My experience as a buyer and Ebay's Global Shipping Program and a selfish Seller.

[Anonymous]

Hello all,

I just want to share my experience with a Seller and Ebay's (money-grabbing) Global Shipping Program.   While I understand that this is a service to the selling community, it is a cash-grab for Buyers and I now got proof of the vast difference in mailing costs.

I recently purchased an item from a Seller in the UK.  The Global Shipping Program charged me GBP 30.62 for shipping and import charges.  And, the seller charged me a further GBP 3.45 for his local shipping charge to send the item to Pitney Bowes shipping center.  All of this is fine by me as I have accounted for these amounts before I decided to buy this item.

After a few days, Seller sends me a message asking for GBP 14 for mailing costs.  I was surprised.  After a few email exchanges, I realized that the Seller didn't realize he was enrolled in Ebay's Global Shipping Program.  He thinks I am trying to avoid paying him the GBP 14 he spent for the mailing cost. He even sent me photos of the mailing receipt for my package.   I tried to explain to him what the Global Shipping Program is all about even if, as a Buyer, I totally despise it.  He seems to be stubborn and still does not understand how this program works and he does not accept the fact that he's enrolled in this secret covert program that does not send him the money for mailing costs.   He thinks I am pulling his leg.

I have taken the initiative to contact Ebay Customer Service from my end to find out how I can get the money that the Global Shipping  Program.  I was told that the Buyer would need to make that request from his end.  I again went back to the Buyer pleading him to make a quick call to Ebay's Customer Service Centre to instruct them to send me back my money so I can pay him his GBP 14.  I also told him that I need the money back so I can pay for import charges once the package arrives at my door.

Lo and behold, the Seller all of a sudden says that GBP14 is not worth the hassle of calling Ebay's Customer Service Centre.   What a selfish buffoon.  Having had enough of dealing with the Seller, I told him that if he does not value his GBP 14 then we should put this matter to rest.  This also means that I will have to pay another sum of money for import charges unless I can convince the Seller to have a heart and make a call to Ebay's Customer Service so I can get my money back which seems to be hopeless at this point in time.

As for me, I am more of a buyer than a Seller.  I am taken aback at the difference in price between what Pitney Bowes charges for shipping and import charges and the actual mailing cost.  Imagine, GBP 34.07 vs. GBP 14!!  That is a large difference.   This is an obvious cash grab by Ebay.  And, it just plants a fear among Sellers about shipping internationally and all the hoops they have to go through just to do it.  Filling -up paperwork to export your item is not difficult at all.  Just another step compared to sending out a domestic package.    Oh well, I end my rant here.

I am wondering if anyone in the Community or from Ebay's Customer Service can offer advice on how I can get the unused Global Shipping Program money back.  Any advice would be appreciated.  

Phil 

[reallynicestamps]

The Global Shipping Program is a Seller Protection Program.

It protects Sellers from unwarranted  claims of non-delivery from international customers.

It also protects them from unwarranted claims and feedback about customs and sales taxes charged by the buyer's nation.

The seller has only to ship to the GSP plant.

That's the $3.45 he charges all domestic customers.

Then the GSP charges the buyer $30.62 which covers Canadian duty and sales taxes, a $5.00USD service fee, and the cost of international shipping.

You admit that the seller did not understand that he had been signed up for the GSP. That was because of a (very stupid) decision on the part of eBay. They automatically signed up new members for a few months until they noticed the chaos this caused with naive new sellers who shouldn't be shipping internationally anyway.

Your seller is at fault here.

He billed you for international shipping, when he only needed to use domestic shipping.

He refused to understand that this was unnecessary.

Time to cut your losses.

You have paid?

Open an Item Not Recieved Dispute in the Resolution Centre at the bottom of this page.

State in the Dispute that the shipping was to be done through the GSP but the seller will not ship.

You will be refunded in full.

what Pitney Bowes charges for shipping and import charges and the actual mailing cost.  Imagine, GBP 34.07 vs. GBP 14!! 

PB probably pays less than $14 for actual shipping, since they are shipping pallet loads of parcels not singletons.

Most of the PB charge will be Canadian sales taxes. Some may be Canadian duty on your purchase*.

About $5.00 USD is PBs service charge.

If your seller had shipped by mail, you would likely be charged Sales Tax, duty, and a $9,95 service charge on your doorstep by Canada Post.

*Any import over $20 Cdn, is assessed for duty and sales taxes.

