Bye eBay

[chicweb]

It's over.

Note to every seller: eBay decided that shipping smartphone from USA to Canada is dangerous. Yep.

A customer wanted a return for NAD. We accepted it because we made a mistake in the listing. Our fault.

We told the customer we would pay them the shipping, to just tell us the amount.

They said USPS won't ship it back because of a lithium battery in the phone (an iPhone). I told them they could send it by ground. They decided to open a case with eBay.

eBay said the item was dangerous to ship it back, so I have to refund AND lose the phone. Sooooo. Yup. Ebay is telling us that shipping a Smartphone from USA to Canada is dangerous. 

The fun fact is: I spoke to an agent an hour before explaining the situation. They told me I was doing everything correctly and to wait for the customer to ship it back. That they could use another courrier.

Still, they decided to go with the buyer.

So, I ended all my listing and going elsewhere, me and my 5k inventory. I was very motivated, adding 5 to 10 items per day.

But now, nope.

Have fun y'all.

[flipistics]

You appear to live in a border town. Is there not a place across the river where you can have packages sent? Most border towns have at least one. Just open an account on Pirate Ship, buy the return label using a ground service, and have it sent there.

[chicweb]

We are not at a border town. We are at 2 hours drive from the border.

Basically, sending smartphone from USA to Canada is dangerous.

Do NOT sell smartphone to US customers or they will just say they never receive it or INAD and they cannot send it back... and they will win. Having a free phone.

[brettjet38]

Find out what you can and can’t ship

Use our tools to see what you’re allowed to ship within Canada and around the world.

Please note, lithium batteries can only be shipped within Canada and to the U.S.A. Lithium batteries can still be received in Canada from international destinations. View the full list of prohibited items.

https://www.canadapost-postescanada.ca/cpc/en/personal/sending/parcels/restrictions.page

This issue has nothing to do with Canada Post nor eBay, maybe the US have a different set of rules, but you can still bring in phone from the USA with Lithium batteries...

Maybe you are overreacting, much?

[reallynicestamps]

 I spoke to an agent an hour before explaining the situation. They told me I was doing everything correctly

The phone reps have a terrible reputation for getting you off the phone as soon as possible even if that means giving you the advice you want to hear instead of the advice you need to have.


https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness/ — Message button in upper right on landing page.

https://www.instagram.com/ebayforsellers/


https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/How-do-I-contact-Customer-Support/m-p/32016431#M1783851 -> Automated Assistant, type AGENT -> enter. You will then get more options.



The social media Chat accounts are covered by trained eBay employees with some authority.

And you get a transcript so you can compare what you heard with what you were told.
 

[chicweb]

That is not true.

The customer said he CAN'T ship the smartphone with USPS to Canada.

I lost 300$. Overeacting? Really?

I'm not talking about Canada Post. I'm talking about USPS and the customer wanting to return the Item.

So any customer can say they cannot ship a smartphone back and they will win. 

We accepted the return, we were waiting for it to be shipped and the customer to tell us how much it costed them. No matter the shipping method.

eBay decided it was too dangerous to ship it back, case closed, buyer wins, I lose 300$.

[chicweb]

I was with an agent on the chat. They told me to wait for the item to be shipped back before the refund. At this point, everything was correct.

Then the customer open a case. That's where it goes very wrong.

The customer could have shipped any way he wanted... We told him we would pay. Ebay just decided to make me pay and lose the phone.

[flipistics]

I'd contact them through eBay for Business on Facebook and try to get that decision overturned if I were you.

That said, for a $300 item I would have found a way to get it returned without relying on an apparently questionable customer. There should be options, even if you don't want to drive the 2hrs to pick it up across the border.  Buying postage on Pirate Ship and having the border portion and Canadian shipping handled by Shippsy (owned by Stallion Express) would probably work, for example, assuming you couldn't just have it done directly with Pirate Ship's simple export rate (unsure for something that has a lithium battery).  Buying a label with Shippo might also be an option.

[brettjet38]

Expensive lesson learned, here are the rules it took 2 mins to find in the the USPS, you would have got your answer..

NO you cannot ship them to Canada from the US.

https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Can-I-Ship-Lithium-Batteries

Can I Ship Lithium Batteries?

Where to locate current regulations regarding the mailability of lithium batteries.

Sep 6, 2023•Knowledge

Article Number

000004846

Customer Information

Customers can take to their local Post Office packages containing new lithium batteries installed in electronic devices that are bound for many international destinations, and Army (APO), Fleet (FPO) and Diplomatic Post Office (DPO) locations. 

