerned about the poor buyer experience the gsp can give and concerned about who really benefits from the gsp.. A seller 'may' benefit from more sales and they also benefit by being shielded from negative feedback and low DSR's from buyers using the gsp. If there are more international sales made, ebay benefits from final value fees. Obviously PB benefits or they wouldn't be involved.

How does the buyer benefit?  Sure, there are some cases in which shipping is less with the gsp..I've seen that. But for the most part it seems to cost buyers more money and more stress.I have always worked in the service industry and would never implement something that benefited everyone but the customers.

 

Regarding buyers not reading the gsp rules before buying....So many of the sellers don't have a clue what is going on...should we really expect the buyers to know and understand all of the rules?   The gsp just complicates an already complicated system.

Message 2014 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

PJ:  Very Well said and exactly what I've been posting from day 1.

 

The only comment I take issue with it that the GSP "may" benefit sellers.

 

IF it does benefit sellers at all, then the sellers who benefit are only a small group with select merchandise and not in my universe.

 

I am one of the few buyers who continues to buy items listed via the GSP, but prior to bidding I clear it with my sellers and they agree to ship the "normal" way.

 

Financially it's a very good deal for me because these items sell for quite a bit less because they are avoided by all but US buyers (and me).

 

It does matter to sellers of collectibles quite a bit.

Message 2015 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program


@pjcdn2005 wrote:

I'm not so concerned with the legality and I'm not convinced it is a 'scam' as so many have said. But I am  concerned about the poor buyer experience the gsp can give and concerned about who really benefits from the gsp.. A seller 'may' benefit from more sales and they also benefit by being shielded from negative feedback and low DSR's from buyers using the gsp. If there are more international sales made, ebay benefits from final value fees. Obviously PB benefits or they wouldn't be involved.

How does the buyer benefit?  Sure, there are some cases in which shipping is less with the gsp..I've seen that. But for the most part it seems to cost buyers more money and more stress.I have always worked in the service industry and would never implement something that benefited everyone but the customers.

 

Regarding buyers not reading the gsp rules before buying....So many of the sellers don't have a clue what is going on...should we really expect the buyers to know and understand all of the rules?   The gsp just complicates an already complicated system.


While it may just not be a scam, there has been precedent where nations decide an initiative isn't in their interests and the interests of their people and decide against the initiative despite there being no illegality of it. It's what makes countries pull out of treaties and so forth.

 

From a national standpoint, the GSP falls under trade and a country may determine that the lack of transparency and accountability may not be in their nation's interests to continue to allow to trade under and may ask PBI formally and on the public record to terminate their nation's participation and disclose the reasons they are doing so — again — on the public record as well.

 

There's many ways a country can make it hard for a potentially not illegal, but potentially unlawful or morally questionable programme to operate that can operate in another country.

 

However, we're not authorities so we have no authority to say either way whether it's a scam or not affirmatively.

Message 2016 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program


@i*m-still-here wrote:

I'm far from convinced that afantiques and marmortom! aren't the same person.  

There's so much mutual kudoing going on between those two and each pretty much only has kudos from the other  .................  It's almost like they play touch tag (one comes, the other goes) in addition to many other things.

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Its funny you say that, that did cross my mind at one time, as i notice they never talk against each other, always on the same page, like you said touch tag, now its your turn to reply...lol

 

 

Message 2017 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

 
Message 2018 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

in the item listing, seller indicated that they can ship through USPS instead of by GSP (default method for international buyer) . Before buying the item, I sent the seller a message asking how to choose that option because I don't see that at check out (would that be adjusted afterwards?), the seller didn't answer the question directly, just say no problem they can ship by USPS $6.95. 

 

So I went ahead and purchased the item, again, no option to choose at check out, so I added a note at the check out requesting to change the shipping method to USPS. The actual shipping amount I paid was about $20, more expensive than the item itself!

now the seller shipped out the item using the GSP. When asked, he said he thought I changed my mind to go through GSP, he said he could NOT change the shipping option other than the one I chose, and shipping method should have been changed at check out. which is not true and a staff from GSP confirmed that. for US costomer there is an option like that at check out but NONE for Canadian/ International customer. He also simply said unfortunately he didn't see my message attached with the transaction!! 

 

What is my option here? I can't cancel the transaction as it's been shipped to the 3rd party.

even if I refuse the package, he would only refund my item cost. open a case for item not as described once the item arrived!? 

 

 

Message 2019 of 6,171
latest reply

Re: Comments about the Global Shipping Program

tml2006
Community Member
I have been an eBay member since eBay existed in Canada, since the days when you needed to pay for items using money orders, and I am extremely disappointed in eBay for implementing this practice. I was super happy with every move they have made, from allowing use of paypal to merging with them altogether. This latest move, implementing import charges is terrible. The charges are outrageous, and this is not only a bad business practice but if your clients are leaving your company, it is not a sustainable business practice. As a Canadian, I can only buy from Canadian sellers in order to find value, and of course, my selection is severely limited.

Unless changes are made soon, you will lose another long time client. Very disappointing, eBay.
Message 2020 of 6,171
latest reply