Canada Post + Ebay = No chance for the Seller

[kaymar_88]

Hello,

First time posting but I read you guys often. This is just me sharing an experience I had. It is a bit long so sorry in advance for that:

I sold a 225$ Nike Running Vest that I had purchased at a local store, brand new. I think I paid 25$ or 30$ for it and sold it to a US buyer for 99$ (plus shipping). I choose Expedited shipping when items are more than 60$. I took the insurance and put 99$ as the amount of the value (it is valued much more than that but it cost extra if you want to insure the item for more than 100$ but figured it would at least cover my cost + time + shipping more than enough if something happens),

Buyer pays immediately and I process the item right away. I print my shipping label online and then take my package to my local post office as I usually do when I choose expedited shipping so they can scan it. Same lady at the counter that has seem me almost every day for the last year, she takes my package and scans it.

After  1 week (delivery estimation is between 4-8 business days) I check to see where the package is and to my surprise, the last entry is ``Item scanned by Canada Post``. Nothing after that. I said to myself maybe they forgot the scan it at the warehouse or something. I forget about it. 2 weeks later the buyer opens a case with Ebay that he has not received his package. He called Canada Post but they tell him that the sender must call them to report this.

I called Canada Post and they say they will open a case for me. After 10 days, I receive this answer from them:

When a delivery is picked up and a manifest is presented to the delivery agent, the scan confirms the shipment has been picked up by Canada Post. When the shipment arrives at the processing plant, the items it contains are scanned individually.

When an item does not appear in the item scan, there is no confirmation it was part of the shipment. For that reason, we do not assume liability for it. this is set out in the agreement you signed with Canada Post and it is the case with this claim. As such we cannot compensate you for it.

Regrettable, we may only address the claim aspect of your service ticket therefore we regret to inform you we cannot confirm we received your item thus unable to compensate further.

So I decided to call them because this does not make any sense to me as I believe once they scan the item, it is out of my responsibility. The guy on the phone said yeah that makes sense and I will re-open the ticket for you. 1 week later I received this beauty of an answer:

With respect to the letter previously sent to you we understand that you had the call center re-open this case because you indicated that the following scan is an induction scan of the item (they show me the scan from the post office accepting the item).

Please note this scan only identifies the retail post office receiving / inducting the paperwork of mail however the actual mail was not scanned.

So I called again and ask where does my responsibility towards the item ends and when does Canada Post begin. They told me that I am responsible up until the item is delivered to the address......So I asked them is, from now on, I should quit my job and just follow the item around or the driver to make sure it is properly delivered. They said no sir you do not need to do that...  Ha!

I told them that I would quit my job and go work at a retail Canada Post Office or as a delivery person because it seems that they have a license to steal.

So now I decided to call the ombudsman and make a complaint. they rejected my complaint in 1 day because I did not have a proof of the value of the item.....So even if I had the proof of the item, I would have only received a 25$ compensation instead of the 99$ I lost on the sale...But I do not keep my receipt to sell on Ebay.....

So I told myself, fine, I won`t bother them anymore, it is a lost cause. I will at least try to get the defect removed since it is obviously not my fault that the package was lost. Ha!

Ebay tells me that they cannot remove the defect since it is I that choose Post Canada to deliver the item, thus I am responsible for the item until it reaches the specified address....

Funny how, when calling Ebay for a lost package, the first thing they ask is if we have a tracking number and if we don`t have one, they tell us we should get tracking and now that I have it, it's useless.

So I lost a 99$ sale

I lost the value of the item plus my time

I get a defect

I lost about 8 hours of my time for nothing dealing with Canada Post and Ebay.

Nice!

[femmefan1946]

You sold an item for $99

You shipped it Expedited.

Was it delivered?

What does the tracking say about its current location?

Did the buyer complain that it was not delivered?

You left the delivery/non-delivery part out, but I'm guessing that the buyer complained.

How long after purchase did he complain?

Did you give him the tracking number?

Did he open a Dispute?

Did you give the tracking number in the Dispute?

Because without this number, Paypal tells you to refund. But they are fairly generous about timing, usually allowing the 45 days for the opening of the Dispute and another 20 after it is opened.

Has the tracking number indicated delivery yet? If so, bill your customer again using Paypal's invoicing service. Most people are honest and will pay.

And yes, you are responsible to your customer for prompt secure delivery.

You sub-contracted delivery to Canada Post.

Canada Post is responsible to you, their customer, for prompt secure delivery.