• For information on specific country restrictions, see the Postal Explorer or the Individual Country Listings of the International Mail Manual.
• For specific APO, FPO, or DPO restrictions, see the information for the destination ZIP Code™ in the article titled “Overseas Military/Diplomatic Mail” published in the latest issue of the Postal Bulletin.

What is prohibited and may not be mailed internationally or to, from, or between APO, FPO, or DPO locations?

• New lithium batteries packed with or sent separately from equipment.
• Used, damaged, defective, or recalled lithium batteries installed in, packed with, or sent separately from equipment.

Lithium batteries can be shipped domestically, including Alaska and Hawaii. Different requirements apply to domestically-shipped lithium batteries than on international commercial air transportation. See the “Lithium Batteries” entry on the Domestic Shipping Prohibitions & Restrictions page for USPS’ requirements regarding domestic transportation of lithium batteries.

• What kind of electronic devices contain lithium batteries?  

  Examples of common electronic devices containing lithium batteries include: cameras, video cameras, mobile/smart phones, Bluetooth headsets, laptop computers, shavers, portable DVD players, tablets, two-way radios, and GPS devices.

[chicweb]

There you Go. 

So DON'T SELL SMARTPHONE TO USA. Customer will not ship it back and you will have to refund them and lose the phone.

That's what I said.

I paid for you all to know this, I guess.

Even if this customer could have used ANY other shipping methods out there... eBay still decided to let them win and keep the phone.

[marnotom!]

So if this is good-bye eBay, how do you plan on selling Smartphones to US customers instead?

[chicweb]

We are not. This one a one time thing.

My own old phone sold as used.

We are selling comics and vinyls but we will go elsewhere to sell them now.

[lotzofuniquegoodies]

---

@brettjet38 wrote:

Expensive lesson learned, here are the rules it took 2 mins to find in the the USPS, you would have got your answer..

NO you cannot ship them to Canada from the US.

https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Can-I-Ship-Lithium-Batteries

Can I Ship Lithium Batteries?

Where to locate current regulations regarding the mailability of lithium batteries.

Sep 6, 2023•Knowledge

Article Number

000004846

Customer Information

Customers can take to their local Post Office packages containing new lithium batteries installed in electronic devices that are bound for many international destinations, and Army (APO), Fleet (FPO) and Diplomatic Post Office (DPO) locations. 

• For information on specific country restrictions, see the Postal Explorer or the Individual Country Listings of the International Mail Manual.
• For specific APO, FPO, or DPO restrictions, see the information for the destination ZIP Code™ in the article titled “Overseas Military/Diplomatic Mail” published in the latest issue of the Postal Bulletin.

What is prohibited and may not be mailed internationally or to, from, or between APO, FPO, or DPO locations?

• New lithium batteries packed with or sent separately from equipment.
• Used, damaged, defective, or recalled lithium batteries installed in, packed with, or sent separately from equipment.

Lithium batteries can be shipped domestically, including Alaska and Hawaii. Different requirements apply to domestically-shipped lithium batteries than on international commercial air transportation. See the “Lithium Batteries” entry on the Domestic Shipping Prohibitions & Restrictions page for USPS’ requirements regarding domestic transportation of lithium batteries.

• What kind of electronic devices contain lithium batteries?  

  Examples of common electronic devices containing lithium batteries include: cameras, video cameras, mobile/smart phones, Bluetooth headsets, laptop computers, shavers, portable DVD players, tablets, two-way radios, and GPS devices.

---

@chicweb 

@marnotom! 

@brettjet38 

devon@ebay 

In doing a quick basic check there are currently 6700+ Vintage Cell Phones, 85,000 iPhones and 18,000 + cordless phones listed on dot ca. Just for a perspective. Does this mean there would could be potentially up to that many problems and more if something went off the rails with a transaction and a return was required? Would buyers, if they received the goods be unable to return after the fact? Seller is then left high and dry? Throw in reverse shipped and problem expands big time on these types of category of items. Amazon is able ship items anything with a built in lithium battery because they have the trained staff and network to do so. A basic seller in both Canada and USA in most cases does not. Houston, we may have a problem?!?!?

-Lotzofuniquegoodies

[chicweb]

The main problem, I think, is that eBay decided that:

1. The only shipping carrier was USPS.

2. Since USPS couldn't ship it back, it was too dangerous to ship it back completely.

3. Seller lose the item, the seller refunds.

What about other carriers? Why can't we buy return shipping labels on eBay? Why the seller must reimburse an item and lose it if the customer cannot ship it back? How is it the seller's fault?

