Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals

<p>http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics/online-shopping-cross-border-duties-taxes-1.3647965</p>
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<p><strong><font size="3">Why the government keeps spoiling your online bargains: Neil Macdonald</font></strong></p>
<p>Neil Macdonald &middot; Senior Correspondent &middot; CBC News<br /><em>As any Canadian who's ever naively bought anything on the American version of eBay (or, for that matter, any U.S. retail website) must by now know, Ottawa is determined to spoil your bargain.</em></p>
<p><em>If the purchase is a penny over $20 Cdn, a federal customs agent will intercept it, open it, delay it, add federal and provincial sales taxes, and, depending on the origin of the merchandise, perhaps pile on some duty charges &mdash; basically protectionist taxes.</em></p>
<p><em>By the time the government is done, the price of the package can easily rise by 50 per cent. And of course customs brokers usually have to wet their beaks, inflating the final cost of the average package by another 20, 30 or 40 per cent.</em></p>
<p><em>U.S. duty-free limit for web purchases 40 times higher than Canada's</em><br /><em>76% of Canadians shopped online last year</em><br /><em>Basically, Ottawa has ensured that shipping across our border is such an expensive, paperwork-heavy pain that a lot of American merchants and eBay sellers simply don't bother shipping to Canada....</em></p>
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<p>Read more to get to the part that says this study commissioned by eBay Canada<em>.</em></p>
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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals

 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/online-shopping-cross-border-duties-taxes-1.3647965

 

ANALYSIS Why the government keeps spoiling your online bargains: Neil Macdonald
New study looks at what would happen if feds raised threshold for charging cross-border duties and taxes

By Neil Macdonald, CBC News Posted: Jun 23, 2016 12:02 AM ET Last Updated: Jun 23, 2016 12:02 AM ET

If a Canadian buys something worth more than $20 Cdn from a U.S. website, a federal customs agent will intercept it, open it, delay it, add federal and provincial sales taxes, and, depending on the origin of the merchandise, perhaps pile on some duty charges.

If a Canadian buys something worth more than $20 Cdn from a U.S. website, a federal customs agent will intercept it, open it, delay it, add federal and provincial sales taxes, and, depending on the origin of the merchandise, perhaps pile on some duty charges. (Canada Post) 

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As any Canadian who's ever naively bought anything on the American version of eBay (or, for that matter, any U.S. retail website) must by now know, Ottawa is determined to spoil your bargain.

If the purchase is a penny over $20 Cdn, a federal customs agent will intercept it, open it, delay it, add federal and provincial sales taxes, and, depending on the origin of the merchandise, perhaps pile on some duty charges — basically protectionist taxes.

By the time the government is done, the price of the package can easily rise by 50 per cent. And of course customs brokers usually have to wet their beaks, inflating the final cost of the average package by another 20, 30 or 40 per cent.

Basically, Ottawa has ensured that shipping across our border is such an expensive, paperwork-heavy pain that a lot of American merchants and eBay sellers simply don't bother shipping to Canada.

The system actually seems designed to be burdensome and sclerotic.....

 

Keep reading to get to the part where it says the study was commissioned by Ebay Canada.

 

Message 2 of 37
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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals

(My apologies for the duplicate comment, the first was done from my mobile device which added a pile of pointless html and rendered the link unusable and body text unreadable.)

Message 3 of 37
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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals

You'd think an established journalist like MacDonald would know the difference between 'might' and 'will'.

 

Perhaps he spent Father's Day with his brother Norm.

Message 4 of 37
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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals

I'd like to have seen some greater and sustained coverage of the $20 insult starting say 17 years ago.  It's just pathetic and makes me feel like I'm part of something weak and sad, and given the cost of collection being greater than the funds collected as reported, also stupid.  Regardless, currently the bigger barriers to me buying are:

1) weak Canadian dollar

2) horrible shipping cost applies also to light and otherwise low cost items

3) lack of Canadian retailers who will mail to customers, or who even have what I want to buy in the first place  (even Amazon.ca wants $32 to ship a single CD if you live in the more remote zones, where if that's where you live, you would really like to be able to buy things without travelling hundreds of km)

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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals

Personally I agree fully with the $20.00 limit.  It helps protect Canadian retail jobs.