I'm confused about the Ombudsman. I've had Canada Post claims, though not in this decade, and just phoned the nice ladies in New Brunswick at Customer Service. They always refunded promptly on both postage and insurance.

The problem may be that you made your own system instead of following the system already in place.

By the way, the $225 is irrelevant. The amount you are out is the $25 you paid for the shoes, the eBay and PP fees, and the postage you paid. You should have paperwork for all of those.

Although I would also put the eBay sold listing into the mix to show the selling price of the item. It wouldn't hurt.

[femmefan1946]

Since there are two addresses on the parcel, if it is never delivered to your customer it will eventually come back to you.

[pjcdn2005]

Please note this scan only identifies the retail post office receiving / inducting the paperwork of mail however the actual mail was not scanned.

That doesn't make sense. Are they saying that you brought in a number of packages to the post office but that they didn't scan each one individually?  

If the label was purchased online but there was never an acknowledgment by anyone at CP that they received the package, then I could understand them not paying out the insurance claim but it doesn't sound like this was the case.

You don't mention not having a receipt until after the claim was rejected so I don't think that was the problem??

[kaymar_88]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

Since there are two addresses on the parcel, if it is never delivered to your customer it will eventually come back to you.

---

That ship has sailed....It was scanned at the post office and then nothing. Someone at the post office (either the people at the counter or the delivery guy) took it.

[kaymar_88]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Please note this scan only identifies the retail post office receiving / inducting the paperwork of mail however the actual mail was not scanned.

That doesn't make sense. Are they saying that you brought in a number of packages to the post office but that they didn't scan each one individually?  

If the label was purchased online but there was never an acknowledgment by anyone at CP that they received the package, then I could understand them not paying out the insurance claim but it doesn't sound like this was the case.

You don't mention not having a receipt until after the claim was rejected so I don't think that was the problem??

---

They are saying that the retail post office scanned the bar code of the item but that does not prove that the label was attached to the item....I know, does not make sense...

The receipt part is only when I reached out to the ombudsman, the issue is that I am (apparently) responsible for the package until it reach its destination....

[kaymar_88]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

You sold an item for $99

You shipped it Expedited.

Was it delivered?

What does the tracking say about its current location?

Did the buyer complain that it was not delivered?

You left the delivery/non-delivery part out, but I'm guessing that the buyer complained.

How long after purchase did he complain?

Did you give him the tracking number?

Did he open a Dispute?

Did you give the tracking number in the Dispute?

Because without this number, Paypal tells you to refund. But they are fairly generous about timing, usually allowing the 45 days for the opening of the Dispute and another 20 after it is opened.

Has the tracking number indicated delivery yet? If so, bill your customer again using Paypal's invoicing service. Most people are honest and will pay.

And yes, you are responsible to your customer for prompt secure delivery.

You sub-contracted delivery to Canada Post.

Canada Post is responsible to you, their customer, for prompt secure delivery.

I'm confused about the Ombudsman. I've had Canada Post claims, though not in this decade, and just phoned the nice ladies in New Brunswick at Customer Service. They always refunded promptly on both postage and insurance.

The problem may be that you made your own system instead of following the system already in place.

By the way, the $225 is irrelevant. The amount you are out is the $25 you paid for the shoes, the eBay and PP fees, and the postage you paid. You should have paperwork for all of those.

Although I would also put the eBay sold listing into the mix to show the selling price of the item. It wouldn't hurt.

---

Most of your questions are irrelevant. Why do you asked if it was delivered? Of course it was not. I mentionned in my story that the only entry about the tracking was that it had been accepted at the Post office and then nothing. I have already refund the buyer since it was more than 30 days that the tracking number did not show any activity.

And what does that mean:

The problem may be that you made your own system instead of following the system already in place.

[pjcdn2005]

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@kaymar_88 wrote:

---

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Please note this scan only identifies the retail post office receiving / inducting the paperwork of mail however the actual mail was not scanned.

That doesn't make sense. Are they saying that you brought in a number of packages to the post office but that they didn't scan each one individually?  

If the label was purchased online but there was never an acknowledgment by anyone at CP that they received the package, then I could understand them not paying out the insurance claim but it doesn't sound like this was the case.

You don't mention not having a receipt until after the claim was rejected so I don't think that was the problem??

---

They are saying that the retail post office scanned the bar code of the item but that does not prove that the label was attached to the item....I know, does not make sense...

The receipt part is only when I reached out to the ombudsman, the issue is that I am (apparently) responsible for the package until it reach its destination....

---

No, you shouldn't be responsible for the package until it reaches its destination.