That's literally giving items away (and smartphone can be kinda expensive).

Way too dangerous and crazy to even understand why this can happen.

[ricarmic]

This is why I rarely sell outside my area of expertise. Whilst I've been selling here for almost 25 years now, I have rarely ventured outside my primary (stamps) selling categories for this reason, I don't know all the trials and tribulations of selling "other stuff".

Having said this though, lately I've ventured "out" a bit more, a lego Canada post truck that was much better sold in lego categories than stamps categories, and some foreign currency in the money categories. So far so good, but they're at least still relatively close to what I'm selling primarily in terms of collectibles. I'd never personally sell a phone here, or if I did I would limit it to Canadians only.

When you have had time to separate the emotion of losing the $150 phone from the overall "separate" business of selling here in your primary categories you may think differently. To my mind this harkens to the days when someone loses a package to the UK and immediately stops selling anything there, that too is an emotional decision vs a business decision. It is very very hard to separate the emotional responses during situations like this, especially in situations where the buyer is being extra difficult or "criminal" but being able to compartmentalize those things are an important skill to build when trying to sell anywhere online, in my opinion at least.

[chicweb]

It is a business decision. 

I refuse to put my business, money and my employees income at risk by a company that seem to take random decisions not at all logical or inconsistent with their own policies and what their own agents told me.

If a user don't return an item, the seller don't have to refund. The agent even told me that it wouldn't affect my performance.

My time and money will be best invested elsewhere. 😉

[ricarmic]

Sure I understand your perspective, not sure how many sites you're selling on, ALL the sites I've ever sold on (about 8 now including ebay but given I have trouble remembering what I had for breakfast by this time of day there might be more!) have had problems/frustrations/expesive flaws, some to the point that I've had to stop selling on them as well so yes there are for certain very valid reasons for ceasing to sell on a site..... my point was only that it appears that selling something outside your expertise was the bigger issue but I could be wrong.

[sparx_63]

Hello

I have sold phones with lithium batteries to the US. 

Lithium batteries cannot be shipped only if they are charged.  The issue is in air transport, with the battery possibly causing a fire.  There is no issue if they are new and never been charged i.e. a sealed new package.

They can even be shipped by ground when charged, but must be packaged separated from the phone, and the package must have a Transport Dangerous Goods sticker attached.  An absolute pain.  It would be a difficult return to do for any person unfamiliar with shipping.

Did you look into the possibility of having the customer ship the phone back without the battery?  At least the most valuable part would have been returned.  Then you could negotiate a partial refund for the non return of the battery.  

Getting EBAY customer support, as we all know, is the least effective way of dealing with the issue.  I am sympathetic about your bad experience, but I can't help but think that if maybe you came to the forum for help first, we might have been able to be of assistance. 

As mentioned by others replying to your post, all online selling venues have their issues, with many possibilities of mistakes being made.  All sellers in here have made mistakes and have had sales that have had poor outcomes.  It is unfortunately a part of this business we all face.  The choice to make is if we learn from the mistake and move forward with a positive outlook, or let the mistake have a greater impact than is deserved.

[rocketscollectibles]

Unfortunately that's a case lost because of a lack of knowledge. Don't blame ebay. 

Not sure about other carriers but buyer did not lie.

USPS internationally restricted items: 

Prohibited Lithium Battery Shipments

• Lithium batteries packed with, but not installed in, equipment
• Lithium batteries sent separately from equipment
• Damaged or recalled batteries
• All pre-owned, damaged, or defective electronic devices containing or packaged with lithium batteries

What's your expectation here if he can't ship back tho. Have the buyer pay for an item not as described that you even admit being your fault, and you keep their money? 

From date of sale nov 26th and case closed dec 6th. I suspect you did not accept return in the case in rules too. A return accepted in the case would have switched to status awaiting shipment on buyer's side. A case closed this fast looks like it was closed for being a case closed without resolution. 

[byto253]

I am fortunate enough to have a US side parcel holding service that will hold a package for 1 year for $5.   I use that for returns that are very expensive to ship across the border, or have possible issues.  It is 1.5 hours a way but we get that way once or twice a year.   

And when we do go I will ship from the US side if there are sales to go - I will try to post up and trigger sales on bulkier items to ship from the US side.

If you sell to the US and it can work, some kind of contingency return address like that is usefull.