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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals


@pierrelebel wrote:

Personally I agree fully with the $20.00 limit.  It helps protect Canadian retail jobs.


How does it protect Canadian retail jobs when the $20 limit is so poorly enforced? There are not enough resources to enforce the limit so why not have a limit that can be enforced and not selectively.

 

Perhaps there is no limit that can be enforced because the volume of goods is so high that even checking the declared limit takes too much time before even starting the paperwork. Perhaps only randomly checked is possible today until all shipments are tracked and electronically enforced which seems to be where shipping is going. The end of no tracked services may be where shipping is going in the near future.

Message 7 of 37
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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals

The law and its enforcement are two different subjects.

 

I approve of the $20 limit and deplore the lack of enforcement when it comes to postal imports.  It appears the $20 limit is properly and correctly enforced by all other methods of transportation.

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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals


@pocomocomputing wrote:

How does it protect Canadian retail jobs when the $20 limit is so poorly enforced? There are not enough resources to enforce the limit so why not have a limit that can be enforced and not selectively.

 


If Macdonald's report is an accurate reflection of the study in question, it does make me wonder why the lack of enforcement of the $20 threshold for postal imports wasn't mentioned at all.  Either eBay has its head stuck in the sand when it comes to this issue, or else it's under the impression that it's just the "import charges" that are turning Canadian buyers off of the Global Shipping Program when in fact it's much more than that.

I also have to take issue with those office chair pundits in Washington figuring that Canadian retailers have to get more competitive.  They're generally plenty competitive.  Many US-based retailers setting up shop here in Canada--including Walmart--have been surprised that it hasn't been the walk in the park that they expected.  In fact, now that Loblaw owns Shoppers Drug Mart/Pharmaprix, it does more in annual sales than Walmart Canada does.

 

 

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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals

Basically, MacDonald is looking at the situation in theory (your imports WILL be opened) rather than in reality, where most inexpensive items are ignored, most customs labels are respected (and the parcel is not opened), and only a few suspect packages are actually opened and checked.

 

Frankly this is sloppy journalism mixed with editorializing.

 

Does MacDonald believe that every single package coming into Canada is opened and inspected by CBSA officers? If they were, unemployment would disappear as CBSA hires every laid off oil worker and underemployed barista who can handle a boxcutter and tape gun.

Message 10 of 37
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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals

"Frankly this is sloppy journalism mixed with editorializing."

 

I totally agree.

Message 11 of 37
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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals

An 'analysis' is always a non-objective piece, like an editorial. 

 

 

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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals

Still, the writer should be using facts to back his opinions.

 

Sounds to me like MacDonald bought something online for the first time and was faced with a demand for 'import fees' on his doorstep by the courier (or Canada Post).

We've met that guy before on these Boards.

Message 13 of 37
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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals

Ha, yes.
Message 14 of 37
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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals

marnotom!
Community Member
Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed with MacDonald's analysis here. I've been impressed with his insights into issues out of Washington, but he seems out of his depth here. 😕
Message 15 of 37
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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals

IMO they should leave it just as it is.  A $20 limit is just fine, but my observations only apply to online purchases and sales and probably don't generalize to the real world very well.

 

Since my only International transactions are on line I have no comment about other types of International transactions.

 

If they raise the limit to $80 they would likely also enforce it, at least at first.

 

As it stands now, at $20 they rarely collect regardless of where the item is valued.     There is a very loose and weak relationship between the two factors.

 

The reasoning behind the $20 limit is that it protects Canadian sellers.

Perhaps that's so in other areas, but it does little for eBay sellers if anything at all.

 

That is, if my sales are any indication, Canadian eBayers are not buying from Canadians even with a $20 limit.

Increasing the limit to $80 or $800 won't make them buy any less from Canadians because it's already rock bottom.

 

 

Leaving it just where it is, at $20, works for me as a buyer and changing it would only rock the boat.

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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals

And the follow-up today....