Did the original scan say that a 'shipment' was received by Canada Post rather than that an 'item' was accepted?

It sounds as if when the post office accepted the package, they put it in as a manifest for group of packages not one individual package.  If that's the case, their letter makes sense because it is saying that you brought in many packages but that the post office only scanned the manifest, not each package.

This is under liability of coverage...

c) Canada Post shall have no liability for loss of an Item where there is no scan recorded on the individual
Item or evidence of the Item being, or having been, in the course of post. A scan that includes the term
“shipment” signifies that the shipping document (or manifest) was scanned and does not indicate a scan recorded on the individual item.

[kaymar_88]

---

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

---

@kaymar_88 wrote:

---

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Please note this scan only identifies the retail post office receiving / inducting the paperwork of mail however the actual mail was not scanned.

That doesn't make sense. Are they saying that you brought in a number of packages to the post office but that they didn't scan each one individually?  

If the label was purchased online but there was never an acknowledgment by anyone at CP that they received the package, then I could understand them not paying out the insurance claim but it doesn't sound like this was the case.

You don't mention not having a receipt until after the claim was rejected so I don't think that was the problem??

---

They are saying that the retail post office scanned the bar code of the item but that does not prove that the label was attached to the item....I know, does not make sense...

The receipt part is only when I reached out to the ombudsman, the issue is that I am (apparently) responsible for the package until it reach its destination....

---

No, you shouldn't be responsible for the package until it reaches its destination.

Did the original scan say that a 'shipment' was received by Canada Post rather than that an 'item' was accepted?

It sounds as if when the post office accepted the package, they put it in as a manifest for group of packages not one individual package.  If that's the case, their letter makes sense because it is saying that you brought in many packages but that the post office only scanned the manifest, not each package.

This is under liability of coverage...

c) Canada Post shall have no liability for loss of an Item where there is no scan recorded on the individual
Item or evidence of the Item being, or having been, in the course of post. A scan that includes the term
“shipment” signifies that the shipping document (or manifest) was scanned and does not indicate a scan recorded on the individual item.

---

Canada Post AND Ebay told me that I was in fact responsible for the package until it reaches its destination.

The original scan says: Item accepted at the Post Office

You can check the tracking number here:  CX540500445CA

Each package has its own label. If I bring in 2 packages, they will scan both of them. I bring them packages all the time and this never happened before. They scan it at the retail post office and then the next day it says process at the warehouse and then then next day item has left the country etc.....

I did not do anything different than I do every day (and same for the people at the counter....)

[ricarmic]

Kaymar: This is very interesting. I've lost packages that they have covered before, however they'd always shown at least one "item processed" before they were lost. It does seem very odd to me that my postmaster takes my package, scans it into their system, gives me a receipt with their tracking number and I'm still accountable until the first time it gets scanned in the nearest sorting centre?? I'm wondering if my situation is different from yours because I come with a stamped box and the receipt is created at the PO instead of using electronic shipping information as you did?

[pjcdn2005]

I really don't understand it then but just based on what they wrote in the letter to you, it sounds as if they are talking about a manifest being scanned, not a package. I can imagine how frustrating this has all been. It's a good thing that not many packages are lost.

[kaymar_88]

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@ricarmic wrote:
Kaymar: This is very interesting. I've lost packages that they have covered before, however they'd always shown at least one "item processed" before they were lost. It does seem very odd to me that my postmaster takes my package, scans it into their system, gives me a receipt with their tracking number and I'm still accountable until the first time it gets scanned in the nearest sorting centre?? I'm wondering if my situation is different from yours because I come with a stamped box and the receipt is created at the PO instead of using electronic shipping information as you did?

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I don't think it's different. If I had purchased the label at the retail Post office, they would have scanned it also. They are not debating the fact that I purchased a shipping label, they are saying that the fact that their employee scanned my package is no proof that I gave them the package.......

[kaymar_88]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

I really don't understand it then but just based on what they wrote in the letter to you, it sounds as if they are talking about a manifest being scanned, not a package. I can imagine how frustrating this has all been. It's a good thing that not many packages are lost.

---

But wait, I am online now with Canada Post to get a refund on my shipping label......

With my luck they will tell me that they cannot refund the label because it was used.....  🙂

[maxwar82]

Selling on ebay in Canada is very ingrate, for many reasons. Ebay being the worst of them.

Canada post is usually quite reliable, a shame this happened to you.

[kaymar_88]

The gift that keeps on giving....

Called Canada Post to get my shipping label refund, they tell me that PayPal should be refunding me....

