Hidden Secret about Ebay Managed Payment

[patphotog]

I have been on managed payment for about 2 months now and everything seems to be working fine for me except a few minor glitch here and there...but overall it was a seemless transition. Until the crap hit the fan. The infamous; buyer disputed the charge on their credit card; managed payment kryptonite. Here's the link if you want to read about it   https://www.ebay.ca/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes-managed-payments-seller?id=4...

Something paypal was dealing with swiftely becomes the seller problem with ebay managed payment. Ebay give you 2 options when someone disputed the charge or don't recognize the charge on their credit card; give the money back or contest their request (keep in mind...I have not done anyhting wrong here...uploaded the tracking number the following day the purchase was made...check...communicating with the buyer...check...left a positive feedback after payment...check). So I have decided to contest...ebay ask me to upload the tracking number...again...check. I even went further by contacting the buyer directly...I thing the buyer is playing dumb by not knowing what I was talking about (disputing the charge on their credit card)...it went back and forth with the buyer and called ebay to upload the conversation in the dispute with the credit card company...which apparently they did on my request. According to some horror story on You Tube...the chance for the seller to win is about 10%...evethough you have not done ANYTHING WRONG. The only sellers to get justice in this process are the one with a You Tube channel...bad publicity is tough for ebay. By the way...did I mention it will cost you an extra $20 deducted to your managed payment account as a fee for contesting the buyers request. This charge is on top of the full refund amount requested by the buyer. Again something Paypal will never do to you. Ebay wanted to get back into the managed payment business but don't want to wear the big boy pants. Buyer/Scammer are starting to use this loop hole in the system...seller BEWARE.

[patphotog]

Here's what the email look like...

[femmefan1946]

You are in Managed Payments

A customer filed a credit card chargeback.

You were given two choices"

refund

dispute the chargeback

You chose the latter and uploaded your tracking number.

Has eBay or MP made any decision at this point?

EBay charges $20 to dispute chargebacks.

So did Paypal . There have been many complaints about this on dotCOM.
However, it is my understanding that members are only charged if the seller loses the dispute. tyler@ebay  can you confirm?

You saw a YT video that upset you.

Don't watch YT videos, there is no reason to count on their reliability since there is no "gatekeeper" for them.

Please keep us businbodies Boardies up to date when something actually happens.

MP is very new and we have seen almost nothing about how disputes are actually handled.

[patphotog]

No update yet on the "dispute".

Keep in mind that I am all for "Money Back Gauarantee" but by going through their Credit Card and rising a bogus dispute like the one "not recognizing the charge" they are bypassing the seller protection program. Not only I will have to refund in full + $20.00 fee , I will also lose the item already shipped to the buyer. Maybe you should watched some YT videos yourself before defending the integrity of the Ebay platform...do not worry about me being upset or happy...just make sure you're not waving your Ebay ponpon while answering a legitimate concern.

[pjcdn2005]

That is the same as an unuthorized paymend dispute that we used to get on Paypal.  All you need to win that is to provide proof of delivery with a tracking number to show that the buyer received the product. Regardless of what decision the credit card makes, ebay should cover you.   When you were dealing with PP a dispute like that needed proof of shipment or delivery to win, with MP it is proof of delivery but it sounds like you already have that.

If you do have proof of delivery and they rule against you, contact ebay cs on FB as you shouldn't lose or be charged the $20.

I'm curious...how is this a 'hidden secret' when all of the info is in the Managed Payment info pages?

I was going to post the info about charges not recognized but the forum isn't letting me post it but it is there on the link that you posted.

[pjcdn2005]

@femmefan1946 

The $20 fee is charged if you dispute the charge and lose.

[femmefan1946]

Yes.

I've been having problems with posting, I occasionally write a post (and always loooooong and overly detailed) which then neither posts nor is auto-saved.
I did have that in my first attempt, but missed it on the rewrite.

[patphotog]

We will see if all you need is a proof of delivery...I'am putting up to test...I guess.

But how does it become my problem when the buyer "does not recognize the transaction"...does it means the buyer look at his credit card invoice and see a charge of $17.89 from Amsterdam02451 and then contest it...we all know that ebay purchase on a credit card invoice it's not always clear...even myself will contest the charge with a name like that on a invoice. My case involve a buyer who "does not recognize the transaction"; the way I see it Ebay should just forward the information; which they already have (tracking number; date of purchase; transaction number...) to the credit card company without involving the seller which, lets be clear, does not have access to the buyer credit card. Ebay make me feel that I'am charging someone credit card without his consent...and the burden of the proof is on me that I did sell something to this person. Disputing the charge is the only way to go when you have done everything by the book but relying on ebay's fairness in this case is a leap that I'm not ready to take...will see...I'll keep you updated.

[pjcdn2005]

 They do goof up sometims in their decisions but since this is one  situation where everything is written in black and white you should win in the end.  Yes it would be nice if we didn't have to deal with it all but better than that then not being covered at all.