 

Milking won't stop until Canadian online shoppers speak up: Neil MacdonaldNeil Macdonald · Senior Correspondent · CBC News

In the hot lobbying firefight going on at the moment over the government's systematic stifling of international online shopping by Canadians, one important voice is absent: consumers.

This is not terribly unusual. Farmers seldom ask the cow for permission to milk it.

But Canadian consumers seem largely unaware that a significant matter of their economic self-interest is being decided by others, quietly and behind closed doors.

In the Canadian order of things, access to consumers is controlled by government, which grants pretty much exclusive privileges to Canada's business sector, in return for guarantees of stability and an unshaken status quo.

That is especially so with e-commerce, at least where the massive American and European marketplaces are concerned. So strictly is international online shopping controlled, and penalized, that Canadians seem to have largely given up trying.

Once Canada Customs tacks on protectionist duties and sales taxes and customs brokers add their fees, the package often becomes so expensive as to render the purchase pointless, which of course is the point.

Ebay online shopping

If a Canadian buys something worth more than $20 Cdn from a U.S. website, a federal customs agent will intercept it, open it, delay it, add federal and provincial sales taxes, and, depending on the origin of the merchandise, perhaps pile on some duty charges. ( Andrew Harrer/Bloomberg)

Further, the Canadian threshold for taxing and applying duty to imports, known as de minimis, is a mere $20, the lowest in the developed world (the Americans don't tax or apply duty to any package worth less than $800 US, more than 40 times the Canadian limit).

This pax canadiana, designed mainly for the benefit of Canadian retailers and, they would argue, their employees, has been around forever, but a loose coalition of Americans and Canadians has for years been demanding that Canada open its online consumer market.

The group includes small and large Canadian businesses that buy and sell mostly with Americans, courier companies, big online retailers, resellers like Amazon and eBay, and even powerful American politicians.

"Canada's low de minimis threshold represents an unnecessary trade barrier between our two countries," wrote 12 U.S. senators in a letter to then-Canadian ambassador Gary Doer last year.

GERMANY/

eBay Canada has been lobbying the federal government to raise its $20 threshold for charging Canadians cross-border duties and taxes on goods purchased online from the U.S. (REUTERS)

Now, the coalition believes it is close to success, perhaps as early as this autumn's budget update, but believes the key is galvanizing Canadian consumers.

"Either we start behaving like a trading bloc or we don't," says Maryscott Greenwood of the Canadian-American Business Council, which recently put up an online petition, sponsored by Liberal MP Sonia Sidhu (who has an Amazon facility in her Ontario riding), demanding that Canada "dump the duties and taxes."

The council says it has so far collected more than 1,000 signatures from Canadians, but lobbyists like Greenwood also know that Canadian consumers, unlike Americans, are relatively quiescent, and many seem to have accepted that being Canadian means paying more taxes and higher prices for just about everything.

Bruce Cran, president of the Consumers' Association of Canada, says his group simply cannot afford a seat at the Ottawa table, but is delighted to lay out the CAC position: it wants the Canadian de minimis threshold raised to at least $800, which is the American level, and which is also the amount of merchandise a Canadian can physically bring back across the border after 48 hours in the U.S.

In the past, says Cran, CAC had the ear of Stephen Harper's finance minister, Jim Flaherty, even though the Conservatives ultimately did nothing about the de minimis threshold. (A spokesman for interim Conservative Leader Rona Ambrose could not articulate the party's current position on the issue.)

Stepping gingerly 

Nowadays, Cran says, his group is ignored, and business groups are allowed to speak for consumers.

"How does that make sense?"

That's not to say there aren't free traders in cabinet. International Trade Minister Chrystia Freeland, for one, is seen as supportive of a sharp increase in the Canadian import threshold.

Chrystia Freeland

International Trade Minister Chrystia Freeland. (Sean Kilpatrick/Canadian Press)

But the government, knowing the Retail Council of Canada's resolute opposition to any change in the status quo, and the fact that the RCC represents businesses employing 1.9 million workers, is stepping gingerly.