Called PayPal, they tell me Canada Post should be refunding me....

Called Canada Post again, now they tell me Ebay should be refunding me....

Called Ebay and they say it is in their policy to NOT refund shipping labels...

There you go....

Goodnight everyone

[jt-libra]

Your experience has been a real eye opener!!  I'm sorry that this happened to you.

Like you, and presumably most other Canadian sellers, we believe that once the postal clerk scans our package and the website shows that the item was received at the Post Office, we are secure in the knowledge that Canada Post will reimburse us for the insured value of the item plus the postage if the delivery is not made.  It appears not.

I've had the odd occasion where nothing further appeared on the website after dropping it off at the P.O. until the item was actually delivered.  It did cause some worry until I was able to confirm its delivery.  However, again, I knew (or believed) I would get my money back if it didn't show up.

You've had both Canada Post and PayPal refuse to refund your postage and CP claims that a manifest was scanned, not the item.  This is truly a first.  Please keep us posted.  I'd be interested in knowing if the item is returned to you.

[ricarmic]

Kaymar: If you know your postmaster well, talk to them. In years gone by I have had problems with the CP 1-800 people and my local postmaster has jumped on the head office folks on my behalf and got it resolved in my favor. Having said this, I am in a wee village with a wee post office that very much appreciates us eBay folks that help keep it open.....you may not be as lucky but it is worth a try.....

[recped]

I don't know why Canada Post is confused.

The letter you received states: "When a delivery is picked up and a manifest is presented to the delivery agent"

Your package was not "picked up" you handed it to them at a retail counter.

Here's the scan to prove that

2015/03/03

08:58

LAVAL, QC

Item accepted at the Post Office

Call Canada Post and clearly explain that there is no manifest, it's a single item and if they actually look they can see the acceptance scan and nothing more.

If you get nowhere then contact the ombudsman's office.

Since the package was never scanned again it was either lost or stolen at the postal outlet or during the drive from where you dropped it off to the main sort facility.

[canadianonlinegoods]

As you can tell this account is new, but when I started selling,I used Canada Post here and there which was good for that time being. But than items started arriving late, no idea why, so I stopped using them to avoid messes like this. It depends,some of my items I ship Canada Post depending on the buyers destination. But I usually ship FedEx Ground or Express as I take advantage of their awesome discounted rates they provide and from the many packages I shipped with them, I have not had an issue so far( I am not looking forward to one either, so I hope all is well). I feel playing it safe with the major couriers like FedEx, UPS and Purolator(I've personally been using FedEx and Purolator for a long time) is always better than Canada Post, but don't get me wrong, the majority of the time Canada Post is on par but personally I do not like their service. Not like FedEx's lost or damaged claims are any better, as long as you package the items to their standards, it shouldn't be such a trouble for them to refund you whatever loss. Moving on to rates,If Expedited Parcel on avg to ship anywhere in Canada is around $13, I can ship via ground for around $15 or Express anywhere from $17-$20(of course weight changes rates, but I ship relatively small items). I am not too sure how much was paid for Expedited Parcel-USA, but I can ship something to the US up to 10LBS via FedEx International Economy-USA (AKA 2-day) for flat rate of $25, which is outstanding to the fact that the reg price for that service is over $75.I think its worth the extra couple of dollars, and most of the time I upgrade my domestic buyers shipping free of charge. My customers are more than happy when I upgrade them to FedEx because if I ordered something on eBay and I paid for Canada Post shipping and the buyer kindly upgraded me to FedEx or Purolator free of charge, I would be blown away. Like I stated before, I sometimes ship Canada Post but very rarely now. I shipped 5 packages one week, 2 of them xpresspost and 3 Expedited parcel.  One of the xpresspost packages arrived late, phoned up Canada Post and got my $12 reimbursement. One of the Expedited Parcels arrived late, got my $10 reimbursement, which kudos to the customer service. I know Canada Post is the cheapest but I'd spend a little more money to play it safe with the big boy couriers. I know this has no resolution to what you posted, but I just wanted to get this out there. I hope something gets done in your case! All the best!

[snidley7]

I had a nearly identical incident with CP losing a package after the initial scan. It happened last summer.
The only difference was that I used the priority overnight service to the U.S. I received a refund with no problem, so I am not sure why they would give you a hard time.

I also agree with the previous post that the couriour company's are giving pretty good discounts. I don't have large volumes but I can overnight small packages to the U.S. for under $24, making Expedited/xpresspost seem much less attractive.