Buyer opened "Item Not Received" claim but I have shipping receipt - why did eBay refund them?

[missieyohko]

I was getting a lot of people contacting me about not having International Shipping, and then when I added it they complained it was too much money.  So I offered a cheap shipping option and explicitly stated in my description that it did not include tracking or insurance.  My exact words "Use at your own risk!"

So I had one person open a claim even before the estimated delivery time had elapsed demanding a refund.  I explained the shipping option they chose (the cheapest one) did not have tracking or insurance, and that I had proof of shipment (the receipt).  I suggested they wait longer.

Later I had another buyer open a claim, then they closed it saying it was held at their post office and they closed the claim because they got it.  I suggested to the first buyer they check with their post office and suggested it might be getting returned back to me or something and to please wait longer.

No responses for two weeks.

Then today, suddenly, eBay refunded them.

I did not even GET to show them my receipt.  I had previously read that receipt of shipment was adequate proof for "Item not received" claims.  But eBay didn't even give me a chance to defend myself??  I am outraged and I'm considering taking all my listings down.

[vintagenorth · Accepted solution]

Sorry that you had these problems. As far as I know Ebay does not accept proof of shipment, they only accept a tracking number or acceptance scan that can be seen by them electronically on Canada Post. The only time that proof of shipping is any good is by PayPal in case of a chargeback. So for ebay you need to use a shipping method that includes what Canada Post calls tracking, such as tracked pkt, expedited, or express post (not all these are available to all overseas countries though).

Putting into your listing that you don't use tracking or insurance (insurance is only for your benefit, BTW) is possibly setting yourself up for people to take advantage of you. Most sellers don't even worry about tracking or insurance unless the item is higher priced, maybe over $50 or even more. Just dont ship without tracking to countries that have unreliable postal systems.

[pjcdn2005]

There is no such thing as 'use at your own risk' on ebay. Unless you have online proof that a buyer has received their item, the buyer will win an item not received claim. If an item is damaged in shipping and there is no insurance, the buyer can file a not as described claim so there is no reason for them to worry about insurance. Insurance may benefit the seller in some cases, but not the buyer.

[maximus7001]

"I had previously read that receipt of shipment was adequate proof for "Item not received" claims."

Whoever wrote what you read was wrong. Beware of scammers. If they know it is not tracked then they might scam you. When we send items by small packet usa air or small packet international air there is a bar code with the words "no delivery scan". We use white out to cover those words. Overseas these bar codes can be scanned and end up on their postal website (france for example) and can be used as proof of delivery if it shows delivery on their tracking website. This is not supposed to happen.

The best is to buy your postage from paypal and you get a discount similar to venture 1.

https://www.paypal.com/shipnow

[pocomocomputing]

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@maximus7001 wrote:

"I had previously read that receipt of shipment was adequate proof for "Item not received" claims."

Whoever wrote what you read was wrong. Beware of scammers. If they know it is not tracked then they might scam you. When we send items by small packet usa air or small packet international air there is a bar code with the words "no delivery scan". We use white out to cover those words. Overseas these bar codes can be scanned and end up on their postal website (france for example) and can be used as proof of delivery if it shows delivery on their tracking website. This is not supposed to happen.

The best is to buy your postage from paypal and you get a discount similar to venture 1.

https://www.paypal.com/shipnow

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PayPal shipnow has been discontinued since the eBay / PayPal split in July this year.

[missieyohko]

Thank you for all your responses.  I have been active on eBay for a long time and things have certainly changed.  Very risky to use now.  I'm no longer shipping international again, it's just not worth it.  I only hope this is the last of it.  Take care everyone, and thanks again.

[momcqueen]

If I may, a buyer who complains about the cost of shipping with tracking is a buyer not worth having.

Don't cut off your nose to spite your face by cutting off international shipping because of the one(s) who either complained they didn't get their item or complained about the cost of you seeing they got their item. Set up to ship via Calculated postage and Tracked Packet and/or Xpresspost to overseas.

What may be happening is that the buyers are being dinged on their end for the import taxes and it's making them treat you unfairly.

Also, you must be wary that with your relatively low feedback number, you are fodder for the less-than scrupulous buyers out there. 
I know I met my fair share when I was starting out and shipping without tracking more often than not.

And come February, the only two standards by which a seller will be measured on ebay is fast shipping and fast, tracked shipping. So, go for it.

Also, DON'T offer Surface shipping, tracked or otherwise. The delivery estimate might be four to six weeks but it's more likely eight weeks and you will absolutely LOSE any and all Items Not Received cases with ebay regardless of whether you can see your parcel is on the way to its destination. The buyer must have it in their hands within 30 days or you pay. Literally and figuratively. 

Good luck. 

[femmefan1946]

When we send items by small packet usa air or small packet international air there is a bar code with the words "no delivery scan". We use white out to cover those words. Overseas these bar codes can be scanned and end up on their postal website (france for example) and can be used as proof of delivery if it shows delivery on their tracking website. This is not supposed to happen.

My italics.

Well now, that is a ploy worth trying  even if it only sometimes works and with Murphy's Law kept firmly in the forefront of your planning.

+++++++

The discounts on parcel services through Paypal are much greater than the discounts offered by VentureOne / Solutions for Small Business. The discounts can be 5% to 17% off PO counter prices. Add in the convenience of printing your shipping and customs labels at home and mailbox dropoff*, it's a win all around.

*Some sellers are wary of postboxes,because they report fewer parcels are posted as 'recieved' using the corner boxes. Personally I have had no problems. But I don't send may high-value parcels and mostly use postage stamps/ lettermail in any case.

[femmefan1946]

I had one person open a claim even before the estimated delivery time....

Later I had another buyer open a claim, then they closed it....

Then today, suddenly, eBay refunded them.

Did both buyers get a refund? I have trouble with the third person plural being used as a third person neutral singular.

If the second buyer got a refund after closing the case, you need to phone Customer Support on Monday and get it straightened out.

Do NOT mention the first case.

These are minimum wage workers. On the weekend and late nights you get the Phillipines, where there are language problems although the workers are smarter than the Utah guys who are American and unclear on the concept of 'Canada' and 'overseas'.

[cardconnoisseurs]

Whatever happened to Ebay changing many categories to remove buyer protection for items sent without tracking? As far as I am concered, if a seller offers both a tracked and untracked service, the buyer should not have the right to a seller-funded "item not arrived" claim if they choose the untracked shipping method. The buyer shouldn't get to have their cake and eat it too.

[marnotom!]

I had no idea that the idea was floated of removing buyer protection for untracked items and, quite honestly, I find it hard to believe.

Shipping methods are always up to the seller.  If the seller wants to offer buyers the choice between tracked and untracked shipping, the seller has presumably done the number-crunching to determine the benefit of doing so and is prepared to take any risks inherent to offering untracked shipping.

The shipping method used in a sale is more for the seller's benefit and peace of mind than the buyer's.

[kh-leslie]

Hi everyone,

Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

Thank you for understanding.