Did you contact your buyer? From what I've read buyers basically see ebay on their statement, not the seller's name or item and they may have forgotten about the purchase. Or in some cases when there is a suspicious charge, the bank will question all transactions made about that time.   There probably are buyers who are trying to be dishonest but there are also ones who aren't. 

[femmefan1946]

The system appears to be that the address from the tracking number is compared to the address of the complainant.

If they match, the decision is for the seller, in the belief that the complainant was mistaken.

As pj says, the vagueness of "ebay" as the source is going to be an ongoing problem. I hope that eBay/Managed Payments corrects that so that the address becomes "eBay/femmefan1946" which would be more helpful.

I once challenged a cc payment to a number, which turned out to be the corporate number of a shoe store. Perfectly valid, but there would have been no challenge if they had used the store name instead.  Poorly thought through.

There is no charge if the seller wins the dispute.

[ricarmic]

I have had situations where "unauthorized" etc transactions happen because when the buyer flags one transaction, the credit card flags ALL transactions as unauthorized. I know this because I've talked with the buyers directly on the phone, they're as upset as I am because they are now having problems regarding all the other unquestioned transactions being "unauthorized"/flagged and getting followed up/harassed by folks for them.

Chargebacks are almost always a pain. I'm fortunate because so far I've had great buyers, the last one even paid me back the $20 charge on top of what was disputed (in his case he used his expired card by accident - I still remember the "conversation" between him and his wife (in the background) when I was on the phone with him!)

[marnotom!]

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@ricarmic wrote:

(in his case he used his expired card by accident. . .)

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Sorry to get off-topic here, but how is that even possible?  Surely that would have been flagged by the payment processor at the time of payment.

[patphotog]

Just a quick update

The buyer admitted having received the music CD yesterday after requesting politely they should contact the credit card company to resolve the issue with the disputed charge. The conversation has been saved and reported to ebay customer service in regard to my case. It seems to be a close case in my favor but you never know. If some buyer are starting to dispute the charges with their credit card until they received the goods we are up for a tough ride especially if you ship without tracking...ie : lettermail.

[blackranda2]

Bingo!  Guess you are not one of the lucky ones after all. This is another scary story. I have heard quite a few now and am sure there are lots more out there. Starting to feel a bit sick to the stomach.

Hang in there! Really hope this works out for you. Please keep us posted.

[femmefan1946]

Most Canadian sellers will use LetterMail if possible because most people are honest, LetterMail is fast and cheap, and tracking is very very expensive.

Most *Parcel rates are tracked so the question does not come up there.

Sellers who do this, and I am one, compare the cost of tracking hundreds of packages to the cost of losing a single Not Received dispute.

Many sellers use Cookie Jar Insurance, which is just dropping some virtual pennies or dimes into a virtual Cookie Jar for every sale, and using that money as a self-insurance policy to cover those occasional problems.

I believe the retail industry standard for losses due to shoptheft**, damage, etc is about one per cent.

If you have more than one in one hundred sales going bad, you have a big problem and it might not be with your customers.

* But not Small Packet USA. There is a workaround if you are brave.

** False Not Received disputes would be shoptheft.

[tyler@ebay]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

You are in Managed Payments

A customer filed a credit card chargeback.

You were given two choices"

refund

dispute the chargeback

You chose the latter and uploaded your tracking number.

Has eBay or MP made any decision at this point?

EBay charges $20 to dispute chargebacks.

So did Paypal . There have been many complaints about this on dotCOM.
However, it is my understanding that members are only charged if the seller loses the dispute. tyler@ebay  can you confirm?

You saw a YT video that upset you.

Don't watch YT videos, there is no reason to count on their reliability since there is no "gatekeeper" for them.

Please keep us businbodies Boardies up to date when something actually happens.

MP is very new and we have seen almost nothing about how disputes are actually handled.

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Hi @femmefan1946 - yes, there are some protections for sellers in dispute situations. This page has the most detail, though there's also some mention of them in the payments terms of use page (Section 7).

Thanks!

[teenytrinkets]

Hi @patphotog

Can you update us to let us know if you were charged the $20 fee just to challenge this payment dispute?

I'm in the same boat - my buyer agreed she was hasty in opening up a SNAD payment dispute after I contacted her, and agreed to cancel it. Only, I have 3 business days to respond to the dispute that won't be resolved and release held funds for 90 days...

[maximus7001]

What ended up happening with this?

[museumrarities]

Have you ever gone through one of these?  tracking means nothing when its an item not as described

[patphotog]

I won and the fund was released. It took 30 days to have this resolved. Again; the buyer raised an issue with her credit card "does not recognize the charge". I uploaded the tracking number (Small packet USA) and cross my fingers...it worked. Fund was release after 30 days and no extra fees ($20) has been charged to my account. The $20 fees is charge to you if you lose the case.