For those who charge taxes, does your tax table look like this?

ProvinceSales Tax RateAlso charge sales tax on S & H
Alberta (AB):5%
British Columbia (BC):5%
Manitoba (MB):5%
New Brunswick (NB):15%
Newfoundland and Labrador (NL):15%
Northwest Territories (NT):5%
Nova Scotia (NS):15%
Nunavut (NU):5%
Ontario (ON):13%
Prince Edward Island (PE):15%
Quebec (QC):14.975%
Saskatchewan (SK):5%
Yukon (YT):5%
Message 1 of 33
latest reply
32 REPLIES 32

Re: For those who charge taxes, does your tax table look like this?

"Buyers always pay the GST or HST.."

 

That may be the case most of the times but not all the times.

 

Like many other GST/HST registered sellers with a large percentage of sales outside Canada, I did not charge GST/HST to any of my Canadian eBay buyers.  Period.  It was not included in my prices.

 

The tax that was absorbed was a marketing expense, part of the cost of doing business.  The same is true for "gifts" I included with all shipments for about twelve years.  They were a "marketing cost", part of the cost of doing business.

 

Now, one could say that all costs paid by sellers are eventually recovered in one form or another from buyers.  That is correct. But let's try to keep taxes properly accounted for.

 

Life is complicated enough as it is without adding complications by changing definitions.

Message 21 of 33
latest reply

Re: For those who charge taxes, does your tax table look like this?

I was following Pierre's example -- $1,800.00 in GST/HST paid out, minus tax payable (out of pocket) on Canadian sales ($200.00) = rebate of $1,600.00.  It does seem simple.  What am I missing?  

 

 

Perhaps we are just looking at this in two different ways. Using Pierre's numbers you will be paying that $1800 in taxes on goods you have purchased, ebay fees etc even if you do not register for gsp.  Yes you can claim that as expenses but claiming  $1800 in expenses against your income does not mean that you would get an extra $1600 back on your income tax.

 

By registering for gsp you would get $1600 of that $1800 back.  So by collecting and remitting $200 you get back $1600 that you wouldn't have gotten back otherwise.  I see that as a gain of $1600, not as a loss of $200. 

 

 

 

 

Message 22 of 33
latest reply

Re: For those who charge taxes, does your tax table look like this?

"  I see that as a gain of $1600, not as a loss of $200. "

 

That is basically what it is all about!

 

GST/HST registration pays, in many instances, even if the seller absorbs the tax on Canadian buyers.

Message 23 of 33
latest reply

Re: For those who charge taxes, does your tax table look like this?


@pjcdn2005 wrote:

I was following Pierre's example -- $1,800.00 in GST/HST paid out, minus tax payable (out of pocket) on Canadian sales ($200.00) = rebate of $1,600.00.  It does seem simple.  What am I missing?  

 

Perhaps we are just looking at this in two different ways. Using Pierre's numbers you will be paying that $1800 in taxes on goods you have purchased, ebay fees etc even if you do not register for gsp.  Yes you can claim that as expenses but claiming  $1800 in expenses against your income does not mean that you would get an extra $1600 back on your income tax.

 

By registering for gsp you would get $1600 of that $1800 back.  So by collecting and remitting $200 you get back $1600 that you wouldn't have gotten back otherwise.  I see that as a gain of $1600, not as a loss of $200.  

 


I think you've misunderstood what I was saying.  I was responding to your earlier question: "Why do you assume that you wouldn't get back all of it?  Do you think that you would collect and remit more in tax than what you now pay for your goods and supplies and what you will pay to eBay on your fees?", which seemed to suggest that you thought I expected to get all the GST/HST back.    

 

What I was saying all along is that I'd expect to get the bulk of it back from CRA, although not 100% because, like Pierre, I would plan to pay my Canadian buyers' tax for them, i.e. out of my own pocket.  

 

I didn't say I saw the whole picture from a loss point of view, simply that I could claim that small loss portion ($200 for example) against income.  Even though that expense claim wouldn't be equivalent to getting a direct $200 rebate from CRA, I'd rather claim it than lose it.  