The RCC complains that unlike American retailers, Canadian merchants must collect sales taxes for Ottawa and the provinces, which puts them at an unfair disadvantage.

"We are listening to both sides intently," says Daniel Lauzon, spokesman for Finance Minister Bill Morneau.

"While we're broadly supportive of streamlining custom processing and importation requirements, when it comes to waiving duties and taxes, we need to carefully consider the impact that would have on Canadians and on Canadian businesses," he wrote later, in a magnificent bit of boilerplate echoed by Chrystia Freeland's spokesman.

Ad hoc

Andrea Stairs, CEO of eBay Canada, says the status quo is ad hoc and shambolic.

"There is no effective de minimis level right now," she says.

Canadian travellers are given a different limit than Canadian online shoppers. And while courier services faithfully turn every shipment over $20 to a customs broker, Canada Post is more haphazard, taking in shipments from the U.S. Postal Service and "literally dumping parcels on a conveyor belt" for Canada Customs to peruse.

As a result, consumers who insist a purchase be sent by post instead of courier can easily find a shipment worth much more than the $20 threshold on their doorstep, unopened, untaxed, with no duty or broker's fee added.

Canada Post 111221

Andrea Stairs, CEO of eBay Canada, says packages worth more than the $20 Canadian threshold are more likely to have taxes and duty added if they're sent via courier rather than by post. (Canada Post)

Like the coalition behind the online petition, eBay badly wants the de minimis level raised. So does Amazon, but neither e-commerce giant is ready yet to use the power and reach of their websites to appeal directly to Canadian customers, which, says one lobbyist involved in the effort, "would mean game over by tomorrow morning," but which would also annoy the government.

"We've preferred working with the government to get it to move," says Stairs. "And we've done some scholarly work." (That's a reference to a recent C.D. Howe-reviewed study that basically concluded the government spends dollars to collect dimes for the sake of protecting retailers.)

Lauzon, the finance minister's spokesman, says the government intends to consult Canadians "widely" about the issue in the months to come.  

And almost certainly, the subject will come up during the Three Amigos summit this week. The U.S. takes every opportunity to press for a de minimis increase.

But the reality is plain: unless Canadian consumers speak, and loudly, the milking machine will remain in place. There is no force more powerful than the status quo.​



Sent from my iPhone because they'll never catch me now, hah hah hah 
Message 17 of 37
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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals

If a Canadian buys something worth more than $20 Cdn from a U.S. website, a federal customs agent will intercept it, open it, delay it, add federal and provincial sales taxes, and, depending on the origin of the merchandise, perhaps pile on some duty charges. ( Andrew Harrer/Bloomberg)

 

Well at least he attributed his foolish statement ( that should be 'can intercept'  not 'will intercept') this time, and then contradicts it lower down.

 

Good to know that Andrea Stairs is keeping doors open.

 

Is there a Canadian head of AmazonCanada, or do they work completely out of the USA?

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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals


@reallynicestamps wrote:

If a Canadian buys something worth more than $20 Cdn from a U.S. website, a federal customs agent will intercept it, open it, delay it, add federal and provincial sales taxes, and, depending on the origin of the merchandise, perhaps pile on some duty charges. ( Andrew Harrer/Bloomberg)

 

Well at least he attributed his foolish statement ( that should be 'can intercept'  not 'will intercept') this time, and then contradicts it lower down.

 


Foolish statement is right.  

 

Anyone who makes that statement knows nothing about how the system works and has no business presenting as an expert on the subject.

 

Message 19 of 37
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Why The Government Keeps Spoiling Your Online Deals

For all that's in these analyses, there's no explanation given as to why eBay, Amazon and their ilk would like to see changes made to the de minimus for casual imports made by mail or equivalent apart from the inconsistency.  I also have to wonder if eBay's study has actually analysed if Canadians buying habits would change if the tax/duty-free threshold were raised for these types of imports.

Perhaps I'm an oddball exception, but for the sorts of items I generally buy on eBay, which are ones that are very difficult to obtain by other means, I find the exchange rate is more of an impediment to purchasing from outside of Canada than the prospect of being hit with a bill for taxes and duty.

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