[pjcdn2005]

It sounds as f the seller has already mailed the item, is that correct?  If so, have they provided a tracking number that you can see in your purchase history?  If so, customer service should be able to look at the tracking and see  that the shipping bypassed the gsp.  Even if there isn’t tracking, they can look at the eBay messages to see that the seller did not go through the gsp and also see that the seller is not willing to phone customer service.  They might contact the seller for you or be able to help in another way.  Or perhaps tyler@ebay can suggest what to do.  He may rely to this thread.

If there is no tracking, it really is to the sellers benefit to straighten this out so that they can recover their postage costs and lessen the chance that an item not received claim is filed. (Which can’t be done until after the expected delivery dates)   Regardless of that, the seller really should be helping you out.

[tyler@ebay]

Thanks for the tag @pjcdn2005

Hi @Anonymous - that's a really frustrating situation to be sure. You've gotten some good insight into this, but I want to clarify a few things:

You are definitely entitled to a refund of the GSP charges if the seller doesn't end up using the program. The simplest way to do this is to contact Customer Support after the seller has shipped the item directly to you. They'll be able to review the transaction and get you your money back. 

GSP charges are not sent to the seller, so it's not money that they were given (we split the payment when you pay and send the international portion to the fulfillment center directly). 

Ultimately we want to make sure that you have access to a broad range of inventory from as many sellers as possible. The Global Shipping Programme is designed to alleviate the fears of international shipping with members who may be reluctant to sell to people outside of their country.

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Thank you! That was quite informative and your post will be very helpful to a lot of folks.

[Anonymous]

Yes, correct.  The Seller already shipped the item and produced a receipt for GBP 14 for postage.  He then sent a photo of the receipt to me asking for it.  That's when the confusion started.

What made me suspicious is that the Seller seems to have given me a different tracking number.  Not sure is this is what PB uses but it starts with UPAAC and followed by 15 digits.    He mailed it out via Parcelforce in the UK.  When I entered the tracking number he provided, Parcelforce didn't recognize it.  When I took a close look at the photo of the receipt he sent me, I found the correct tracking number and discovered that it had already been delivered to Parcelforce's main hub.   Alarm bells started to ring in my head when I discovered that the service he used to mail the item to me was for local UK packages and not international.  So, I started to question why and who received it at Parcelforce's main hub.  Was this just a fake delivery so he can say that he sent out the item?  These are the kind of questions that were running around in my mind.

After several more back and forth messages, he finally admitted that he was having a bad work day and was coming home from a late shift.  He finally said that he just sent the item to the address that Ebay instructed him to ship to.    This gave me a hint that he did end-up using GSP.  I no longer could not confirm this from him since he's cranky as hell but I am now understanding his situation.  He simply miscalculated the local shipping cost to send the package over to GSP's facility.  The local shipping charged against my Paypal account was only GBP 3.45.  He ended up paying GBP 14.  But, he never bothered to explain this to me.

Supposedly, the item is on its way to me and Ebay customer service reassured me that I can claim insurance if I do not receive the item or if the Seller was bogus.  So, I now sit and wait until the estimated delivery time is due plus a few more days since CanadaPost is having their rotating strike action right now.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for taking time to chime in. Yes, that is what keeps me calm right now, the assurance that there is insurance that will protect me for a non-delivery of goods or bogus Sellers.

[femmefan1946]

Not sure is this is what PB uses but it starts with UPAAC and followed by 15 digits.   

That's a PB number, I believe.

I have this saved about tracking GSP parcels, although it actually deals with US shipped parcels.

Unison worked this out for buyers who have not yet received their GSP shipment.
TRACKING SYSTEM FOR GSP
I found this thread today while awaiting a shipment. Once I learned that Pitney Bowes was the relevant company, I was able to find my package's tracking info in about 10 seconds.
 
Step 1: Go to the Pitney Bowes Parcel Tracker page at https://parceltracking.pb.com/app/#/dashboard/
 
Step 2: Enter your eBay-supplied Global Tracking number (mine began with UPAA...)
 
Step 3: You will be shown limited tracking info. In my case, only up to the point the package left the USA and entered Canada.
 
Step 4: Click on the "Track on carrier's website" link at the top right.
 
Step 5: You will be provided with tracking on the page of the actual shipping company, in my case Canada Post, with a tracking number in THEIR system.
 
Problem solved! If only eBay would put a link to https://parceltracking.pb.com/app/#/dashboard/ in their shipping emails, this could all be avoided...
 