 

It sounds as if Pierre simply absorbs the small amount of money he pays out for his Canadian buyers' tax as part of doing business, which is fine too.  Maybe I've got too much Scot in me to let it go entirely.  

Message 24 of 33
latest reply

Re: For those who charge taxes, does your tax table look like this?


@pierrelebel wrote:

 

 

Like many other GST/HST registered sellers with a large percentage of sales outside Canada, I did not charge GST/HST to any of my Canadian eBay buyers.  Period.  It was not included in my prices.

 

 


This is what I'd plan to do, thank you for mentioning it.  I assume that if a seller is going to register, the earlier in their fiscal year, the better?  

 

Unfortunately I've already purchased a lot of my raw materials this year, so I suppose I've lost the benefit of any HST I've paid on those.  On the other hand, I purchase mostly from the U.S. or overseas, and I don't often get "dinged" by CBSA for the HST anyway.  

 

I'm going to have to look at the recent Seller Update again to see when eBay is actually going to start collecting GST/HST on seller fees.  I imagine it would be wise to get registered before that date if I'm going to go ahead and do it. 

 

 

Message 25 of 33
latest reply

Re: For those who charge taxes, does your tax table look like this?

"... I could claim that small loss..."

 

The problem, the way I see it, is your misuse of the word "loss".  There is no loss.

 

For example if you buy an item for $10 + 15% HST (your total cost $11.50) and sell it to a buyer outside Canada for $20, you make a profit of $8.50 (not bad!)

 

If you are GST/HST registered, you buy the same item for $10 (forget the tax since you get it all back as ITC),  sell the item for $20, you now make a profit of $10 (better than $8.50)

 

So, for 80%-90% of your sales - made outside Canada - you end up ahead since you get back all the HST you paid on your purchases and expenses while not having to remit any on your export sales.

 

For the 10%-20% of your sales to Canadian buyers, the situation is different of course, but there is no "loss".  You still make a profit when selling your item for $20.  There is a slightly smaller profit if you absorb the tax on the item when sold to a Canadian buyer.

 

It is that simple.

 

PS - You may want to contact CRA and ask if you can make a retroactive claim on HST already paid on purchases made earlier this year.

Message 26 of 33
latest reply

Re: For those who charge taxes, does your tax table look like this?


@rose-dee wrote:


I think you've misunderstood what I was saying.  I was responding to your earlier question: "Why do you assume that you wouldn't get back all of it?  Do you think that you would collect and remit more in tax than what you now pay for your goods and supplies and what you will pay to eBay on your fees?", which seemed to suggest that you thought I expected to get all the GST/HST back.    

 

NO,  I was saying the total opposite.  You said that you would end up with a loss and I was basically asking why you would assume that because it's quite likely that you will end up ahead.

 

What I was saying all along is that I'd expect to get the bulk of it back from CRA, although not 100% because, like Pierre, I would plan to pay my Canadian buyers' tax for them, i.e. out of my own pocket.  

 

I didn't say I saw the whole picture from a loss point of view, simply that I could claim that small loss portion ($200 for example) against income.  Even though that expense claim wouldn't be equivalent to getting a direct $200 rebate from CRA, I'd rather claim it than lose it.  

 

Yes I know exactly what you were saying but that doesn't make it right.  It doesn't make sense to just look at one part of the picture because it all works together.   When you look at your busines for the year do you only look at your expenses?  Or do you look at what you made in the end...the profit less the  expenses?

 

When deciding whether to register for the gst you have to look at it in a in a similar manner.  If you are going to register and plan on taking the sales tax owed by buyers out of your profits you have to keep in mind that you will also be able get back sales taxes that you wouldn't normally get back had you not registered for the gst.  It's very possible that you will get back more than you pay out so why look at only what you pay out?  Ignoring that would be similar to saying you are not going to spend any more money on inventory because it cost money while ignoring the fact that you are going to make money on that inventory. 

 

It sounds as if Pierre simply absorbs the small amount of money he pays out for his Canadian buyers' tax as part of doing business, which is fine too.  Maybe I've got too much Scot in me to let it go entirely.  

 

No he was saying that in the end he comes out ahead, there is no loss to absorb. 


 

Message 27 of 33
latest reply

Re: For those who charge taxes, does your tax table look like this?


@pjcdn2005 wrote:

NO,  I was saying the total opposite.  You said that you would end up with a loss and I was basically asking why you would assume that because it's quite likely that you will end up ahead.

 

 

Huh?  You're not making much sense, and no need to shout at me in capitals.  I didn't say I'd end up with a loss, simply that I might not get every cent I'm entitled to from CRA.  

 

As Pierre said, I'd consider the tax paid by me on behalf of the few Canadian buyers I have as a marketing cost, and I might even be able to claim that cost somehow.  If anything, I'd be concerned about CRA seeing that as double-dipping.  

 

Pierre's comments above have completely clarified my situation, thank you. 

Message 28 of 33
latest reply

Re: For those who charge taxes, does your tax table look like this?


@pierrelebel wrote:

 


 

For the 10%-20% of your sales to Canadian buyers, the situation is different of course, but there is no "loss".  You still make a profit when selling your item for $20.  There is a slightly smaller profit if you absorb the tax on the item when sold to a Canadian buyer.

 

Yes, thank you, that's what I understood.  

 

 

PS - You may want to contact CRA and ask if you can make a retroactive claim on HST already paid on purchases made earlier this year.

 

Great suggestion, thanks for this.  

 

As you probably know, my main business is as a designer/manufacturer, so I almost never buy for resale anyway, only raw materials and supplies.  What you see on eBay is only about 1/4 of my activities, and I sell a variety of old stock here that I don't elsewhere only because I can qualify for TRS more easily that way. 

 

I've always been enough below the $30K radar to avoid having to register for GST and be burdened with the extra paperwork, etc.  However, with HST on eBay fees taken into account (and the HST I pay on things like Canada Post labels and various stationery supplies), it may now make a lot of sense to register, especially since I sell more than 90% to U.S. and international buyers. 

 

Thanks again for your input, it was very much appreciated! 

 

 

Message 29 of 33
latest reply

Re: For those who charge taxes, does your tax table look like this?

"Pierre's comments above have completely clarified my situation, thank you.  "

 

Thank you for your kind words but they appear to be undeserved.

 

"I might even be able to claim that cost somehow.  If anything, I'd be concerned about CRA seeing that as double-dipping.  "

 

That comment tells me I did not do such a great job explaining it.

 

There is no "cost" (or no "loss").  For tax purposes there is NOTHING to claim.

 

If GST/HST registered, on on hand you make a profit of $10 on exports and a smaller profit on Canadian sales by absorbing the GST/HST payable. Either way you make a profit.  There is nothing else to "claim".  There is no "double dipping".

 

Only profit.  And there is nothing wrong with that.

Message 30 of 33
latest reply

Re: For those who charge taxes, does your tax table look like this?

I didn't intead 2 capitalized letters to be be yelling. I was simply trying to emphasize that your interpretation of what I said was totally wrong.  Btw, I was trying to help as you seemed to be misinterpreting what Pierre was saying so I was trying to explain it in a slightly different way. Obviously it was a mistake for me to even try.

 

 

 

Message 31 of 33
latest reply

Re: For those who charge taxes, does your tax table look like this?

Hi Pierre - I may have misunderstood what you said but I called Revenu Quebec and they told me it doesn't matter where the items are shipped from and that since I'm based in Quebec with a QST number I needed to charge QST to Quebec buyers.

 

 

Also, will my tax table only come in effect when I relist all my listings?

I made a few sales in Canada and no tax appears to have been charged.

 

Thanks!

Message 32 of 33
latest reply

Re: For those who charge taxes, does your tax table look like this?

Since you ship from Ontario - not Quebec - you should contact CRA, not Revenue Quebec.

Message 33 of 33
latest reply