[15westcoast]

I do not buy from any seller that is on the GSP.  It penalizes

out of the country buyers (Canada) and is just an extra charge

that one should not have to pay.  I had one item I ordered on the

GSP disappear (lost in transit).  Yes, I received a refund but really

wanted the item.  The GSP is very flawed.  I also know that a lot of

sellers that subscribe to it are very unaware what is involved.  They

just assume it is an easier and safe way for them to ship out of the country.

I no longer tempt myself with items that are on the GSP.

[femmefan1946]

The only 'extra charge' is the ~$5.00 USD service fee that Pitney Bowes adds.

The rest is there to cover Canadian duty, if any, and SALES TAXES which will be charged on any import over $20Cdn (about $15 USD).

If the new NAFTA deal is passed our de minimus duty will rise to $150, but neither Parliament nor Congress has approved the deal yet.

If it does, apparently sales tax will still be charged on any import over $40Cdn.

And to be clear, duty is not charged on items manufactured in the USA, not purchased there. Buy a Chinese made sweater from California, and you will be assessed duty and sales taxes.

There is a 5000+ post thread about the GSP in the Archives.

[retroman_studios]

It sounds like the seller didn't really understand the concept of mailing items and the associated cost. It seems like GSP in this case is a red herring, the real issue is your seller just doesn't know how to sell and ship as directed.

Also, when you buy through the GSP, usually the seller never sees your actual address as they are provided a reference number and address to ship to the GSP hub. So, part of your sellers issues are smoke and mirrors, the smoke literally his being fumed over paying £14 shipping he wont get back.

If the items arrives safe and is as it was listed, you can leave factual feedback. In situations like this, depending on the lack of or futility of frustration, I wouldnt leave a negative but would consider neutral as the transaction certianly wasnt flawless but didnt go bad.

[Anonymous]

As a Canadian, I too am not attracted to auctions that ship using the GSP program.  I consider GSP another revenue source for Ebay.  Sure it works for both Sellers and Ebay but at the cost of international buyers like us in Canada. 

When I sell goods on Ebay, I ship via CanadaPost even to international destinations including the US.  I do not really understand what makes UK and US Ebay Sellers so hung-up shipping to international destinations.  Compared to domestic packages, the only other thing the Seller needs to do is fill up a Customs Export and Declaration Form.  I do not understand the complication shippers run into filling out these forms unless they have poor reading and writing skills.   My personal opinion on this matter: GSP program members are spoiled by Ebay at the expense of buyers.

Afraid of the package getting lost in the mail that's where insurance sold by CanadaPost comes in handy.   Compared to the costs charged by GSP, the mailing cost of Canada Post and USPS is still more cost effective. 

Need proof of mailing, I take pictures of every package I leave at the hands of Canada Post with the postage label clearly shown as proof that I mailed it out and what my packaging looks like.

The only time I buy from Sellers that use GSP is when I really like or need something that is either not available in Canada  or you can't get it cheap here in Canada and even with GSP, the cost still comes out a bargain.  This is a once in a blue moon kind of thing for me.  The purchase I made from the UK Ebay member (see my first post above) is one of those rare purchases.  

Well, I finally got the item I purchased from Ebay yesterday.  It arrived in one piece.  However, the packing is flimsy as hell.  I would never ever ship something in a pathetic manner.  The shipper grabbed a piece of cardboard and formed an open ended rectangular tube.  Placed the item in it along with a few air pillows and sealed both ends using packing tape.   Oh well, the important thing is that it arrived safely and intact.

[reallynicestamps]

I do not really understand what makes UK and US Ebay Sellers so hung-up shipping to international destinations. 

 Trump.

Brexit.

The GSP was a response to the paranoia and xenophobia of US sellers. US sales were flat and eBay developed the GSP as a Seller Protection that would encourage terrified Amurricans to sell outside their own borders.

Did you know US sellers can refuse to ship to Alaska and Hawai'i? Did you know they can refuse to ship to their own Armed Forces (APO addresses)?

And don't get me started on Puerto Rico.

The Seller is protected by :

• cheap tracked shipping to a domestic address , after which GSP takes responsibility for delivery.
• foreign duty and sales taxes are paid in advance and eBay will remove feedback complaints about such fees
• foreign duty and sales taxes are paid in advance so the buyer cannot refuse to pickup the parcel on which import fees are due
• extended coverage by GSP of damaged, late, or not as described products.

There is no advantage to the buyer in there.

• I won't say it is more expensive, because the seller would be using tracked USPS First Class International Parcel, which is not particularly cheap, and because Canadian duty and taxes would still be due*.
• Although following the tracking upsets a lot of buyers, USPS and Canada Post use hub and spoke distribution too, so those odd travels are a red herring.
• Thousands of US and UK sellers (the ones who voted for Trump and Brexit) are now making their products available to the world instead of staying in their cocoons.

*And yes, CBSA and Canada Post have been ignoring low value parcels for years, the duty and sales taxes are still technically payable.

[ferret-mom]

I have only bought from one US seller since the inception of the GSP program, and only because the item was not available domestically. That said, I often do "sold" searches for goods that I am thinking of listing, and am always blown away by the shipping costs to Canada -- particularly for flat, lightweight items like sewing patterns or booklets. Something that a seller could easily slip into an envelope and drop in the mail (if he/she were motivated to do so) for a few dollars would end up costing upwards of $20 or more once GSP shipping becomes involved.

Unfortunately, there are now too many hands out waiting for their share of what used to be a simple transaction between a buyer and a seller.

It used to be such fun....

[momcqueen]

"Unfortunately, there are now too many hands out waiting for their share of what used to be a simple transaction between a buyer and a seller."

Like the federal government who is legally entitled to collect sales tax on any import by mail valued at more than the $20 CAD de minimus? There are also categories of goods where the de minims is zero dollars.

The Global Shipping Program does so with a handling fee which is about half the price of what Canada Post charges to do it. If your sales tax and/or duty on an international purchase is being collected by a courier, expect that handling fee to start at $20 alone and also include an additional brokerage fee which is then added to the $20 and increases as a percentage based on value. 

Luckily, there is a solution: shop from sellers located within Canada. They've already paid the import fees for you. 

[femmefan1946]

@ferret-mom

blown away by the shipping costs to Canada -- particularly for flat, lightweight items like sewing patterns or booklets. Something that a seller could easily slip into an envelope

Although to be fair, I paid $8.78 to Canada Post to ship a pattern to Colorado this week. It weighed 158 gr but was 3.5cm thick and had to go parcel.

I don't actually pay Canada Post though. I use discount mint postage stamps which reduce my costs considerably.

Your US sellers are determined to use tracking. And international tracking is expensive-- and hard to find.

USPS puts its high price services first on their website. Take a look:

https://postcalc.usps.com/?country=10440

The cheapest tracked service is First Class International Parcel. Did you even see that?

The seller has to go to Size and Shape then scroll to the bottom of the list to find the service.

There is no letter rate on the list, because the site doesn't support it.

Oddly, this gives us Canadian sellers a boost, since we can sell those lightweight, low bulk items to Canadian and overseas addresses more cheaply than our US competitors.

And at about the same cost to US buyers as our competitors offer.

[ferret-mom]

@femmefan1946

"Although to be fair, I paid $8.78 to Canada Post to ship a pattern to Colorado this week. It weighed 158 gr but was 3.5cm thick and had to go parcel."

Whenever I had a thick pattern to mail, I would remove the sheets from the envelope and arrange them on a thin 9" x 12" piece of cardboard then slide the whole works into a brown envelope. That made it easier to fit through the slot, thus making it eligible for lettermail. And, like you, I would use postage stamps rather than metered postage.

While it is true that we have an advantage over US sellers when it comes to serving fellow Canadians, it is still a challenge to attract those who may have an interest in what I have to offer.

My enthusiasm has waned over the years...

[femmefan1946]

My patterns are sold as 'factory folded' so that wouldn't work for me.

Still the occasional parcel rate is covered by Cookie Jar Insurance and the thrifts around here have very low prices on sewing patterns, so I'm content.

[marnotom!]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

Need proof of mailing, I take pictures of every package I leave at the hands of Canada Post with the postage label clearly shown as proof that I mailed it out and what my packaging looks like.

---

How does that help a seller?  If a buyer complains to you or files a claim with eBay or PayPal for a not-received item, knowing that you sent off the item and what it looks like doesn't count for squat, I'm afraid.  The buyer is complaining that they didn't receive the item, not that you didn't send it.  eBay and PayPal are going to be looking for evidence that the buyer did, in fact, receive the item in order for you to prevail in the claim.

Of course, proof of delivery is available through most postal options to Canada, but they're not necessarily available to other countries.  International sales make up such a small proportion of most US sellers' sales that it's simply easier to use calculated shipping for the same shipping method, no matter where the item is destined.  If a certain country has delivery problems, that's often enough to give a seller cold feet when it comes to dealing with the other 190 or so countries in the world.

[momcqueen]

Proof of Shipment is required for many third-party insurers. It’s not Proof of Delivery and helps squat in an Item Not Received case but it will allow a seller to recoup their losses if they bought insurance on the parcel and the buyer is willing to also sign their affidavit it wasn’t received.